More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer" (1 Viewer)

[Scooter]

According to this link:

Toshiba XD-E500 Upconverting DVD Player Released Today - VideoHelp.com

The machines are now in stores.

 

[Jari K]

Upscaling DVD (/Blu-ray)-players compared to non-upscaling players? Or..?

I guess most new(er) DVD/Blu-ray-players now upscale, but some do a better job of this than others. It´s also part of the "marketing hype", so don´t believe every marketing slogan. Wait for the reviews, etc.

 

[Jari K]

From the Scooter´s link (actually: Toshiba XD-E500 Upconverting DVD Player Announced )...

"Toshiba today announces its new video enhancement technology for DVD with the introduction of the XD-E500. XDE, or "eXtended Detail Enhancement," is more than just DVD upconversion. XDE takes DVD picture quality to a whole new level. In addition to providing upconversion from 480i/p up to 1080p, XDE offers user selectable picture enhancement modes that allow for greater detail, more vivid colors and stronger contrast that bring standard DVD quality closer to the HD experience. XDE technology lets consumers enjoy their existing DVD libraries in a whole new way."

Other quotes ("XDE"):
Note: Please still read the whole link - these are just quotes..

**"Sharp Mode offers improved detail enhancement that is one step closer to high definition. Edges are sharper and details in movies are more visible. Unlike traditional sharpness control, XDE technology analyzes the entire picture and adds edge enhancement precisely where it's needed."

Wow. "Adds edge enhancement precisely where it's needed".

**"Color Mode makes the colors of nature stand out with improved richness. Blues and greens are more vivid and lifelike. Color Mode combines the improvement in color with the detail enhancement of Sharp Mode and is ideal for outdoor scenes."

Wow. "Ideal for outdoor scenes".

**"Contrast Mode is designed to make darker scenes or foregrounds more clearly visible without the typical "washing out" that can occur with traditional contrast adjustment. Recommended for dark scenes where detail may be difficult to notice, Contrast Mode is also combined with Sharp Mode to provide a clearer viewing experience.

Wow. "Recommended for dark scenes".

Sorry, but I just find this rather funny. And I just mentioned "marketing slogans".. Well, interesting to read proper reviews...

Some specs also here:
http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/dvd/prod...?model=xd-e500

 

[Nick Martin]

Yes, I'm wondering if upconverting DVD players are really all that much better than a basic DVD player, because I have no experience with them.

I have a simple, inexpensive Panasonic DVD-S43 connected to my 42" and that gives me a great picture, so that's why I am so interested in an upconverting player because I'm getting something great as it is and can only get better from here, I hope.

 

[Jari K]

This is going OT soon, I guess, but... Is your TV "HDTV"? If yes, then your TV-set is doing the upscaling (since your DVD-player can´t). Most people prefer these stand-alone players (with this I mean both DVD and Blu-ray, since Blu-ray-player also upscales SD DVDs) when it comes to upscaling, since they´re usually doing a better job.

Main point: With HDTV, upscaling is unavoidable. If your DVD-player won´t upscale, the HDTV eventually will (to its "native resolution", 1080i, 1080p..). So you kinda have to figure out, which one (DVD/Blu-ray-player or TV) does a better job with upscaling.. Usually stand-alone player, I guess.

If your TV is NOT "HDTV" (=it´s normal TV, with standard resolution), then you don´t need any "upscaling" for SD DVDs.

More info e.g. here:
Video scaler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Nick Martin]

My TV does 1080i, not 1080p. HD cable looks great, standard TV looks like garbage (as it always does on HDTVs) and I guess I will have to just wait and see what the consensus is about this specific XDE player, and if it's any better than the cheaper upconverters out there.

I've seen exactly one upconverting DVD player, and regardless of the setting, the image looked the same. I demo'ed an LG model and spent more than an hour with it, tweaking the player and the TV itself (not my TV, this was in a store I worked in for a few months) and it never improved.

Contrast that with all these opinions about a brand name player called "Oppo" and how great it is compared to other brand players, and it just gets more and more complicated.

 

[Jari K]

My personal opinion is, that if you´re looking for a new "upscaling" player (and you already have a "HDTV"), it´s best to get a Blu-ray-player. They also play and upscale SD DVDs. Then you´ve both formats.

DVD players are of course cheaper, but that would be the only real reason to choose DVD-player over Blu-ray-player now.. IMO. Quality (upscaling) is of course important subject, but e.g. PS3 has almost "reference quality" when it comes to upscaling, if you ask me. So Blu-ray-players are doing a pretty good job with that department.

 

[Nick Martin]

Oh, if it weren't for all the veterinary bills for my two Schnoodles I'd have a PS3 in a split second.

 

[Tim Glover]

Interesting thread and that interests me. I will admit having a soft spot for Toshiba.

...but I do agree this technology would be FANTASTIC in a Blu-ray player. Because lets face it, most if not all Blu-ray players are rather poor at dvd playback. And for the record, I've owned the Sony S1, s300, s500, Panasonic BD30 and my current player is the Sony ES2000-to me the most elegant and best Blu-ray player.

All wonderful with Blu-rays but lacking with sd-dvd. I use my Toshiba A-35 that utilizes the underrated Anchor Bay chip. Much better at dvd playback on my rig...

I still might bite on this but I really don't want to invest in any machine that 'just' does sd-dvd. I've only bought 2 sd-dvds since April 2006! and truthfully I seem to only watch HD-DVD or Blu-ray these days.

Toshiba really needs to just hunker down and develop a Blu-ray player that incorporates this new sd-dvd improvment.

I think most of us are looking for that player that can do both formats well.

 

[Alfonso_M]

The other BIG --HUGE IMO---reason to consider (up-converting players) is whether one is willing to fork out around $30.00 for a Blu Ray title (or spent half a day constantly searching for online deals if any ) that's available many times at retail shops for less than half the Blu ray price.

Well mastered up-converted SD-DVD look superb in both my HI-DEF screens, and although my HD-DVD versions look better, definitely not TWICE as good to justify paying TWICE as much for the Blu Ray title.

And as far as Audio, …...unless you have the hearing of Bats and/or are willing to invest on the latest flavor of Hi-FI gear and engage in extravagant setups, Dolby 5.1 (or 7.1) and DTS is more than enough for mere mortals…. and it has been for 10 years now.

 

[FrancisP]

Why is Toshiba not interested in blu-ray? Blu-ray won only because Sony paid off more studios than Toshiba. Sony had to give away blu-ray players as premiums to get sales up. Toshiba came to the conclusion that the public was not interested in hd media. A number of surveys indicate that people are satisfied with dvd. This is just a extension of upconverting dvd players. Upconverting dvd players started around $125 when they first came out.

 

[Scott-S]

Blu-ray discs are not $30. Even the most expensive ones are $28. DVDs are not $15. They are are about $5 less than Blu.

Example: (Amazon)

Iron Man Blue Ray (Two-Disc Special Collectors' Edition) = $27.95
Iron Man DVD (Two-Disc Special Collectors' Edition) = $22.99

This is the typical pricing trends. How is this "Twice" the price for Blu-Ray?

Very soon a Blu-Ray player will be able to be purchased for $199. This fancy edge enhancing SD-DVD player of toshiba's is $149.

Isn't it worth $50 extra to get a blu-ray player?

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

I guess "TWICE as good" is kinda relative (in practice anyway). In my experience so far, the PQ leap from a good quality DVD to a good quality BD viewed on a >=50" 16x9 display is very much comparable to the PQ leap from a "good" quality VHS tape to a good quality DVD viewed on a 32" 4x3 TV.

The key is that HDM let's you view a substantially larger picture than DVD w/out the apparent softness (and lack of details) of blowing up the image significantly impacting your experience. That plus you do get various other PQ improvements like higher color fidelity.

Of course, if your display setup (including viewing distance) for DVDs does not at all seem soft or lacking in details (or show a good deal of issues like compression artifacts and/or upconversion artifacts), then you'll obviously see a lot less benefit than someone else w/ a setup that reveals the various relative weaknesses of DVD more, eg. bigger screen, shorter viewing distance, etc.

_Man_

 

[Alfonso_M]

Let me know when that happens for 2.0 players, and even then, if the price of software doesn't drop to DVD levels, Blu Ray is in for a Bumpy ride.....as you can see already.

 

[Jari K]

Ah, the good-old "price debate".. And the old anti-BD forces are also back.


There´s always PS3.. Great upscaling. I´m not really familiar with the other players (based on the reports, BD50 is a bit lacking vs PS3 - when it comes to upscaling)..

 

[Scott-S]

Why are you comparing the Edge Enhancing player with a Profile 2.0 BR player?

I am saying that if someone that was willing to buy the toshiba, could pay a little more and get a BR player. Sure, not a top of the line BR player, but at least one that can play BR discs.

I guess this is all moot. If someone likes watching thier SD-DVDs with even more edge enhancement, they probably wont appreciate the HD picture from a Blu-ray disc anyway.

This new player reminds me of those large Magnifying lenses they used to sell to put in front of your small tv to give you a "Big screen TV". LOL

 

[Jari K]

In some ways, this player could be the last DVD-player that reaches to real "headlines". I still doubt, that it´s making any real difference to anything.

 

[frankie108]

I suspect that these new Toshiba machines will be discounted dramatically over the up coming holidays and retail for less than $99. Just a guess.
I like Toshiba and would have no hesitation what-so-ever in buying any of their products.
This new player must upconvert SD DVD discs "better" than the HD DVD players that preceded it, or why release this product in the first place???

 

[Jari K]

I´m afraid the "business side" doesn´t really work like that. Before any official (and non-biased) reviews/tests/etc, this player is like any other out there with fancy marketing slogans and new "technical terms" (this time it´s "XDE - eXtended Detail Enhancement"). So, I guess we find out when the first reviews are available. Until then, NOTHING is "better".

 

[Lew Crippen]

Is is not time to let go Francis? Whining is never attractive. And if you continue to choose to whine, at least post something more factual than Sony paying off studios (something that I think no one can determine one way or the other).

And just suppose that Sony and Blu-Ray are evil incarnate--it makes not difference. The race is over. There is no court of appeals that will bring back HD DVD.

Time to let go.