Monthly Post: How do YOU know what cables to buy? (1 Viewer)

[Parker Clack]

I liken good video and audio cables to glasses and hearing aides.

For people that have never used either, but need to, once they get them the difference is profound.

Cables are aides to your system. If you really care about how your video collection looks on your monitor and audio collection is reproduced out of your speakers investing in good audio and video cables is a must.

So like a hearing aide or a pair of glasses you will never know what you have been missing until you try them out.

Parker

 

[videobruce]

Fine and dandy, but you still don't know what you are getting without cutting open a cable and looking!

 

[Marti D.]

I have to chime in..
You are right not to put the cheapest cable one can find into your system, however to pay $600 plus on speaker cables is nuts! A very sharp Engineer once told me "remember the wire is attached to an Amp that has gold traces the width of a dime"! If you know what the sound for example goes through BEFORE you get it at home on a DVD, you'd laugh at spending a ton of money on cables. People on the Pro end of things are arguing about A/D and D/A converters, sampling rates and DAW's and their sound on the product. Don't become paranoid about all the hype, learn to listen in a room that is calibrated for both Sound and Picture and enjoy!! Spend your money on the DVD's and going to the Theater. Read up and learn!

 

[Lam Nguyen]

My thought on cables,
Two things that make the most difference to me in cables is the wire gauge and the difference between silver and copper.
I never heard any difference from oxygen free copper versus regular copper given that they are the same gauge and same type of construction. There are also no diffence heard between 99.9% copper and 99.999% copper.
Thicker gauge cables generally give more bass but the bass is not as controlled. If the gauge is too small you lose soundstage and the system sounds closed-in and lifeless.

Do this experiment and draw your own conclusion. Buy a roll of thin insulated magnet wire from Radio Shack (around $2.50)cut the wires into four pieces and use them as speaker cables (2 pieces for each speaker). You will hear a very noticeable difference from the thick cables you're use to especially in the lower region. Do not use a subwoofer on this experiment.

 

[videobruce]

The only thing worse then paying BIG bucks for cables you have no idea guage they are is buying ink jet cartridges from the printer manufacture!

But the stores love them:

GROSS PROFIT MONSTERS!! (a favorite expression from a store manager I worked for)

 

[peter m. wilson]

Hi

Inner Ear Magazine (Canadian) is one of the few I've seen that not only feels its qualified to review cables/wire/cord, I think their survival depends on it. If you Google it you'll see what I mean.

They devote quite a bit of space in the current issue reviewing Nordost with per meter pricing.
Although my perception of their phraseologys is not unique to them there is a great deal of what I've generally lumped into the category of "Seemingly vague, but Actually meaningless", although their goal is the contrary.

I'm definitely not suggesting that Nordost doesn't make excellent products. I just don't happen to be important enough or my ears sophisticated enough to own any.

My system has 10 speakers plugged into it including the sub. I use 5 plus the sub for music and when it comes to film, they all get a chance to contribute.

In order to have the 6 rears plugged in, the speaker cable does alot of meandering along the baseboards and around door frames and the like and due to the number of speakers, repeats that path 3 times. I therefore try and use as flat a cable as possible for the sake of neatness.

I lust over those Nordost cables (not because of their quality) because their so darn flat.

Perhaps due to the fact that the longest run from the reciever are the rears, the cables should probably be the highest guage (thickest,"maybee I should say lowest guage")
but there the thinest available in long rolls, whereas the fronts are bi-wired with thinner going to the tweeter and thickest going to the wooffer. I think their all Monster Cable and everything sounds great to me and anyone whose been in my media room, (and is hopefully being candid).

There are probably those who will read this and suggest that I don't know what I'm missing, so be it.

I use 5 Totem Model 1 speakers for music and NHT SUB II and have over 170 HIREZ discs which I play through a Denon 5800/03, (has 2 sets of analog ins) and mltidisc entry level sacd and dvd-a players.

My feeling about bass management for music is that its a tempest in a teapot and you've probably gotten the gist of my philosophy by now, but just in case I'll spell it out.

I listen to music, not my equipment, and deffinitely not my cables.

Peter m.

 

[Dave Nibeck]

Clint, let me start by saying I am a subscriber to your magazine and really enjoy it. I also understand that you, as many other magazines, receive a lot of advertisment dollars from cable companies.

The cable debate is very old and full of truths, myths, and marketing hype. If you really wanted to stir things up a bit, how about devoting some tests using the scientific method? Set up a couple of double blind tests. Gather test audiences that range from classical musicians and professional video people to joe 6p's. The truth is out there.

 

[Trevin Chow]

this is a very interesting thread. I'm a HT newbie and am about to buy a Denon 3803 with an M&K 5 speaker setup (K7 and K4) with either an SVS, Hsu or Velodyne subwoofer.

I have 2 rear speakers (M&K K4s) that need to have flat wiring run to it as the wires will need to be run under an area rug in the middle of my living room. This saves me from having to run the cables through the walls, or worse, run along the baseboards.

Most "flat" speaker cable I've seen is 16ga with a few companies that have 12ga.... if anyone has any tips!

 

[Dave Nibeck]

Trevin, not sure on the load of the K4's but with 16g wire, your maximum workable length should probably be 40 to 50 feet.

 

[Clint Walker]

Hey Gang,
I sure have had a good time reading through all the posts to this thread. It seems to be never ending--and such is the debate between aftermarket cables versus "stock" cables.
To the gentleman that stated he listens to music, not his equipment and not his cables--I say then you've never really heard your music.
This all comes down to that of resolution on both audible and visual planes. How important is resolution to YOU?
If I was to go buy recent CEA sales figures I would say that most consumers don't give a hoot about high fidelity sound anymore. Everything today is focused on High Def Video. And more and more consumers are apt to go out and drop 3 to 10 times as much on video equipment as they are audio. How quickly we forget that the video industry was born of the audio industry.
Back in the day I worked at a small little home theater shop right around the time that Laser Discs were the rage and we were hearing rumors about DVD.
My buddies and I would spend our time debating on what speaker or amp was better than another and so on. One day we cut open the three "levels" of Monster Cable RCA's -I think Interlink 200, 400 and 500? Anyway, we connected them up and did double blind fold testing over "stock" cables. Unequivocally we all noticed a tremendous improvement from stock to Interlink 200 and very subtle difference between the 400 and 500. We determined that not only were cables critical, but that the "middle of the road" proved to be the best value--at least in that Monster line. I have been sold on cables ever since.
Truth is, I really don't care what "gauge" the wire is...nor the "specs" of the cable itself. I care about the end result. Period.
Likewise, I will not argue that cable manufacturers spend money with us. But the truth is, I don't support cable because we get ad dollars. I support cables because I believe it represents an improvement in your home theater experience. I would not cover them otherwise. At the end of the day, cable ad dollars represent about 2% of our total revenue--and even if it represented 50% I would call it boguss if I thought it was. (51% however...?)
The kicker here is that cables are the easiest component to "rent" to conduct independent evaluations. I say "buy 'em and try 'em" and tell me that I'm wrong.
Making the statement, "cable is cable" is just plain ignorant. That would be like saying an 100-watt amplifier cannot be any better sounding than any other 100-watt amplifier no matter what materials they use.
I use my 57 year old father-in-law as the perfect example of how important cables are. He wanted a sound system "just like mine." (Who wouldn't? ) And so being the great son-in-law and cheapskate that I am I replaced the RCA's between his CD player and receiver and also upgraded his speaker wires.
The man swears to this day that I installed new speakers. He and my mother-in-law listen to the same CD's every day of their life for the past 6 years (sad, but true) and they sat in their living room in awe of their cheap stereo. Argue the point of diminishing returns all you want...it cost me all but $40 to introduce them to high-fidelity.
Guys, this isn't about ad-dollars. It's not about snake oil. It's about getting the best out of your system plain and simple. Your feedback is my reward and that is the truth.

 

[Trevin Chow]

Trevin, not sure on the load of the K4's but with 16g wire, your maximum workable length should probably be 40 to 50 feet.

Dave, the M&K K7 and K4 are both 4ohm speakers. So I'd be running five 4ohm speakers off of the Denon 3803.

The distance between where the receiver would go and my rear speakers (the K4's) is 11'. So I expect I'd need about 20' for each speaker. Will 16ga flatwire should be okay for my application?

 

[Dave Nibeck]

At 4 ohms you should be good to 20-25 feet.

 

[Trevin Chow]

At 4 ohms you should be good to 20-25 feet.

Awesome, now the next question is related by newbie-ness to HT. With flat speaker cable, how do you connect speaker ends to it to plug into the speakers and receiver? It looks like the wire is completely flat making hooking up things like banana plugs impossible. Am i missing something?

Keep in mind I know nothing about HT cables. All I know right now is I need flat speaker wire to go to my surround speakers, and 16ga for the front speakers too, but can probably get away with soundking wire from partsexpress.com. As for connectors I have no idea.

 

[peter m. wilson]

Hi,
I'm going to jump back into this discussion even though I still don't think that $1000.00 a meter cables sound better than $100.00 a meter cables, the area that I feel absolutly should not be scrimped on are your connectors.

I would have preferred spades but unfortuneately neither my Denon or my Totems accept them. If your situation is similar I would suggest excellent quality banana plugs. The type that locks well and easily allows you to keep any bare wire from being exposed. I use some from Monster which are about $10.00 a piece at Best Buy but There are several makers and I'm sure their will be no shortage of suggestions. Again, my preference would be spades if possible.

Peter m.

 

[Clint Walker]

Hi Peter. I feel that your statement is completely unqualified. First, I don't know that this discussion was about $100 per meter cables versus $1000 per meter cables. Second, you don't "think" they do sound any better or it your experience after listening to every $1000 per meter cable made?

This discussion was never about price. Every member of the HTF spends his or her money at whatever ratio they feel is worth the amount of performance delivered for a given product. Comparing $1000 per meter cables to $100 per meter cables is apples to oranges.

 

[peter m. wilson]

Clint,
You told me on page 1 if I wasn't listening to my cables I couldn't hear my music. How in the world would you know what the music in my room with my equipment sounds like? I'm glad to hear the members of HTF buy eqiupment according to their means.That makes them unique.

You may get wired over cables but your are right about asking me if I had heard every $1000 a meter cable.

Are you suggesting there's more than one?

Peter m.

 

[Clint Walker]

Actually Peter, that is not what I said. Quote: "To the gentleman that stated he listens to music, not his equipment and not his cables--I say then you've never really heard your music."

What I mean is that if you have not invested in any aftermarket cables, then you have never heard the full potential of your recordings. That is in direct response to your statement: "I listen to music, not my equipment, and definitely not my cables."