Meet Me in St. Louis (1 Viewer)

[Martin Teller]

Why are you responding to a 4 year old thread?

 

[Edward Weinman]

Now that's funny!...(sorry, no offense intended.)

 

[Malcolm R]

Why not? There's no moratorium on thread age, is there? Dennis Nicholls revives years old threads all the time.

I've watched quite a few more classic films since I first posted in this thread, and have found quite a few that I enjoyed. Still haven't re-watched MMISL yet, though.

 

[Jeffrey Nelson]

I think I should chime in here and say that MEET ME IN ST. LOUIS was based on a series of memoirs written as short stories by Sally Benson...not sure how much was fancified, and I'm no expert in turn-of-the-century middle-class conduct, but the behavior of the characters in that setting rang true to me. As for the ghastly children...well, children get up to even worse things these days, don't they?

Also, why would anyone buy so many movies that they've never seen? RENT RENT RENT them first, or your wallet will be sorry.

 

[David_B_K]

Besides, if you had started a new thread, you would almost certainly get a lot of "use the search function/how many threads on this do we need" posts.

It's a shame that MMISL would appear hopelessly dated. Part of its charm when it was released was that it was paying homage to a period that was itself hopelessly dated by the time of the 1940s. I guess I am fortunate in that I was brought up on classic films, so that the acting of those films does not really bother me. In fact, I find it refreshing that I almost never miss a line of dialog due to mumbling or some other naturalistic affectation.

 

[Rob_Ray]

That's another thing I love about classic films. They are a window to another era. And films like MMISL are windows into two eras: the one being depicted and the one in which it was made.

The Hallowe'en sequence in MMISL is obviously culled from Sally Benson's own childhood. Nobody could make up things like bonfires in the street without depicting the parents in a panic unless such things occurred. I do know from my own parents' tales of growing up in the Depression that the whole idea of "Trick or Treat" was started around the time of this film specifically because Halloween was a traditional night of hooliganism.

One way in which the film is a window to the 1940s is in the musical arrangements. That "Skip to My Lou" arrangement is pure 1940s although the song itself goes back to way before the turn of the century.

 

[nancoiski]

Originally Posted by John Whittle

These were done years before the "wet-gate technique" which was a major Technicolor project. Henry Imus who was one of the guys in the Research Department (and I later met at Movielab) held several patents on the wet-gate process. But it came forty years too late to "fix" this problem in MMISL.

Mr. Whittle,

I wanted to send a personal message regarding Henry Imus, but the site requires that I first post something. Being out of my league, here, this will be my post. I am sorry for taking up space in the forum.

 

[jim_falconer]

Originally Posted by Malcolm R

I'm beginning to think that me and classic films don't mix.

Bought this blind and watched for the first time ever last night. Really found it very syrupy and melodramatic, not to mention being irritated by the endlessly annoying "theme song" which seemed to have only one verse that was sung over, and over, and over, and over... (the one thing I agreed with Father about, see below).

Some other issues:

1. All the middle-aged actors trying, and failing miserably, to portray high school/college age kids. (EDIT: A little additional research shows JG was 22 which is not too bad, but she looked older. The rest were all mid-late 20's...a little long in the tooth for their characters).

2. Esther practically on the verge of picking out a china pattern for marriage to a man she's not only never yet met, but only known the existence of for 3 weeks.

3. The Halloween scene. I guess I have to take back my comments about how kids today are so much worse than they used to be. What a horrible bunch of brats. Why are they allowed to have this huge bonfire in the street? Where are they getting all the stuff they're burning? Throwing flour in people's faces (flour provided by their parents/maid no less) and yelling "I hate you!"? I'd never heard of such a thing before, but would advocate horsewhipping within an inch of their life any child who acted so maliciously.

4. Zero consequences for Tootie's continuous lying, foul mouth, and temper tantrums. This kid should have been spanked hourly.

5. The Imperious, Dictatorial father figure. Makes rash decisions that destroy the lives of nearly a dozen people then wonders why he's not kept "in the loop" on other issues. Can't postpone his precious bath for one evening to accomodate an important event in his child's life? Ooops, that's right, he didn't know about it (because the family knew how he'd react anyway and were trying to avoid the "iron fist").

6. The nonsensical "change of mind" at the end. When the father first made his announcement, he had tears and protests from the entire family. But little Tootie throwing yet another tantrum on Christmas Eve, after the house is already packed up, is the catalyst that finally changes his mind?

7. Early reinforcement that only the pretty, popular people should be respected (some think this is a modern day issue, apparently not) when, in what they think is a colossal joke, Esther and Rose fill a rival's dance card with "nerds" and "fatties."

8. Probably due to age, but there was a "pulsating" of the colors noticeable at several points. One scene Esther's face went from pink to pale to pink to pale to pink....

I've been trying to broaden my horizons by blind buying lots of classic films, but as I watch more and more of them, I'm beginning to think perhaps I should set a moratorium on classic films. :frowning:

Others I've watched recently:

All About Eve
Sunset Boulevard
Grand Hotel
Some Like it Hot

I'm not sure I could say I enjoyed any of them, but they're probably in order of descending enjoyment.

I still have most of the Fox classics, lots of Warner classics, and the Film Noir box set (just ordered days ago) to be watched (all blind buys). I'm not exactly looking forward to them. :frowning:

Malcolm - I could not agree with you more. I watched this film for the first time on TCM recently, and wondered why it is considered such a classic. Absolutely nothing was happening in the first 45 minutes. I'm waiting for some type of story to start playing out, but nothing ever does. And I felt the same way about the points you listed. In the middle of a neighborhood residential street, kids are having a barn fire, with what looks like tables and chairs. The film really started losing me at that point.

And all this coming from someone who is a HUGE fan of not only classic films, but musicals too.

 

[Matt Hough]

The film is depicting a time closer to the 19th century than the 21st, so a little deference to a difference in outlook and attitude is needed. The film was based on the reminiscences of Sally Benson, so if bonfires were built on Halloween night in the middle of the street using discarded furniture, one should understand how different things were back then and take her at her word (I never threw flour in the faces of people who answered their doors either; notice there was no candy exchanging hands). A different era completely,


Are things really so different now in Hollywood's depiction of high schoolers? Few if any of the "teenagers" on Glee or 90210 are actually in their teens (I believe Damien McGinty, a new cast addition, is still a teenager). The actors playing Puck and Finn are closer to 30 than 20.


This is a slice-of-life story, so it's not a conventional narrative and thus the narrative through line is fairly nonexistent. This isn't the first or last film to use this approach.


The father says to Tootie, "Remind me to spank you right after dinner." We don't see it, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.


Again, the father's dictatorial ways (though he talks a tougher game than he practices - notice the immediate change of mind concerning the use of the telephone concerning Rose) seem to belong to behavior of a century ago. Life With Father shows a similar dictatorial head of the household whose family knows ways around his imperiousness.


Yes, Rose and Esther were going to play a miserable trick on her brother's sweetheart, but teens playing pranks on one another and disrespecting those who are different has only increased in viciousness and cruelty over the generations if the dozens of high school comedies I review each year are any indication. And, Esther pays the price for her planned prank.


Why is the film a classic? It offers a beautifully composed look at a year in the life of a middle aged family a century ago with warmth and heart and humor and glorious music delivered by one of the greatest singing actresses of the 20th century.

 

[Rob_Ray]

The film is depicting a time closer to the 19th century than the 21st, so a little deference to a difference in outlook and attitude is needed. The film was based on the reminiscences of Sally Benson, so if bonfires were built on Halloween night in the middle of the street using discarded furniture, one should understand how different things were back then and take her at her word (I never threw flour in the faces of people who answered their doors either; notice there was no candy exchanging hands). A different era completely, Are things really so different now in Hollywood's depiction of high schoolers? Few if any of the "teenagers" on Glee or 90210 are actually in their teens (I believe Damien McGinty, a new cast addition, is still a teenager). The actors playing Puck and Finn are closer to 30 than 20. This is a slice-of-life story, so it's not a conventional narrative and thus the narrative through line is fairly nonexistent. This isn't the first or last film to use this approach. The father says to Tootie, "Remind me to spank you right after dinner." We don't see it, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Again, the father's dictatorial ways (though he talks a tougher game than he practices - notice the immediate change of mind concerning the use of the telephone concerning Rose) seem to belong to behavior of a century ago. Life With Father shows a similar dictatorial head of the household whose family knows ways around his imperiousness. Yes, Rose and Esther were going to play a miserable trick on her brother's sweetheart, but teens playing pranks on one another and disrespecting those who are different has only increased in viciousness and cruelty over the generations if the dozens of high school comedies I review each year are any indication. And, Esther pays the price for her planned prank. Why is the film a classic? It offers a beautifully composed look at a year in the life of a middle aged family a century ago with warmth and heart and humor and glorious music delivered by one of the greatest singing actresses of the 20th century.

Beautifully stated, Matt! This is a glimpse at a history that was only forty years prior to the film's release, and though it's clearly idealized and whitewashed to a certain extent, it's a pretty accurate indication of what life was like at the time overall. As I said in a post nearly two years ago, the whole concept of "Trick-or-treating" was conceived in the mid 20th century in an effort to contain all the vandalism that had come to be a part of Halloween. All the morbidity and prankishness found in the two younger girls is clearly a reflection of Sally Benson's own childhood and rings true for children raised in a sheltered society with not only no internet or television, but no real movies to speak of or radio as well. These kids' imaginations were fueled by the world of songs sung to sheet music played in the parlor, folk tales handed down by elders and dime novels. Mention also should be made to Vincente Minnelli's unusually sharp attention to set design. Notice the gold fish bowl, the water pump in the kitchen, the stains from the gas lamps on the wallpaper and countless other indications that the set designers were culling memories from their own childhood. Then go look at something like "On Moonlight Bay" and see the difference. Meet Me in St. Louis is a magnificent piece of work and one of the finest entertainments ever to come out of MGM.

 

[Louis Letizia]

MMISL was already a period piece in the forties. It would be like making SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER now , through 2011 eyes-not in 1977 and recollecting every detail of nearly forty years ago. I've watched many movies that were set in the 70s-my time , just as Bensons LOUIS was her time- and felt disappointed by it not evoking a time and place that would transport me back. My nieces and nephews -who think THAT 70S SHOW depicts my generation - would get greater pleasure of seeing DAZED AND CONFUSED then I did. I'm too close . While I appreciate the clothing and hairstyles and settings-its really the attitudes of the characters-or in the case of THAT 70S and DAZED -caricatures -that I have problems with. Its farce -not real and when they try to do 70s set dramas they are not the people I knew. It seems that nostalgia is done better in a 20 year cycle. THE ICE STORM from 1997 is one of the best 70s set movies ever in evoking a time , place and feel. The writers and actors were much closer to the decade and could pick up the nuances of the time because they were fresher . MEET ME IN ST LOUIS suffers from this timespan. Our memories fade like the colors of a mood ring the older we get. We lose something in translation . I learned long ago that movies were not history lessons-they are entertainment. While theres noone longer alive who saw ST LOUIS in the forties and lived the era it portrayed-it would be interesting to hear what they thought. As a viewer now I cannot connect with LOUIS (except the name!)-but I can enjoy its setpieces and the Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas scene gets me everytime. Margaret OBrien could be grating but I also think the kid in EXTREMELY LOUD AND INCREDIBLY CLOSE is also. Blame should go to the directors that allowed them to go too far-not the actors.

 

[Eric Vedowski]

I have to say, I grew up not far from Wisconsin at the same time "That 70's Show" is set and to me, and friends my age, it is pretty much spot on. The attitudes, slang, clothes, the parents, the basement-no caricature at all given that it's a sit-com. Maybe it depends on where you grew up. I didn't recognize much from "Dazed and Confused" as being similar to my experience, other than partying out at the woods. It seemed rooted in a very 1950s mentality to me. I do share your enthusiasm for "The Ice Storm" as a true time capsule of the 70s.

 

[Louis Letizia]

I think "That 70's Show" is brilliant. It could easily have been as frivolous as "Happy Days" , but instead spoofs that family comedy of the 70s that depicted the 50s. I conotate "Happy Days" more a a 70s sitcom than as a nostalgic piece whereas "That 70's" is effortless in letting you know its a period piece. "Happy Days" may have been its template - sweet, ditzy mother ; cantankerous blue collar Dad ; sensitive son with a sister; a breakout sex symbol-male ; 2 tagalong best friends -but in emulating that other 70s show-it tears it apart -affectionately- as well. I believe it truly comes down to where you lived . I have yet to see an urban set or big city themed 70s set show to compare. SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER is a true depiction of what that was like -but it was of its time and place. Movies have always come down to personal preference -I have yet to name a movie that I thought was universally loathed -that someone , somewhere said they loved. Movies and actors are like real people -they are often labeled and discriminated against because of popular consensus. Time changes all of that. I, too, have been trying to catch up with the classics pre 1970. None have yet to pack an emotional wallop with me other than MARTY and A STREETCAR NAMED DESIRE -because they are human stories. I could not get through GONE WITH THE WIND and thought BEN HUR to be the most overated movie ever. Instead I am captivated by Jerry Lewis movies and understand his French following. I was never an action movie guy -I considered myself a cinephile -and yet after watching the absorbing Jean Claude Van Damme reality show that Showtime aired in its entirety - I decided to check out his movies.They are very well crafted and as a persona Van Damme had a great gift that was sadly never realized. He acts from his heart - and that could be not said about many these days. Quentin Tarantino should rediscover this guy and give him a role he can sink his teeth into -I think he'll shock many.

 

[ahollis]

Originally Posted by Louis Letizia

I believe it truly comes down to where you lived . I have yet to see an urban set or big city themed 70s set show to compare. SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER is a true depiction of what that was like -but it was of its time and place.

You are aware that there was a 1979 TV series called Makin' It staring David Naughton that was based on Saturday Night Fever.


Back to Meet Me In St. Louis Pilot. Celeste Holm was married in real life to Wesley Addy, who played the father, Mr. Smith. In a previous post by Will K, mentioned the actor that played the boy next door looked slutty, well that actor, Michael Blodgett was famous for appearing in Beyond The Valley Of Dolls. I guess others saw how slutty he looked. Watching the pilot was like watching paint dry or watching the pilot for State Fair, which is on that DVD. They really wasted the talents of Miss Holm, Mr. Addy and of course the great Reta Shaw.

The rumor has it that CBS passed on the pilot because the head of programing said he did not want any show on his network that had an ice wagon rattling down the street. But of course he was happy with Beverly Hillbillies, Green Acres, and Petticoat Junction. I think they passed on it because it was just plain boring.

 

[Louis Letizia]

You are aware that there was a 1979 TV series called Makin' It staring David Naughton that was based on Saturday Night Fever.

Yes I was aware. I should have been more clear is saying there have been no contemporary films or series that look back at urban youth of the 70s in either a comedic or dramatic way realistically. Makin It was officially taken from FEVER? Interesting about the aborted LOUIS series. I do not know if it would have taken off in the 60s. The Waltons did very well for itself in the 70s- but others set in the past-aka the SEVEN BRIDES FOR SEVEN BROTHERS tv spinoff-failed miserably. Reta Shaw would have been the bright spot in it as she was in the extremely slight Ghost and Mrs. Muir series. I just was bored to death with that show.