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MASTER BURN-IN THREAD: READ THIS FIRST! (And ask follow-ups here.) (1 Viewer)

Brian-R

Auditioning
Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Messages
6
Well, I used to read these topics here and elsewhere and think: "Man, these guys are all just paranoid! Just calibrate your TV and, when in doubt, turn the contrast down a few extra notches!" I was definitely aware of the possibility of screen burn, but I thought I was being careful. I'd always be careful not to leave a static image on the screen (no long pausing on DVD or HTPC) and made sure that stations I tended to leave on for "background noise" had animated/rotating logos.

Well. . . I'm now a bit more sympathetic to those who have burned their RPTVs. I calibrated my TV with Avia as soon as I got it. I even turned the contrast down an extra click or two just for good measure. I'm at about 45% contrast normally. When I got HDTV a couple months ago, I changed one mode to have it at about 52%. Rest assured, however, this still looks far from Torch mode because my 1080i is much dimmer than my 480p and analog cable feed.

Well, Fox News is what finally got me. I am in the habit of watching/listening to Fox News while I geek out on my computer every night. I figured I'd be okay since the logo rotates. But, that wasn't the case. I've had my Sony KP-53HS10 for a litte over three years and I now have faint pinkish, fuzzy lines that correspond exactly to where the white letters appear in the rotating Fox logo in the lower-left corner of the screen. Yes, it rotates, but that doesn't seem to have mattered.

Anyway, I don't want to make anyone paranoid. But turning down your contrast and calibrating your TV is not always enough. You also should be sure to not just leave your TV on for "background noise" as long as there is any logo present on the screen. Your screen can burn even with proper calibration. In my careful experience, I've learned that viewing habits are just as important.
 

Levi

Agent
Joined
Jun 21, 2004
Messages
33
You also should be sure to not just leave your TV on for "background noise" as long as there is any logo present on the screen.
What I do when I'm watching/listening to ESPNews is I zoom in until the static logos and crawl bar are not on the screen. Not my preferred method of viewing 4:3 content, but ESPNews isn't exactly Citizen Kane, you know?

--LEVI
 

kurt_fire

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
183
How do news logos burn-in on a RPHDTV even with the TVs going to commercials.... and with yourself changing channels every so often??
i have the KDP-51WS550
 

Brian-R

Auditioning
Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Messages
6
I don't think heat and constant, uninterrupted use has as much to do with phosphor burn as some people seem to believe. A phosphor gets dimmer when it is used. That's a fact. Whether it gets 20 minutes here and there, or an hour all at once, some miniscule amount of dimming will take place. Obviously, this miniscule amount won't be noticable. But the cumulative effect is what can eventually get you if you are the type to watch the same channel regularly.

Logos are going to dim their area of the screen over time, regardless of whether there are commercials breaking things up or the logo rotates. In my case, I probably had Fox News on for 2-4 hours/day several days per week for three years. On weekends, it was probably on for as long as 6-7 hours. Over three years, those phosphors showed a lot of the bright white lettering of the Fox News logo even though it was rotating and commercials gave it some rest. Now they are showing the effects as a light pinkish area whenever I am watching a bright white background.

I can ignore it, I think. I'm getting over the diappointment. And I really do have to look for it to see it.

Again, I don't want anyone to freak anyone out or peddle paranoia. Please don't stop watching a show you think you might enjoy for an hour or two, even if there is a logo. But my TV was showing the same darn logo (again, rotating), for 2-4 hours, several nights per week for three years. Proper calibaration (Picture at 45-55%) didn't save me. That was my only point.

B
 

Bishoy

Auditioning
Joined
Jul 4, 2004
Messages
2
That's pretty worrying. Though you posted with the intention to not scare anyone, you've done a good job at making me quite paranoid. First thing's first: since I bought my television about 2 months ago, it's been at about 70 percent brightness and 50 percent contrast. After reading your post, I changed it to 35/35. There is no burn in visible on my screen whatsoever.
I have a 65" Hitachi Widescreen HDTV -- "Director's Series" that comes with a 'magic focus' feature. What's the significance of this feature? Also... watching television in widescreen mode, in which the black bars exist, many of you have said, is not good for the TV. If you were to zoom in, doesn't it defeat the purpose of having a widescreen television to begin with? Confusion ensues.
 

Bishoy

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Jul 4, 2004
Messages
2
Oh, and I have another interesting point. My Magnavox 52" Analog RPTV made in 1992 has no burn in to today. It still functions just fine, but it takes about 15 seconds to turn on... There is no burn in, and Disney was left on for about 3 hours a day, CNN about 2 hours a day -- every day, for 12 years.

No burn in, nothing.
 

Qui-Gon John

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Also... watching television in widescreen mode, in which the black bars exist, many of you have said, is not good for the TV. If you were to zoom in, doesn't it defeat the purpose of having a widescreen television to begin with?
Not really, at least IMHO. On my Pioneer RPTV, if I watch a 2.35 Anamorphic movie in FULL MODE, I have black bars that the 2 together total about 1/3 of the screen. Now if I stretch the picture to ZOOM MODE, I get no bars and as I have tested using a paused movie, I don't loose any picture off the sides.
 

Dick White

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Dec 29, 1998
Messages
148
If you watch a 2.35 anamorphic movie in zoom mode, you're looking at a very distorted picture. I'd rather have burn-in. Unless that's all you watch, it's unlikely that watching them as they were intended to be watched is going to hurt anything. (And if that's all you watch, you would never notice the burn-in :) )I'm on my second widescreen Pioneer RPTV (more than six years on the first one). I watch everything OAR and have seen no signs of burn-in.
 

Gary Mui

Agent
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Dec 5, 2002
Messages
35
If you were to zoom in, doesn't it defeat the purpose of having a widescreen television to begin with? Confusion ensues.
Yes it would now, wouldn't it?? You spend all that money to buy a nice widescreen set, just to crop the image and miss out on what the director originally wanted us to see?

Hell no for me. I intend to enjoy my 65" to the fullest.

The way I see it, it's all common sense. You have to calibrate it properly, then you may have to adjust it according to your viewing habbits. Dont leave it on for hours at a time on a screen that has a static logo, blah blah blah. Even with the exact same TV as someone else, with the same settings, you may get burn in and the other bloke wont.

Dont rip your hair out worry about it too much.
 

Brian-R

Auditioning
Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Messages
6
Dont leave it on for hours at a time on a screen that has a static logo, blah blah blah.
I think the main point of my post was that even rotating/changing logos can be a problem. So, really, my best advice would be: Never leave your TV on a channel with a static logo. . . over the years. Only watch a station like that if you are actively watching it. Over the years, it will affect your TV.
One last attempt at curbing the paranoia. I left my TV on Fox News all the time. I did have my picture level set low. But it was the same logo (yes, rotating) for three years. Had I just turned off the TV and routed the sound through my stereo, I'd have been fine.
Best advice: Even when you're following all the precautions, your TV is not a radio. When you're not watching it, turn it off or at least make sure that it's not on a station with any type of logo. Especially one that you watch often.
B
 

Kerry

Auditioning
Joined
Oct 22, 2003
Messages
8
Thanks for posting the experience with Fox News, since we too have that station on frequently. I wish to Sam Hill stations would quit with the icons!

I've started changing formats. My wife prefers stretch plus, so we use that most of the time. But now I also use standard - doesn't fill the screen horizontally, but moves the rotating image over.

Sometimes we use Expand (or is it zoom?), whichever format keeps the 4:3 format but fills the screen enough to get rid of the ticker and image at the bottom.

Man! People sure fill the screen then, though. :)

Good luck, all. I agree, these are to be enjoyed, and we do play PS2 on it occasionally, too. I'm just trying to strike that balance between paranoia and minimum changes.
 

Tad

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Feb 16, 2004
Messages
4
I have been waiting forever to get my hands on Hot Shots Golf Fore! for the PS2, and I just realized how many static images the games contains. Now I am going to be afraid to play the game as often as I like and it ticks me off. The guys who sold me my RPTV assured me that video games are safe to play on it as long as they are not left on pause, and now I have come to find out that there is alot more to it than that. I just spent $2400 on a set that I have to be paranoid about playing video games on, and I play more games than I do anything else. I don't even have cable hooked up to it because I only watch DVD's and play games.

I bought Digital Video Essentials and calibrated it the best I can, I have the brightness set to 44% and contrast set to 35%, and I am still paranoid. If I would have known then what I know now, I would have went for a LCD or DLP, but I bought a CRT thinking everything would be fine. Why don't these people that sell these things make the consumers a bit more aware of the danger of burn in?

I am wondering if anyone else here is strictly a gamer and DVD watcher like myself, and how long you have been gaming on your CRT RPTV? I usually play on average 4 to 5 hours at a time, at least I use to. Now I am terrified that I am going to have a permanent image of a Hot Shots swing meter or a Halo ammo bar etched into my screen, on a TV that I worked countless hours of overtime and saved up to buy. It almost makes me want to go back to my old analog set, just so I don't have to worry about limiting the amount of time I am allowed to play without ruining my new set. I have read numerous times that burn in is not covered under warranty, so I know that even though the guys at the store who sold it to me assured me gaming is safe, if burn in did occur, I would be SOL. This is so frustrating. I guarantee you the next set I purchase will be INCAPABLE of burn in, no matter what it costs.

Sorry for the extra long post, can any games give me any reassurance on how many hours at a time I can play with static images on without being terrified the entire time? Or did I basically just waste 2400 bucks since I am not an avid television viewer?
 

Statilius

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Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Messages
2
If I have DirectTV and only watch widescreen or HDTV format about 15% of the time should I even consider a widescreen? As DirectTV increases the amount of HiDef material I will view more and more overtime. However, currently outside of ESPN HD, NFL Sunday Ticket, and two-three movies per month the remaining material is ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, WPB, etc. all of which are standard format with DirectTV (unless I purchase an antenna). So, with my scenario is getting a widescreen a good decision and using the "zoom" feature?
 

Mike Hartman

Auditioning
Joined
Jul 24, 2001
Messages
14
I skimmed through this thread and I don't think my question has been addressed yet, but 272 replies is a lot to read through.. :frowning:
I have a Scientific Atlanta 3100HD cable box from Blue Ridge Cable and it constantly outputs 1080i signal and whenever an HD broadcast is not present it put black bars on automatically.. I've been watching DVDs and HD programming as much as possible, but I have noticed a faint light line where the black bars begin on each side of the screen.. My contrast and brightness setings are at 35 and 60 respectively following my initial AVIA setup..
Is there anything I can do to reduce this issue, or should I simply just reserve my non HDTV watching for my living room? The new SA 8000HD is available (PVR, woohoo!) and I have heard you can switch the output, but it's a cumbersome process and does not sound appealing, but I guess all in the name of a burn-free screen, eh?
Has anyone else had problems with a set top box causing burn-in lines?
 

Doug Z

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Apr 2, 2003
Messages
74
With regard to the RP CRT's, if you get burn-in can you replace the screen? I understand the standard TV's are just one big tube with a screen but where does the burn-in occur on the rear projection's? I realize they use multiple guns to transform the image on to the screen but is it coming from the guns or the display screen itself?
 

Qui-Gon John

Senior HTF Member
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Burn-In on an RPTV is burn in on the individual "guns". And they can be replaced, but it's pretty pricey, I heard about ~1000 per "gun".
 

Sam Davatchi

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Sep 15, 1999
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SamD
I have just purchased a Plasma Hitachi HDTV and I have turned down the contrast-brightness. My set has a feature that is the screensaver and is set to 20 minutes. It moves the picture every 20 minutes a little to the side. Don’t other displays have this? With this, should I still be worried about logo burn-ins?
 

ChrisWiggles

Senior HTF Member
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Aug 19, 2002
Messages
4,791
orbiting features can be helpful, but really all it's doing is smearing out the wear a little bit. If you're going to use a display and run it into the ground as a kind of informational display type thing, then orbiting helps to make the burn-in much less objectionable because it's smeared around a bit and less defined. It helps, but if you have things calibrated properly, you probably shouldn't be worrying much anyway.
 

Sam Davatchi

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It helps, but if you have things calibrated properly, you probably shouldn't be worrying much anyway.
I have turned down the contrast and brightness to 0 but someone said here that even with perfectly calibrated display, you can get a burn-in.
 

Grace

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Oct 8, 2004
Messages
135
instead of talking about avoiding it, how about talking about fixes for it? (i.e. negative of jpg, white background, etc)
(for example of burn in, in pics below, see the desktop icons on the left and the taskbar showing)


 

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