Looney Tunes Censored 11 comes to Warner Archive in 2011! (1 Viewer)

[dana martin]

some of the interesting reading available on some of the same toons from that era, not as offensive, some of the animators were even uncomfortable with the subject matter then, the reason i brought up the George Pal PuppetToons is that there is one with Bugs Bunny, Jasper Goes Hunting, Jasper was badly stereotyped here is the odd thing, Pal was a Paramount and this was released Theatrically Via Paramount, but does WB have any interest in this?

 

[Mark B]

Originally Posted by Corey3rd
The Censored 11 belong in the movie section since they weren't made for TV and haven't aired on TV in over four decades.

I agree with that, too. In fact it's always annoyed me that Looney Tunes in general have become categorized as TV fare.

 

[MatthewA]

/forum/thread/304867/looney-tunes-censored-11-comes-to-warner-archive-in-2011#post_3738610
Where, where were all the original Hanna Barbara Tom & Jerry's released in that format, Volume Three had 3 such omisions, even after warnings as soon as the dvd starts up. And to make a statement, not everyone who wants to see this is a Racist Creep, some are just truly animation fans, while the subject matter would not fly in todays modern standards, i have no problem with the Japan bashing in these, because they are approiate for the time in which they were made, wrong but right for the time and what they were trying to convey, no different than the SNAFU shorts; funny no one ever gets upset about making fun of Germans in the cartoons of that era, why is that?

As for the German bashing, I don't mind it because I would have been one of the first people attacked by the Nazis due to my ancestral national (Lithuanian and Polish on my father's side, and English/Scotch/Irish on my mother's) and religious origin (Jewish) and sexual orientation. I like watching them get what they deserve in the movies. And the Japanese committed some truly vile atrocities against the Chinese (the rape of Nanking) and the Filipinos (the Manila massacre), and lingering resentment towards Japan exists today in China and the Philippines because of it. Pearl Harbor was the tip of the iceberg.

Because much of the racism in this country has been directed at nonwhites by whites, people will have a problem dealing with anti-Japanese propaganda. And the internment of Americans of Japanese descent was embarrassing. But Pearl Harbor made Americans really angry at the Japanese.

But outside of the WWII material, not everyone at the time believed that racial jokes were hurtful. Some racial stereotypes had malicious intent behind them, others thought it was all in fun. But it was a different day and age, and this material needs to be kept available to show the reality of what was and was not acceptable then. I'm more offended by some of the things I've seen on BET than Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs.

Accusations of racism are so common that even shows like The Cosby Show that went out of their way to avoid racial stereotypes have been accused of racism. Don't believe me? There's actually a book by an author named Sut Jhaly called "Enlightened Racism: The Cosby Show, Audiences, and the Myth of the American Dream", which implies that Cosby's success was evidence of white racism. There were accusations of racism against The Blind Side because it dealt with a white family who helped a black teenage boy in need because they felt it was their Christian duty to help the needy. Those critics claimed that it implied that blacks could not succeed without the help of whites; it reminded me of similar criticisms aimed at Diff'rent Strokes and Webster 30 years ago. I didn't buy it then, and I don't buy it now. Racism is defined by intent.

Looney Tunes were never aimed at kids, even though kids love them, and they should not be sanitized. Censoring the censored 11 and other racial/ethnic jokes is no different than censoring the violent slapstick. I think censorship should be banned. Ironically, that would protect speech that called for censorship, but I guess that's the price you pay for living in a free country. And just because the studio has the legal right to do what they please with this material, rights are not the same as right and wrong. I am glad Warner Bros. is giving these cartoons a chance, but I, too, wish it was an in-store release. I'll buy it if the transfers are decent. I wish Disney would give Song of the South that opportunity as well, but they have no MOD program.

 

[dana martin]

Originally Posted by MatthewA


As for the German bashing, I don't mind it because I would have been one of the first people attacked by the Nazis due to my ancestral national (Lithuanian and Polish on my father's side, and English/Scotch/Irish on my mother's) and religious origin (Jewish) and sexual orientation. I like watching them get what they deserve in the movies. And the Japanese committed some truly vile atrocities against the Chinese (the rape of Nanking) and the Filipinos (the Manila massacre), and lingering resentment towards Japan exists today in China and the Philippines because of it. Pearl Harbor was the tip of the iceberg.

Because much of the racism in this country has been directed at nonwhites by whites, people will have a problem dealing with anti-Japanese propaganda. And the internment of Americans of Japanese descent was embarrassing. But Pearl Harbor made Americans really angry at the Japanese.

But outside of the WWII material, not everyone at the time believed that racial jokes were hurtful. Some racial stereotypes had malicious intent behind them, others thought it was all in fun. But it was a different day and age, and this material needs to be kept available to show the reality of what was and was not acceptable then. I'm more offended by some of the things I've seen on BET than Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs.

Accusations of racism are so common that even shows like The Cosby Show that went out of their way to avoid racial stereotypes have been accused of racism. Don't believe me? There's actually a book by an author named Sut Jhaly called "Enlightened Racism: The Cosby Show, Audiences, and the Myth of the American Dream", which implies that Cosby's success was evidence of white racism. There were accusations of racism against The Blind Side because it dealt with a white family who helped a black teenage boy in need because they felt it was their Christian duty to help the needy. Those critics claimed that it implied that blacks could not succeed without the help of whites; it reminded me of similar criticisms aimed at Diff'rent Strokes and Webster 30 years ago. I didn't buy it then, and I don't buy it now. Racism is defined by intent.

Looney Tunes were never aimed at kids, even though kids love them, and they should not be sanitized. Censoring the censored 11 and other racial/ethnic jokes is no different than censoring the violent slapstick. I think censorship should be banned. Ironically, that would protect speech that called for censorship, but I guess that's the price you pay for living in a free country. And just because the studio has the legal right to do what they please with this material, rights are not the same as right and wrong. I am glad Warner Bros. is giving these cartoons a chance, but I, too, wish it was an in-store release. I'll buy it if the transfers are decent. I wish Disney would give Song of the South that opportunity as well, but they have no MOD program.

understood, my heritage is native American / English mix, talk about loosing a country, and there have been some items that are offensive, but in time have come to embrace some, also as a retired service member, i have always held part of my oath higher , and that is we are here to protect rights, as in the bill of rights, paid for in blood, i might not agree with the way some think, what they do, but it is there right in a free society, people should pay attention as to what they are allowing to be censored, or willing to give up, does censorship work, ask Nazi Germany, or the Soviet Union, worked for them, i don't want a one world socialist state,

i separate the art from the subject matter, be it an old Charlie Chan film, Manhattan Moorland kills in those, bad stereotype, but at same time getting screen time,

Song of the South, which i did see as a child in a theater, what i remember was fondly, as a simple story about a black country gentleman, telling his folktales, i know it would not be viewed this way, Tom and Jerry were edited, redrawn over, voices replaced, just wrong, when i think of a sound to T&J, it is Lillian Randolph's Voice, that is a hell of a statement.

i view this as a capsule good or bad for that time, like a mattahew brady photograph, don't act as if it never happened, and don't let it happen again.

 

[jquirk]

Yeah, Ahmed Best played Jar-Jar, but Jar-Jar did not, I repeat, DID NOT look like Ahmed Best, nor any other black person for that matter.

Regarding the Censored 11, I checked some of them out on youtube and while they are offensive, I'd like to have them to satisfy the history buff in me. Plus, I love classic Warner Brothers animation and would like to have as many of their classic cartoons at my disposal as possible.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

I picked up a DVD from Australia that had one or two of the censored 11, along with one of the Jasper Puppetoons (the 'haunted house' one), a few years back for about five bucks.

 

[Eric Peterson]

For those who are concerned that there will be mass outrage.....or any outrage at all, you need to look around a little more. Personally, I find more racial insensitvity in just about anything on BET, or try watching an episode of any "Judge" program that runs during the day. These shows are absolutely horrible as they primarily star extremely stupid people....and a large majority of them are black. As far as animation is concerned try watching some of the Vault cartoons on the Woody Woodpecker sets. There are several cartoons with racial content on par with "Coal Black" and I haven't read of any marches since those were released......and these were targeted at children and are available in Big Box stores everywhere.

These will sell in relatively large numbers and there won't be a peep......and I'm a notorious pessimist!!

 

[MatthewA]

Disney already allowed cartoons with racial stereotypes and jokes out in the Treasures collection — with warnings. The same with the Looney Tunes Golden Collection. More people complained about the warnings than the content.

 

[David Lambert]

While I know that Corey, Mark and some others might say "hey, TVShowsOnDVD should NOT be reporting on this, as it's not TV fare", I nevertheless hope that the update I just added to the bottom of the Censored Eleven story I posted at the site I work at yesterday MAY possibly add something to this discussion:

http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Bugs-Bunny-Looney-Tunes-Comedy-Hour-The-Censored-Eleven/14541

That is all.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

David:
Though I am well-aware that classic animated shorts (Looney Tunes, Tom & Jerry, etc) are not "TV episodes", I for one do appreciate you reporting on them. I might not have know about some releases if you hadn't, as I check TVShowsOnDVD far more regularly than, say, a classic animation forum.

As they've all been repurposed for TV broadcast over the years (in various half-hour and hour-long programmes, for example), there is sort-of technically a justification for including them anyway.

Sometimes people take things just a bit too seriously.

 

[David Lambert]

Andy (and everyone else): don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to call anyone out over the matter. I was merely acknowledging that some people do indeed disagree on whether or not it is a fit subject for our site.

Still, Gord and I have long ago decided it's an appropriate topic, since people DO relate the cartoons to television very much these days. So it falls within the scope of our site's mission, and we seem to do a good enough job of it. Therefore we'll continue to cover DVD releases of the Looney Tunes/Merry Melodies shorts.

Enough off-topic-ness. Let's talk Looney!!

 

[Traveling Matt]

Thank you for reporting this news, David. You guys have always done a great job keeping folks in the know about the LTs, which are certainly tied close enough to classic television to warrant a mention on your site.

Coincidentally, was there a particular reason you didn't report on Sony's Three Stooges collections? I'm sure many consider them to be of a similar identity as the LTs...

 

[David Lambert]

Well, we're back to being off-topic, but since this question comes up ALL the time, here's the explanation:

Matt, the Looney Tunes shorts had the benefit of having a "home" on television, a program that we could list the DVD releases under at our site. These and other shorts (like Little Rascals, Popeye and others) all ended up being shown on television in regular, nationally broadcast or nationally syndicated TV programs that could be found on a given channel on a regularly scheduled basis; therefore we cover the DVD releases of material seen in those programs. Actually, there are a TON of shows we could have listed the Looney Tunes shorts under...go to our site and search on "Bugs" in the show search field sometime, and you'll see what I mean. We "picked" The Bugs Bunny/Looney Tunes Comedy Hour as our show of choice to list the DVD releases with, but we conceivably could have picked any of the regular TV shows the shorts aired under.

However, The Three Stooges have NEVER had the benefit of a regular, nationally broadcast or nationally syndicated TV program that could be found on a given channel on a regularly scheduled basis. All TV appearances, ever, of those shorts have been on an ad hoc basis, with a station deciding to run the shorts to fill in a blank time period (often on a one-off basis), or even just to fill in the gap after a "late late show" movie that didn't end precisely on the hour. Or maybe to have a "marathon" of their shorts run in place of the early show on a weekend day, or whatever. The only "television series" with the Stooges was their animated cartoons, a heading which the live-action film shorts obviously do not fall under. So we literally have no "home" for those Three Stooges shorts at TVShowsOnDVD.com!

 

[WillG]

Seems plans for this set is "Not Firm"

From the Bits



I find that "racism" is a bit mypoic. Certain people can get away with it and some can't. Some things aviod the radar, some land smack on it. Woody Woodpecker probably skirted by because, it hasn't really been popular in decades (I don't even think I have seen a WW cartoon on tv in like 20 years). Looney Tunes, I think, are much better remembered. Song of the South hasn't been seen in years, but the fact that it's Disney puts it right on the radar as well.

To paraphrase Mayor Vaughn:

"It's all psychological....You yell racist Woody Woodpecker, Everyone says Huh, What? You yell racist Looney Tunes....We've got a panic on our hands"

 

[MatthewA]

At least they're considering it instead of saying "Absolutely not, and how dare you ask, you racist Nazi!"

I wonder whether kids who love these cartoons are very particular about them as adult fans are. Do they care about things like whether a cartoon is pre-1948 or post-1948, the early B&W years, or the other things animation fans and historians debate until the cows come home? I doubt they would even be interested in the Censored 11. But whatever they do with them, they should not put recognizable characters on the box or any characters from Coal Black.

Song of the South is on the radar largely because of its absence from circulation, and because it is probably the most popular film to ever be withdrawn from circulation in this country. Strangely, Europe (which started the slave trade) and Asia had no problem with the film. Guess I'll have to save up for a used copy of the Hong Kong laserdisc, or better yet, a film print.

 

[jquirk]

Originally Posted by WillG

To paraphrase Mayor Vaughn:

"It's all psychological....You yell racist Woody Woodpecker, Everyone says Huh, What? You yell racist Looney Tunes....We've got a panic on our hands"

LOL! Now that's funny!

 

[Ruz-El]

This kind of pisses me off. I've been supporting Warner Brothers Looney Tunes collections from the get go, owning all the gold sets, and buying the goofy spotlight collections that Warners decided to cheap out on and release. So to have some of the most eagerly awaited cartoons debut in the Archives line, it's a bit of a kick in the nuts to those of us who've been long time supporters. Being in Canada, I'm not even sure if I have the option (they never used to ship to Canada) to order these without going through bizarre hoops of having a US friend buy it and send it to me.

While I appreciate Warners attempt to get as many movies out as possible, the Archives has been a deal breaker for me. I went from loving and blind buying Warner Boxsets based on the value, to now giving Criterion most of my hobby dollars since the Archives have been both unavailable to me since I'm in Canada, and frankly, many titles are over priced. I think the 4-5 Jolson discs were about $20-$25 a piece in the archives. I'm pretty sure that if it was a legit boxset, it would of sold for $45-$60 on the store shelves. It's a shame.

 

[dana martin]

Originally Posted by WillG


To paraphrase Mayor Vaughn:

"It's all psychological....You yell racist Woody Woodpecker, Everyone says Huh, What? You yell racist Looney Tunes....We've got a panic on our hands"

Originally Posted by jquirk

LOL! Now that's funny!

[COLOR= black]and why is it that most people don’t know Woody, 15 years or so of cartoon Network/Boomerang mostly programming titles they already had, lots of loony tunes, HB Saturday morning; Disney Channel, does the same, so most fall along the way side, hell I am still waiting on Universal to give us a third Woody Woodpecker and Friends set [/COLOR]

 

[Peter Rohlfs]

I hate to put fuel on the Phantom Menace fire, but anyone wishing to see how George Lucas portrays black characters in the movie just needs to look at Mace Windu and Captain Panaka.

Jar Jar is not only an alien, he doesn't even represent typical Gungan behavior.


Peter

 

[Nailwraps]

Big update!:

http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Bugs-Bunny-Looney-Tunes-Comedy-Hour-Stu's-Show-Jerry-Beck/14771
"HERE'S THE BIG NEWS! Jerry said that the "Censored 11" is planned for DVD, most definitely, and with a GENERAL traditional retail release (not via the Warner Archives; see our Oct. 12th report, and the next-day-update at the bottom of it, for more on that); it will have other rare cartoons besides the "11", all restored, plus some bonus materials; it will be "high-class" release!"