Lists of Blu-ray & HD DVD Titles (Scheduled, Announced, Rumored, Wish List) (1 Viewer)

[Ken_F]

Most of the problems with broadcast high-def occur because the ~18.2Mbps peak data rate for the video stream isn't sufficient for complex scenes with lots of movement, and the result is either a lot of artifacting, or a lot of vertical filtering (softer picture) to eliminate potential artifacts.

Disney will be using MPEG-2 VBR and will not be constraining themselves in the same way. Some scenes on Disney films will use 10Mbps, while intensive scenes will use 25-30Mbps or more, such that the average video stream works out to around 16Mbps. Transfers will be processed once -- from 1080p/24 studio master to 16Mbps VBR 1080p/24 MPEG-2; compare that to television content that is processed once for uplink via satellite to network affiliates and/or cable, and processed again for transmission from affiliate to OTA viewer; in the case of locals on DirecTV, it is processed a third time (to MPEG-4) for distribution via satellite.

The net result will be significantly better high-definition picture quality on Blu-ray and HD-DVD (even for MPEG-2) than what you can get now via broadcast, cable, or satellite.

Studios don't really have any production-quality options other than MPEG-2 for Blu-ray at the moment, unlike HD-DVD. The first production-quality AVC/H.264 tools for Blu-ray will likely be the new Sonic/Panasonic suite announced at CES, expected for final release late summer or early fall. After release, there will probably be some additional testing in the field, and then we should see the first BD movies encoded with AVC/H.264 late this fall or early next year.

With dual-layer and VC1/AVC on release, HD-DVD definitely has the capacity advantage for much of 2006. However, as has been noted many times, that advantage is temporary. More than 90% of Blu-ray titles this year will be on BD-25 media, and probably 75% of those will use MPEG-2; next year, though, we could see 75% of new BD movies using AVC/VC-1, with 20-30% or more of new releases on BD50 media, depending on BD player adoption and Blu-ray disk sales.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Ken,

you sound like you've got some inside scoop. Help me out, because it was my understanding that studios (WB) doing HD DVD will be using the same VC-1 compressed video for Blu-ray releases. How then can the other studios not be able to do the same? Or would that require purchasing "HD DVD" mastering software until BD-only tools are available?

 

[Ken_F]

Obviously, they don't just copy a video stream to the disk. The authoring software must mux the video stream with format-specific information and apply the AACS encryption.

If you've ever used Apple's iDVD software, you've probably seen the import video function, where you choose your MPEG-2 video stream. Sony's mastering software, which is the only production ready tool for BD, lacks the ability to import VC-1, and Sony hasn't shown much interest in adding it, so anyone wanting to use that codec on Blu-ray is SOL. Microsoft is none too happy about this, as you can imagine.

 

[Ken_F]

Following up on the previous post...

Note Sonic's Scenarist platform for HD-DVD does incorporate support for both AVC(H.264) and VC-1(WM9), but the version for Blu-ray only supports MPEG-2. The current Sonic AVC encoder has a bad reputation, so I don't think you'll see many (any?) using that on HD-DVD.

As I mentioned above, Sonic does have a new version of their Blu-ray authoring platform in alpha (beta due this spring) that will support AVC. Moreover, it looks like they are scrapping their AVC/H.264 encoder, because they announced a partnership with Panasonic at CES to develop a higher performance AVC encoder. It's possible the new version of this suite could incorporate a VC-1 encoder like the HD-DVD version, but I haven't read anything to that effect.

 

[Dan Hitchman]

Looks like I won't be buying any titles any time soon. This rollout is a royal mess!

Talk about nobody being ready for prime time!

It's all driven by greed, incompetence, and politics.

If HD-DVD hangs on by the fingernails this could be another SA-CD vs. DVD-Audio train wreck.

Dan

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Ken,

thanks for the followup. I wonder how that will affect WB studios which has already stated they will be using VC1 on their initial BD titles??? Do they have access to an authoring tool that the other studios do not?

 

[ChristopherDAC]

Ken_F, thanks. I knew I remembered that part of the ATSC datarate was strictly reserved for audio and independent data multiplex.
I'm always amazed at the amount of processing, and what's worse the compression/decompression cycles, that network HD feeds undergo. The Japanese had the right idea, I think, with their "upper hierarchy" MUSE-T and TCI protocols which could be edited, intercut, and processed directly and then converted directly to the transmission format. It's a pity MPEG-II simply doesn't work that way, and the bandwidth just isn't reserved for superior network transmission.
One would suspect -- in fact, experience reported on HTF by D-VHS users strongly suggests -- that even with ATSC bitrates and coding potocols, HD could look much better. With VBR to maximise coding efficiency, I think even MPEG-II BD will be a significant step up from what's been marketed as "High Definition" so far in the US.

 

[Ken_F]

David,

Unfortunately, they don't. Amir Majidimehr, head of Microsoft's Windows Media Division, already reported on the AVS Forum that Warner had intended to use VC-1 on BD, but wasn't able to (on its early titles) because of the lack of support by Sony's BD authoring tools. Neither was very happy about it. At the moment, Warner is expected to use MPEG-2 on early titles just like others.

The best hope for VC-1 support on BD looks like that revised Sonic package coming late summer / fall.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Wow. That is news indeed. Thanks for clarifying. Sony should be spanked without mercy for not getting with it and bundling VC1 compatibility into their initial BD authoring tools.

No *wonder* Sony was singing those MPEG2 hymns of praise.

:rolleyes

Well, hopefully soon enough we'll get VC-1 on board and then BD can kick some serious HD butt!

BTW, if WB intends to use MPEG2 on that silly red-laser version of BD...it will be a sorry sight indeed!!!

Given VC1's superior quality and efficiency and WB's desire for red-laser BD for affordability, I can understand why WB may be stalling on some of their forthcoming Blu-ray release titles. Once VC1 is a reality on BD I bet we'll see a lot more action from the WB camp on BD.

p.s.

You're in the DC area? Any interest in joining forces and screening some Buena-Vista BD product when I finally get some discs in-hand to review? I still have to figure out how to get (afford) a player...

 

[Juan C]

From thedigitalbits on the Warner press event:


For the complete list, visit the site.

 

[Ken_F]

More on the event:

http://www.videobusiness.com/article...+%2F+Suppliers

So good news from this:

1. Simultaneous release of HD-DVD versions of new DVD movies.
2. No exclusive titles on HD-DVD -- all will be released on Blu-ray after a brief period of HD-DVD exclusivity.
3. Suggested pricing of $29.98 per title

 

[DaViD Boulet]

yes, I'll be buying the latest Harry Potter film. On Blu ray.

 

[Juan C]

Screw Harry! Gimme HD Blade Runner now.

And a side order of Kubrick.

 

[Aaron_Brez]

I'm hoping for LOTR on Blu-ray. For me this, not Star Wars, is the killer app.

 

[Rob_Walton]

Are you sure that is a definite? All I can remember reading from Amir are intimations and suggestions. Just to add another possibility to the stew (which may or may not be on the cards) Rio was at CES and apparently was told by a Sony rep that their BD authoring tool handles AVC as well as MPEG2. Tom (fella with plenty of "history" with Microsoft) has implied that AVC encoders have been doing the rounds of Hollywood studios, and that they are now starting to approach real time encoding. It's worth noting though that Tom has a long running interest in AVC development, so even though he's a member of the SMPTE committee overseeing standards in codecs, he's not without his bias. And neither is the Microsoft employee Amir either of course. Kind of hard to know what information to trust some times!

 

[Paul_Scott]

damn, now i'm really confused.

since i most likely was going to wait until Nov before i got into either of these formats, it looks like by that time, assuming Blu-ray has made it to market in Q3, that Warner will have all its titles on the shelves, on both platforms.
doesn't seem to be any reason now for me to even be considering an HD DVD player...
unless the MPEG-2 encoding is going to be too much of a compromise.
Warner is by the far the studio that is going to have the material i want most, to market soonest.

rather than see Warner jump in with all its titles as soon as possible, i'd rather see them just release the bare minimum they are obligated to, until they can use a more forward looking codec.
its a shame that the Bond films among others are going to be moribound for years it looks like, with MPEG-2-if Sony is in a hurry to get them out this year.

or am i just in a twist about nothing?

 

[DaViD Boulet]

I'm still confused by how a few months would be the deciding factor for a collector buying discs that may be in his/her collection for years, and even decades from now.


Sony wants to pounce on BD with a vengance ASAP which probably sticks us with MPEG2 for those initial titles. However, I'm hopeful that once VC1 is tested in the field and proves itself, that SONY will adopt it given the advantages that it will offer them (to compete with the other studios if for no other reason)...like more room for bonus content and hi-res audio.

 

[Paul_Scott]

just going by the information we've had for a few weeks post CES, it looked like there was going to be a choice between sub $500 HD DVD players and $1K and more Bd players.
i was already pretty well set on having both formats in my system (just like i do now with one player being a region free/Pal dedicated one).
the sub $500 price point just seemed to insure that i would pick up that format even sooner than i had planned to.
especially with a generous amount of Warner catalog avaialble for it by that time (and as per my earlier posts, i expected many of these to be exclusives for some time to come).
but this new information today throws that all out the window.

obviously now, come November i will be looking around for the best value in a Bd player (assuming the Warner content is going to be available) and will probably have to bump my budget up to $800-1000.
that really bothers me because a $500 is a lot easier to upgrade a year or two down the line.
a $1000 player i will be married to for a while, and it will be a lot more frustrating to see prices go down and quality go up in a year or two which we all know is going to happen.

my only alternative is to just ignore this hobby for the next year and a half- because i have been chomping on the bit for things like The Searchers, Superman, 2001, etc

i hate the thought of being an early adopter, but i don't know if i have the will power to resist.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Paul,

won't the PS3 be out by November? That will be around your $500 price point.

 

[Dan Hitchman]

Paul,

I wouldn't be too hasty if I were you. There have been issues that have popped up on the AVS Forum about the ability of the first HD-DVD drives to handle certain disc compatibility.

Also, the first HD-DVD players, while cheaper (cheaper components too), will be more hamstrung on features than the first Blu-Ray players. The whole point of this is the ability to get 8 channel discrete lossless or uncompressed high res. audio and 1920x1080p video right off the disc, and the two Toshiba players (this coming from the main pusher of HD-DVD no less) only do 5.1 audio, have little to no lossless decoding support, and only output at 1080i!

At least the first stand-alone Blu-Ray players seem to have more of that format's features at the beginning.

Don't waste your money! I'd wait to get some hard comparisons of players and software first.