What's new

Lexicon to Rotel...Opinions Wanted. (1 Viewer)

Russell _T

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 26, 2001
Messages
579
Gregory,
Are you talking about laying L7 over 5.1 encoded material using a 5.1 setup, or 7.1 setup?
Thanks,
 

Shawn Fogg

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Oct 5, 2001
Messages
223
Dan,

"Don't the various Lexicons have different DACs, etc?"

The DC-2 and MC-1 used the same DAC layout. The main differences between them were in the number of inputs, video switching quality and the front panel display.

The DC-1 used earlier DACs and so on.

The DSP section between the three was identical though so if they are all running v4 software the processing on them is the same.

"you can get V4 software that will decode everything that the newer MC-1 (& MC-12?)"

Not what the MC-12 can do, it has a totally different DSP section and the latest versions of L7 and additional processing options over the earlier Lexicons.

Shawn
 

Gregory Scott Bass

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jun 30, 1997
Messages
180
I am refering to overlaying logic7 7.1 on top of 5.1 which matrixs two additional channels, there is a logic7 5.1 mode but the real advantage logic7 is 7.1
 

Russell _T

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 26, 2001
Messages
579
Gregory,
The reason I'm asking is that I have tried overlaying L7 over 5.1, and it degrades the DD 5.1 format. I don't see the point of it anyway, as DD and DTS are inherently superior. Overlaying L7 on a 7.1 setup makes much more sense, but I'm wondering if the same degradation occurs as when using it over 5.1? I could find out myself, but I'm too lazy to hook up another pair of speakers. I really should since I've paid for all this fancy 7 channel gear. :D
I've found L7 to be very good at steering 2 channel formats to 5 channel, but not any more so than PL2 which is implemented the same way.
 

Gregory Scott Bass

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jun 30, 1997
Messages
180
Hi Russell, I do strongly recommend you hook up your 2 side channels. Dolby prologic2 is very good and in some cases I prefer it on two channel tv, it is implemented differently than logic7 though. What logic7 does is open up the front sound stage more..it sends more info to the left and right speaker where as prologic2 relys fairly heavily on the center. In my opinion which sounds better is completely up to the source involved. logic7 also seems more agressive in the surrounds.

now as for your second part...im not sure I agree with you...I don't think logic7 5.1 degrades 5.1 dts or dd, however because we are not adding channels here the main differences is the opening up of the front soundstage as discussed earlier...so it may just be a matter of taste....I'm not there so I don't know exactly what your hearing but keep in mind that as you switch between the two the logic 7 seems to be several db lower in volume so you will need to turn it up some. but the short story is after you get your two side channels hooked up I doubt you will ever go back to 5.1 again. Scott
 

Gregory Scott Bass

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jun 30, 1997
Messages
180
One more thing Russell, have you tried logic7 enhanced on radio? Im still smiling over that...sounds really good, it really beats prologic2 music mode. logic7 enhanced is only available in 5.1 though....so after you go to 7.1 then when you select this mode is will use only your side channels and the rears will be shut off.
 

Dan Harmer

Agent
Joined
Sep 11, 2002
Messages
30
"What logic7 does is open up the front sound stage more..it sends more info to the left and right speaker where as prologic2 relys fairly heavily on the center."
Actually one of the benefits of ProLogic II is that it includes 3 user adjustable settings for the processing, one of which is Center Channel width, which lets you go from all center channel information coming only from the center channel, to a complete phantom image using the front left and right speakers. The adjustment has 7 steps, and in my system, works really nicely in allowing me to feed just a little of the center channel info to the front left and right speakers--expanding the soundstage and sounding much more realistic to me.
-Dan
 

Gregory Scott Bass

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jun 30, 1997
Messages
180
That sounds really nice Dan....If my 8000 does that I have not discovered it yet...to be truthful though I have been so absorbed in logic7 I have not given neo6 or prologic much air time...but I will :) home theater is becoming complicated lol...
 

Russell _T

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 26, 2001
Messages
579
Gregory,
Hmmm... maybe it is the lower decibel thing that I am hearing. I will try and level match that to the DD setting next time I try it and see if it sounds better. I rarely listen to radio, but I like L7 for tv. It adds a lot. I guess I gotta set up some more speakers. I have some Rocket dipoles and bookshelves I could try.
Dan,
I agree with you that one of the big advantages to PL2 is the user tweakability. It can be customized to pretty much any soundstage you prefer.
 

Shawn Fogg

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Oct 5, 2001
Messages
223
Dan,

"Actually one of the benefits of ProLogic II is that it includes 3 user adjustable settings for the processing, one of which is Center Channel width"

Logic 7 (on a Lex) offers 'Center Steering' as an option which is a similiar adjustment to 'Center Width' on DPLII. It also offers up to 8 other adjustments to tailor the sound as desired too.

Russ,

"I agree with you that one of the big advantages to PL2 is the user tweakability. It can be customized to pretty much any soundstage you prefer. "

Logic 7 on a Lexicon has much more adjustability then PL2 does. Your H/K doesn't offer the full feature set of L7 that is on the Lexicon's.

Shawn
 

Russell _T

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 26, 2001
Messages
579
Well, you gotta go with what you got. :) My H/K has no user adjustability for L7 or PL2, but my Denon and Outlaw 950 are fully adjustable for PL2. Actually the H/K has something called "enhance" but it doesn't seem to do much.
The tweakable PL2 has what they call Panorama which when switched on gives a more enveloping tie in to the surrounds. Very subtle and nice. Then you can adjust the center channel imaging so that it can be focused either more or less on the CC. I think there are seven settings for this from no CC to completely focused on the CC. Then there is Dimension which has 6 settings that smooth out the front soundstage. These options give you a lot to play with. I guess the Lex's L7 must have similar settings.
I prefer the tweaked out PL2 to the regular L7, but between the regular L7 and regular PL2 on the 8000, I prefer L7. I'm only talking about 2 channel sources now. Gotta try L7 on 7.1 if I can get my speakers hooked up.
Later,
 

Gregory Scott Bass

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jun 30, 1997
Messages
180
well..yeah the HK 8000 is not a lexicon but its logic7 is very close, at least to the mc1, I havnt played with the mc12 so I cant say how great it is. The Hk8000 stomps the lexicon for music though.
 

Gregory Scott Bass

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jun 30, 1997
Messages
180
Russell....do you mean pl 2 emul....it is the mode that emulates regular prologic. if you are thinking logic7 enhanced...try it on a analog source like fm radio, I think you will like it...I did so much that I set the tuner to default to it.
 

Dan Harmer

Agent
Joined
Sep 11, 2002
Messages
30
So, how many of you out there have compared Logic 7 laid over a 5.1/6.1 source to Circle Surround processing (like on the 1066) laid over those same sources? I've read many owners of the Rotel 1066 (and Outlaw 950 (same chipset) owners) that prefer this processing to straight DD EX or DTS ES 6.1 Discrete/Matrix.
If you haven't had both units in your home, please refrain from commenting ;) It's unfortunate that you have to upgrade all the way to a MC-12 for a one-box DVD-Audio/SACD solution...
-Dan
 

Dan Harmer

Agent
Joined
Sep 11, 2002
Messages
30
There really is no comparison between circle surround and logic7...your back to the vw vs rolls royce analogy
Have you actually heard Circle Surround processing in a direct comparison to Logic 7? What unit did you sample it on? I'd like to understand what was so much better... can you elaborate?
 

Shawn Fogg

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Oct 5, 2001
Messages
223
Russ,

"has what they call Panorama which when switched on gives a more enveloping tie in to the surrounds. Very subtle and nice."

I don't like the Panorama setting at all. Play some material that starts out with just a single instrument in one channel and toggle Panorama on and off. With it on the instruments imaging gets smeared all between the front speaker and the surround. The MC-12 has all the adjustments for DPLII too.

Logic 7 has adjustments for:

Auto Azimuth
Vocal Enhance
Front Steering (PLIIs center width is similiar)
Re-Eq
Sound Stage (PLIIs dimension control is similiar)
Bass Enhance
Surround Roll Off
Rear Dly Offset

"Gotta try L7 on 7.1 if I can get my speakers hooked up."

You really should.

Gregory,

"but its logic7 is very close, at least to the mc1"

They probably are of a similiar version of Logic 7 but having those adjustments is very useful.

Dan,

"how many of you out there have compared Logic 7 laid over a 5.1/6.1 source to Circle Surround processing (like on the 1066) laid over those same sources?"

I didn't think the Rotel had SRS Circle Surround? Are you thinking of Cirrus Extended Surround with is similiar to DD EX or THX Surround EX decoding.

" It's unfortunate that you have to upgrade all the way to a MC-12 for a one-box DVD-Audio/SACD solution..."

Hence the baby 'MC-12' that is in development....

Shawn
 

Dan Harmer

Agent
Joined
Sep 11, 2002
Messages
30
Shawn, I probably am thing of the Cirrus Extended Surround--here's a snippet from the Rotel 1066 manual on Rotel's website:

"The RSP-1066 also features Rotel XS (eXtended
Surround) processing that automatically ensures
optimum extended surround performance on
6.1 and 7.1 channel systems. The key benefit
of Rotel XS is that it works at all times with
all multichannel digital signals, even those that
might not otherwise activate proper surround
decoding for the center back channel(s). Always
active in any system configured with center
back speaker(s), Rotel XS monitors the surround
channels, properly decodes them, and
distributes the extended surround channels to
the center back speaker(s). Rotel XS works with
matrix-encoded surround signals (such as
Dolby Surround EX discs and non-flagged DTS-ES)
as well as non-matrix digital source material
(such as DTS 5.1, Dolby Digital 5.1, and
even Dolby Pro Logic II decoded Dolby Digi-tal
2.0 recordings) to derive superb center back
channel surround effects."

I think the Outlaw folks call it something else... Anyway, how does Logic 7 compare to Rotel XS then for those of you that have sampled both pieces?

-Dan
 

Shawn Fogg

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Oct 5, 2001
Messages
223
Dan,

" Anyway, how does Logic 7 compare to Rotel XS then for those of you that have sampled both pieces? "

I haven't heard Cirrus Extended Surround but they had originally done that to offer a decoding method along the lines of THX Surround EX for processors that weren't THX certified. Then Dolby released DD EX which is available for non-THX equipment (as well as THX certified) which uses PLII to extract the back channel in contrast to THX Surround EX which used a form of DPL to do the back channel. All three of these extract a mono back channel.

Logic 7 extracts stereo rears and you can get surround pans that step through each speaker on its own. As far as DD EX and THX Surround EX is concerned (I have both in my MC-12) I prefer Logic 7 to them.

Shawn
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Similar Threads

Forum statistics

Threads
356,814
Messages
5,123,657
Members
144,184
Latest member
H-508
Recent bookmarks
0
Top