Laurel and Hardy restoration at UCLA (1 Viewer)

[Squire]

Regarding the recent buzz surrounding the Amazing find of the complete second Reel of Laurel & Hardy's THE BATTLE OF THE CENTURY, there has been some discrepancy about whether the Insurance segment with Eugene Pallette (Which is from the heretofore non extant portion of the Reel One) has also been found. In addition, the initial Fade In/Fadeout of Stan & Babe bumping into and tripping over things closes out Reel One, according to this shooting script from the 1990's Reconstructed version of TBOTC.

THE BATTLE OF THE CENTURY Shooting Script (From THE LOST FILMS OF LAUREL & HARDY, VOLUME 9 By Image Entertainment):

TBOTC - End Of Part 1 - Start Of Part 2.jpg

Hopefully, we'll find out more regarding the last few minutes of Reel One in due course!

CHEERS!

*******************************************UPDATE**********************************************

It has been reliably reported by Essanay Paul (Paul Mular) that the found footage consists of Reel Two, from beginning to end. Once the restoration is finished, THE BATTLE OF THE CENTURY will be about 90% complete!

Thanks for the update! I wondered about how intact the final product would be after watching the heretofore existing footage on YouTube. It's still great news! That's about the funniest pie fight ever and it will be great to finally see all of it!!

 

[Essanay Paul]

This past weekend we ran the 16mm U.S. premier of THE BATTLE OF THE CENTURY. We ran Blackhawk's reel 1 up to the second freeze frame of Eugene Pallette selling L&H the insurance, then we switched to the newly found 16mm print of reel 2. Over-all nothing really new is added, the scenes just play out much better. You see more of the banana peel segment and an explanation that this is an attempt to cash in on the insurance, there are more pies thrown, and the final scene with the policeman is there. It is a much more pleasant presentation, but to comments afterward were that everyone was expecting to see something totally new and they didn't. Robert Youngson did capture the essence of reel 2 in his condensation.


The found 16mm print has VINEGAR SYNDROME!!!!!! It has not warped or deteriorated yet, we are lucky it was found in time. In addition to Lobster Films making a 35mm negative, the Library of Congress is going to make a second negative (UCLA was strangely not interested).


The likeliness of it coming to Home Video is a bit slim due to rights issues. Lobster Films has NO Home Video rights. The European Home Video rights are held by a German company (who tried to confiscate the prints). The U.S. rights have been purchased by Corinth Films who doesn't see any financial reason to issue the silent L&H films on DVD or Blu-ray.


This soft image was taken by my cell phone, it had trouble focusing on the screen.

 

[Tony Bensley]

This past weekend we ran the 16mm U.S. premier of THE BATTLE OF THE CENTURY. We ran Blackhawk's reel 1 up to the second freeze frame of Eugene Pallette selling L&H the insurance, then we switched to the newly found 16mm print of reel 2. Over-all nothing really new is added, the scenes just play out much better. You see more of the banana peel segment and an explanation that this is an attempt to cash in on the insurance, there are more pies thrown, and the final scene with the policeman is there. It is a much more pleasant presentation, but to comments afterward were that everyone was expecting to see something totally new and they didn't. Robert Youngson did capture the essence of reel 2 in his condensation.


The found 16mm print has VINEGAR SYNDROME!!!!!! It has not warped or deteriorated yet, we are lucky it was found in time. In addition to Lobster Films making a 35mm negative, the Library of Congress is going to make a second negative (UCLA was strangely not interested).


The likeliness of it coming to Home Video is a bit slim due to rights issues. Lobster Films has NO Home Video rights. The European Home Video rights are held by a German company (who tried to confiscate the prints). The U.S. rights have been purchased by Corinth Films who doesn't see any financial reason to issue the silent L&H films on DVD or Blu-ray.


This soft image was taken by my cell phone, it had trouble focusing on the screen.

BattleCentury.JPG

Hi Paul!


That's not encouraging news regarding the unlikelihood of Home Video issue. I do strongly feel that this should be a case of the companies involved realizing the importance of this major find, and allowing for reasonable access to getting this issued to Home Video in some form. Not everybody has the means of getting to special designated festivals.


What do you think it might take to convince Corinth Films that the Laurel & Hardy silents are worth issuing? An online petition? Some sort of Kickstarter program? At the very least, I'd think that the right publicity for releasing a near complete "Battle Of The Century" should provide some incentive, or at least provide a litmus test for determining whether reissuing all of the team silents would be a worthwhile venture! Why not make THE BATTLE OF THE CENTURY a Flagship test for this?


What doesn't make sense to me is buying the Home Video rights to these Films, and then doing nothing! In that case, why not sublicense the Home Video rights at a rate in which everyone benefits, rather than no one, as seems to be the unfortunate status quo regarding the Laurel & Hardy team silents, at present?


Sincerely,


Tony

 

[bigshot]

Video companies buy rights in packages. Inevitably, there are films in the package they want to release and can make money on, and films that they have no interest in and see no way to turn a profit on. The only way to get films released that they don't see money in releasing is to license them like Olive Films does. But it costs money to license and prepare for release, so it takes deep pockets and up front money.

 

[Tony Bensley]

Video companies buy rights in packages. Inevitably, there are films in the package they want to release and can make money on, and films that they have no interest in and see no way to turn a profit on. The only way to get films released that they don't see money in releasing is to license them like Olive Films does. But it costs money to license and prepare for release, so it takes deep pockets and up front money.

I get all of that, but surely a Film by the all time most popular comedy duo with long lost footage found and restored has some marketability, even if the companies involved don't find it viable to reissue ALL of the Laurel & Hardy team silents? I mean, if a William Gillette Sherlock Holmes Silent Feature from 1916 that's been missing for almost a century can get almost instantaneous release, why not a near complete BATTLE OF THE CENTURY by Laurel & Hardy? The thought of Home Viewers still being stuck with only being able to view the truncated Pie Fight when the entire second reel now exists just seems such utter madness! Laurel & Hardy fans WILL buy this if only the companies involved make it available. It's not like the restoration work hasn't already been performed! How can they recoup the costs of that if they just bloody well keep it in a vault, for pity's sake?


Anyway, that's my opinion, for what it's worth!


CHEERS!

 

[dana martin]

the idea i had


http://www.hometheaterforum.com/topic/345271-if-you-won-the-powerball/page-2#entry4338523

 

[Essanay Paul]

Hi Paul!


What doesn't make sense to me is buying the Home Video rights to these Films, and then doing nothing! In that case, why not sublicense the Home Video rights at a rate in which everyone benefits, rather than no one, as seems to be the unfortunate status quo regarding the Laurel & Hardy team silents, at present?


Sincerely,


Tony

Hi Tony,


What is even more puzzling is that David Shepard wanted to buy the silent Laurel & Hardy's from the Feiner Family but Corinth Films made a higher offer. As far as I know this was not a package purchase, I don't believe the Feiners owned any other films.


So Corinth specifically bought Laurel & Hardy silent films.


It is sad that Hal Roach films keep getting purchased by companies not interested in them. The Hulu streaming videos are the old Agee transfers from 1997.


And speaking of David Shepard (Blackhawk Films & Film Preservation Associates), he still owns the 16mm distribution rights in the U.S. to all Hal Roach product. There could be some hope here.

 

[Tony Bensley]

Hi Tony,


What is even more puzzling is that David Shepard wanted to buy the silent Laurel & Hardy's from the Feiner Family but Corinth Films made a higher offer. As far as I know this was not a package purchase, I don't believe the Feiners owned any other films.


So Corinth specifically bought Laurel & Hardy silent films.


It is sad that Hal Roach films keep getting purchased by companies not interested in them. The Hulu streaming videos are the old Agee transfers from 1997.


And speaking of David Shepard (Blackhawk Films & Film Preservation Associates), he still owns the 16mm distribution rights in the U.S. to all Hal Roach product. There could be some hope here.

Hi Paul!


That last bit regarding David Shepard owning the 16mm U.S. distribution rights is a bit encouraging. The only thing is, it's also my understanding that what exists of Reel 1 was re scanned from 35mm Film Stock. Assuming that is correct, I'm not sure how Mr. Shepherd's having 16mm distribution rights would work, when 35mm sourcing is also used. Besides, European Based Lobster Films having release rights isn't exactly helping them at the moment either, since they can't access the actual BATTLE OF THE CENTURY footage in question! Isn't this the same deal where David Shepherd is concerned, or am I missing something?


For me, the most disheartening news of all pertains to the apparent lack of hope for a European Home Video release, as the rights issues over there have historically been less complicated regarding Hal Roach material, especially with the silents!


Regarding Corinth Films, I'd forgotten that they did reportedly almost have a deal with another company for issuing the Laurel & Hardy team silents, which would make sense out of their purchasing of the video release rights, though knowing that arrangement fell through, no less frustrating!


Hopefully, something can be done to facilitate the release of this historical find? At this point, I'd personally settle for a Digital Download release (Though Canada would more than likely be denied access, in this case!)--Anything to make the nearly complete BATTLE OF THE CENTURY available to the masses!


CHEERS!


Tony

 

[Rob W]

Mr. Shepard's rights to distribute the films in 16mm would not mean they have to be copied from 16mm materials. He has the rights to sell the titles in a specific format- regardless of what they're sourced from.

 

[Tony Bensley]

Mr. Shepard's rights to distribute the films in 16mm would not mean they have to be copied from 16mm materials. He has the rights to sell the titles in a specific format- regardless of what they're sourced from.

Hi Rob!


So, in other words, Dave Shepard can distribute the Laurel & Hardy team silents on 16mm Film, but NOT on DVD or Blu-ray that uses sources derived from 16mm Film. Is that correct?


CHEERS!


Tony

 

[Rob W]

Hi Rob!


So, in other words, Dave Shepard can distribute the Laurel & Hardy team silents on 16mm Film, but NOT on DVD or Blu-ray that uses sources derived from 16mm Film. Is that correct?


CHEERS!


Tony

Correct - if anyone anywhere is still actually printing 16mm film anymore. The gentleman himself could tell us that.


Just like 16mm, the DVD / Blu-Ray rights pertain to the distribution format, not the source material they're created from. The licensor of the DVD or Blu-Ray rights should normally have access to the best materials for mastering the discs should anyone pick them up.

 

[Essanay Paul]

FotoKem is still making 16mm, 35mm & 70mm film prints. http://fotokem.com/services/film_laboratory.php

We use them to make new 35mm prints for our archive. They can even convert 28mm master films to 35mm.

While the film lab that Blackhawk Films used shut down years ago, David could make new prints if he wanted to.

The big problem is cost, a new 16mm print of a two-reel comedy would be well over $200.


And yes, Rob is correct. David can source any format to make his 16mm release prints.


FotoKem locations:

Los Angeles
2801 W. Alameda
Burbank, CA 91505


Tel: 818-846-3102
800-fotokem (outside CA)

Will Call: 8pm Sunday to 7pm Friday
Open 24hrs in-between

Map

New York
1841 Broadway, Suite 801
New York, NY 10023

Tel: 646-578-8670

Map

New Orleans
800 Richard Street, Suite 2R
New Orleans, Louisiana 70130

Tel: 504-299-4545

Map


Atlanta
Pershing Point Plaza
1375 Peachtree Street NE, Suite A12
Atlanta, Georgia 30309

Tel: 404-334-3660

 

[Sa5150]

I was just wondering has anyone heard of any updates from the UCLA restoration ? Is the Essential dvd collection for the talkies shorts still the best to buy till there hopefully might be a bluray collection someday ?

What are the must own full length movies that L&H did that I should be trying to look for (that's if there even available), I have a region free player so don't matter what country there from ?

I get bummed thinking why they have not done the three stooges yet on bluray when there stuff looks so beautiful and most of the shorts are still intact . And now we finally are getting the Marx brothers on blu (first 5 movies) , Even if there still missing footage those first 5 movies on dvd are in rough shape so I'm so looking forward to the blu's . L&H ,Stooges and the Marx brothers are my all time greatest comedy heroes .

 

[bigshot]

Chaplin, Lloyd and Keaton are covered well on blu-ray (or will be eventually). That leaves Our Gang and W C Fields without good blu-ray representation.

 

[Tony Bensley]

I was just wondering has anyone heard of any updates from the UCLA restoration ? Is the Essential dvd collection for the talkies shorts still the best to buy till there hopefully might be a bluray collection someday ?

What are the must own full length movies that L&H did that I should be trying to look for (that's if there even available), I have a region free player so don't matter what country there from ?

I get bummed thinking why they have not done the three stooges yet on bluray when there stuff looks so beautiful and most of the shorts are still intact . And now we finally are getting the Marx brothers on blu (first 5 movies) , Even if there still missing footage those first 5 movies on dvd are in rough shape so I'm so looking forward to the blu's . L&H ,Stooges and the Marx brothers are my all time greatest comedy heroes .

With Laurel & Hardy, Blu-ray and other HD availability is rather a mixed bag.

Insofar as their Blu-ray representation, their 1930s heyday is limited to Legend Films MARCH OF THE WOODEN SOLDIERS (BABES IN TOYLAND) from 1934, and THE FLYING DEUCES (1939). For the latter, I recommend the All Regions UK based Network On Air version released last year, which is quite simply, the best I've ever seen of that title! BABES IN TOYLAND is a bit tricky, as I've seen reviews that state the image is softer than the original black & white only 2008 MGM DVD. I can attest the top notch (For DVD) visual quality of the MGM disc! On the other hand, Legend Films has had two Blu-ray releases, with the 2010 release of the b&w / colorized version, and a 2012 colorized 3-D version.

In case you're interested, Stan & Ollie's six 1940s 20th Century Fox Features are also available on Blu-ray in Region B, though without the extras that are included on the Region 1 DVDs.

Apart from that, only for residents of the U.S. and its Territories, HD versions of The Essential Collection Titles are available as Digital Downloads via Amazon and iTunes. Apart from that, DVD is still the only option for these, I'm afraid. The last time I checked, the latter was priced at around $46 U.S. at Amazon.com.

I hope this helps?

CHEERS!

 

[bigshot]

The Fox features are out on blu-ray in Europe... Jitterbugs, Dancing Masters, Bullfighters, Big Noise, A-Haunting We Will Go... They were released in Finland or Norway or something like that. The disc mastering is funky, but they are HD from good prints. I don't think Nothing But Trouble or Atoll K are out there though.

 

[Tony Bensley]

The Fox features are out on blu-ray in Europe... Jitterbugs, Dancing Masters, Bullfighters, Big Noise, A-Haunting We Will Go... They were released in Finland or Norway or something like that. The disc mastering is funky, but they are HD from good prints. I don't think Nothing But Trouble or Atoll K are out there though.

ATOLL K (1951) is definitely not on Blu-ray, and I don't recall seeing anything about their two 1940's MGM Features (AIR RAID WARDENS, and the aforementioned NOTHING BUT TROUBLE) having been issued to Blu-ray anywhere, either.

Also worth noting is although not on Blu-ray, Warner did issue an excellent (For DVD!) TCM Archives 2 DVD set of THE DEVIL'S BROTHER (1933) and BONNIE SCOTLAND (1935) back in 2006, which can still be had at reasonable pricing. Both features are on one disc, and include excellent commentary by Film Historians Leonard Maltin and Richard W. Bann. The second disc includes Stan & Ollie's Feature Film Guest appearances, plus a full length documentary detailing the Hollywood short films golden age.

CHEERS!

 

[Sa5150]

With Laurel & Hardy, Blu-ray and other HD availability is rather a mixed bag.

Insofar as their Blu-ray representation, their 1930s heyday is limited to Legend Films MARCH OF THE WOODEN SOLDIERS (BABES IN TOYLAND) from 1934, and THE FLYING DEUCES (1939). For the latter, I recommend the All Regions UK based Network On Air version released last year, which is quite simply, the best I've ever seen of that title! BABES IN TOYLAND is a bit tricky, as I've seen reviews that state the image is softer than the original black & white only 2008 MGM DVD. I can attest the top notch (For DVD) visual quality of the MGM disc! On the other hand, Legend Films has had two Blu-ray releases, with the 2010 release of the b&w / colorized version, and a 2012 colorized 3-D version.

In case you're interested, Stan & Ollie's six 1940s 20th Century Fox Features are also available on Blu-ray in Region B, though without the extras that are included on the Region 1 DVDs.

Apart from that, only for residents of the U.S. and its Territories, HD versions of The Essential Collection Titles are available as Digital Downloads via Amazon and iTunes. Apart from that, DVD is still the only option for these, I'm afraid. The last time I checked, the latter was priced at around $46 U.S. at Amazon.com.

I hope this helps?

CHEERS!

On the essential collection are they cropped as some of the posts on amazon are comparing them to the giant box from the uk ? The picture looks so much better on the usa I think . Are those downloads real 1080 or just unconverted ? I think i'm going to try and get the essential's on ebay . Looks like it's been going for a steal of a price of late . Thank you guys for all the movie advice . I remember enjoying the before 1940 era much more .

 

[bujaki]

I get all of that, but surely a Film by the all time most popular comedy duo with long lost footage found and restored has some marketability, even if the companies involved don't find it viable to reissue ALL of the Laurel & Hardy team silents? I mean, if a William Gillette Sherlock Holmes Silent Feature from 1916 that's been missing for almost a century can get almost instantaneous release, why not a near complete BATTLE OF THE CENTURY by Laurel & Hardy? The thought of Home Viewers still being stuck with only being able to view the truncated Pie Fight when the entire second reel now exists just seems such utter madness! Laurel & Hardy fans WILL buy this if only the companies involved make it available. It's not like the restoration work hasn't already been performed! How can they recoup the costs of that if they just bloody well keep it in a vault, for pity's sake?


Anyway, that's my opinion, for what it's worth!


CHEERS!

This is what I understand of the situation so far. The restoration of The Battle of the Century done by Serge Bromberg of Lobster Films has been making the rounds in some USA venues. He's been touring with it; that's how I caught up with it. Because of legal complications, chances of it being released in North America are, at this point, slim. There's a greater chance of it being released in Europe, where the home video rights are not as entangled.

 

[Tony Bensley]

This is what I understand of the situation so far. The restoration of The Battle of the Century done by Serge Bromberg of Lobster Films has been making the rounds in some USA venues. He's been touring with it; that's how I caught up with it. Because of legal complications, chances of it being released in North America are, at this point, slim. There's a greater chance of it being released in Europe, where the home video rights are not as entangled.

Actually and quite sadly, due to some additional complications involving rights, the restored version of THE BATTLE OF THE CENTURY'S release to DVD or Blu-ray anywhere appear unlikely for the foreseeable future, although 16mm is a possibility. I wish I could be more positive, but that's how it appears at the moment! I believe this has to do with the owner of the actual film differing from those who have the DVD / Blu-ray release rights, but not the 16mm Film release rights.

We can only hope that some kind of cooperative arrangement can be made at some point. I for one, find the above situation sad and depressing, kind of like being told you've just won a million dollars, but you can't actually access it because your bank won't accept that particular lottery's checks, or something equally absurd! My point is, so close to paradise, yet so far away at the same time, due to other parties unwilling and / or unable to work together.

Ideally, Laurel & Hardy fans should be able to view this long lost cut of THE BATTLE OF THE CENTURY (1927) on their DVD / Blu-ray devices. Frankly, I find the fact there's been no home video release, or even any pending announcement of one more than 14 months after the missing footage's unearthing an appalling testament to greed and bureaucracy getting in the way, at least at some level! This is just my opinion, and I'm sorry if this comes off a bit harsh to any of the parties involved, but that's the way I feel about it, at present! Theatrical presentations are well and good, but not everyone can make it to such events, and many more people should be allowed the privilege of viewing this historically significant Film restoration in the comfort of their own homes!

CHEERS!