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Kenwood VR-6070 closeout at BB: worth it? (1 Viewer)

Al Holland

Grip
Joined
Mar 25, 2003
Messages
18
From StevieP
---------------------------------------------------------
__OK ALL,
How can the the 6070 make a good pre/pro without any adjustable bass management? And for that matter, EQ ?

__________________________________________________ ________

Stevie,
My listening is about 70% television, 25% HT and 5% stereo music. I really like the new multi channel music but no longer invest enough in CD's to be concerned with buying equipment geared in that direction.

How many receivers or pre/pro's have good bass management? I do not know of any in the price range of the 6070 and most all are very deficient in bass management.
As for an EQ: you may prefer this but I personally do not use any type of tone controls. I still have an old EQ around but it is used as an analyzer for speaker level adjustments only. All reports indicate that an EQ should not be used for multi-channel formats. Again this is only an opionion and you should decide for yourself.

Sorry for the length of this post.
 

Lucas Dang

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Apr 5, 2000
Messages
164
I have been discussing the 6070 at length on another forum. I posted to the Capt that I did appreciate his input re THD, but I disagreed that the 6060 was the same as the 6070, and that clipping and overheating to shutdown was anything other than a defect and not the norm. I also wrote that THX cert should account for something comparing 6060 to the 6070 which someone posted the exact differences attributed to the THX extras in the 6070.

Stevie, I think the 6070 has fairly good bass management. You can send all the base to the fronts, or the sub, or to both. I am also fond of the Bass Peak feature. You can also adjust just the Treble and Bass. I may be clueless to what other Bass Management you are refering to.

AFter reading all the posts on this thread, I would like to add that the Capt even noticed less hissing in his recent retesting of his Kenwood. I think that the cables, speaker wire, quality-tight connection-interference- and Lenght all can change how a system sounds.

In the other thread I believe the Capt stated he purchased his Kenwood 6060 for 600-800$. The current price of the 6070 is as low as 279. I got one from Ecost, and I truly dont believe it is a refurb as it appears new in the box down to every detail and no refurb indicator markings. My argument is that at this price its a great prepro, and IMHO and S&V's opion its a great all in one receiver.

I have my Kenwood set up for a few days in my house now. I have been running it very loud enjoying all the dvds I have that are DTS ES and DD EX. It runs no hotter than my previous 1200$ receiver (the house is even hot due to the weather) and sounds much better. I'll eventually get a seperate amp, but for now Its doing its job. Can anyone recommend some good (meaning cheap) separate amps or monoblocks.

I dont think anyone attacked the Capt other than disagreeing and continuing the arguement. I do feel that if you have a bad experience it doesnt mean that its helpful to warn others not to buy the product unless you are sure that it is a widespread defect, which does not appear to be the case.

Im sure we all have heard from someone regarding Car purchases, "I would never buy ---- brand car, I had one before and it kept breaking down. The truth is that every single car manufacturer has cars that break down or have multiple problems. That person's experience is as simple as that, one person's experience. Thats why people read magazine, consumer reports, and internet reviews. It should take more than one persons review or experience with a product to be anywhere near an acurate representation of its performance.


Thanks to my new 6070 I will be having a great weekend.

PS. I tried an expensive Dennon in my home on my setup, and also found it to be too bright and tinny sounding. It gets the Wendy's stamp "wheres the beef?"
 

ScottRCapt

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Messages
80
I don’t think anyone attacked the Capt other than disagreeing and continuing the argument. I do feel that if you have a bad experience it doesn’t mean that its helpful to warn others not to buy the product unless you are sure that it is a widespread defect, which does not appear to be the case.
As I have mentioned, several times before, I am not the only person on this forum to report that the VR-6060/6070 runs hot. Additionally, as for the others in this thread discounting the THD numbers reported by Kenwood USA. I realize you would rather believe a magazine article, (not knowing what standards they used to test the unit), than the manufacturer who designed, built and marketed the unit. But I really do not think Kenwood would publish false numbers on it's website and in it's manuals when it comes to specs that could reduce sales. If the THD were .05% all around, Kenwood would say so. The specs are exactly the same between the 6060,6070 and 7070 all three have the same exact amp and power supply.

What makes the 6070 a THX receiver? Maybe a set bass management level at 80 Hertz?

I just found this on the THX site that seems to support the fact that even though the 6060 and the 6070 have the same amp, there may be a difference, although I don't know how...

Excerpt from THX:
"Best Amplifier Performance
Unlike a separate stand alone amplifier, receiver amplifier sections are already assigned a particular channel such as left, center, right, left surround, right surround, etc. Extensive research conducted by THX Ltd, and others has shown that for even the most demanding program material the center channel requires more power that the left and right. Additionally, the surround channels require only a fraction of the power needed by the surround channels, particularly when using a four-speaker surround array. This fact allows a receiver design engineer to optimize the performance of each amp to best match the power requirements of that channel, instead of designing every amp section to the power requirements needed for a center channel. As a result THX Certified receivers play louder than other comparably priced non-THX Certified receivers without distorting or breaking."

So... Lucas, There you go... I concede that point by THX.

Another Excerpt from Crutchfield Site:

THD (total harmonic distortion)
A measurement of the accuracy of an amplifier (or the amplifier section of a receiver). THD refers to the amount of internally generated noise. The lower the number, the better



:b
 

Lucas Dang

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Apr 5, 2000
Messages
164
"You say that you can adjust the treble and bass, but you fail to mention that you can only do that when the unit is in the Stereo only mode."

I didnt realize that being brand new to the receiver, but thats a good point, and I already acknowledged that I didnt know much about Bass Management.

Capt, I apologize for attributing inacurate quotes to you. This is a friendly forum, and I have repeatedly stated I respect your opinion and our differences. I wasnt aware of any of my posts being unfriendly. My defensiveness is based on the principal of the arguement here, not because I now own the Kenwood. I concede that it is not as good as your Sony ES or the HK. I am more concerned about specifics of some of not all of your concerns.

For example: while you say the unit runs hot, and that others have reported similar problems, I have not read from others that the unit clips or shuts down. Without taking into account the variables of your speaker wiring and actual speaker impediance load, I believe your receiver shutting down while watching a DVD or listening to Rock Music as more than likely a defect particular to your receiver, not all of the 6070s, and not most of them.

I watched 5 DVDs back to back last night at full volume. The receiver felt warm, but was no hotter than any other amp I have tried. I also played some music CDs including rock. The only problem I encountered was that I woke my wife up a few times. I also heard no hissing for THD. I even hooked up my beloved Triad music only speakers to the surround channels, these speakers are some of the clearest Ive ever heard, distortion would be very apparent on them, yet none was heard. But unless I have past a hearing test or had a special hissing measurement device, even this type of result is completely subjective. And thats the point, its all subjective, even the magazine reviewer. What's most objective is the consensus from people who have tried the product and have posted their opinions and results. I look at the reviews all together as a whole, and thats why I disagree with your results because they appear to be isolated to just your unit.

From the Magazine Sound and Vision November 2002 pg126, Earning the Badge: RE THX certification:

"On the performan side, THX receivers adn controllers must meet stringent requirements that call for very low noise, low crosstalk between channels and generous headroom in the power amp section...THX certified amplifiers must have low noise and distortion, high power outpiut, and plenty of headroom to avoid clipping distortion druing loud peaks. "


Capt you wrote:
"I realize you would rather believe a magazine article, (not knowing what standards they used to test the unit), than the manufacturer who designed, built and marketed the unit."

I believe that the magazine does sufficiently state the standards they use to test equiptment. Also while the Manufacturer's specs should be acurate, that is not always the case. Sometimes they dont put out the highest marks, because they werent able to produce those results a certain percentage through all tests, or they have competing lines that would not benefit them touting too high of specs (Marketing), Sound and Vision openly stated that the power rated higher than manufacturer specs, so its not the Kenwood is listing wrong specs, but it is possible that manufacturers often list modest ones.

I'm not arguing to be defensive. I have already stated how satisfied I am of my purchase despite negative critisim. I am a believer of the "as long as it sounds good to you" moto. I did a lot of reading and reseach on multiple forums and web sites. The 6070 got outstanding reviews from owners and reviewers. So when you started posting your criticism of the 6070 while owning a hot running seemingly defective 6060, I wanted to question your argument's validity. Not your validity. I respect all forum member's opinions.




I wish all systems came with an RF learning remote!
 

Al Holland

Grip
Joined
Mar 25, 2003
Messages
18
RobWil,
Sounds like two first names. Do you have relatives in Tennessee?

Actually we are all only related on our sister's family side and not our brothers like in CA.
 

RobWil

Supporting Actor
Joined
Mar 17, 2003
Messages
733
LOL! Touche!
Actually my first/middle names are Robert William.
Bobby Bill???? Sounds better the other way like Billy Bob!
We all hail from Kin-tucky on my mom's side. My wifes from Ar-kin-sas.
I won't mention my last name or else y'all might look my ass up ;)
 

Al Holland

Grip
Joined
Mar 25, 2003
Messages
18
WilBob,

We might be kin. Daddy was a trucker. He spent some of his last years runnin thru Kaintuck hauling grain fer Jack Daniels.
 

ScottRCapt

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Messages
80
Re: Lucas Dang Quote:
I'd go with the Yammy. Both companies are honest about their ratings, but Kenwood uses different standards for the surrounds than the rest of the system. They rate for 0.09% THD on all channels (including the center surround) EXCEPT the left and right surrounds, which are rated at 0.7% THD (which is NOT an insignificant difference).
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...highlight=6070

Myo K Wrote:

I’m sorry I’m fairly new to the audio world, the 6070 was my first receiver i used with my speakers, and I had a friend who’s into speakers and audio components come by and test it out.

I played the receiver at light listening levels, I didn’t need it too loud, and I always thought it sounded great, then when my friend test it out, he told me to raise the volume, and after a certain point in volume level, the detail and clarity of the sound had a dramatic jump almost instantaneously, with no gradual change, just an instant jump. This clarity and detail was non-existent at my regular listening levels, and I had to actually play them at somewhat med-loud listening levels to hear it.

He informed me that it sounds like the receiver was under powering the speakers and I had to play the volume at a specific sound level to get the full sound.

I was also informed by people in general that a lot of marketing comes into play, isn’t it always better to trust your ears, then to trust a review or company specs?

of course my ears are no where near experienced enough to know what under power sounds like, since this was my first receiver. i do know it gets loud when I pass a certain volume level.

i eventually had to return the receiver because i kept getting popping noises when i raised an lowered the volume, tested it with two different speakers and found it was the receivers fault and not the speakers.

i asked around and asked sales people and got different answers, from the receiver being low current amp, to clipping from under power, to bi-product of digital amplification.

how this receiver got thx certification? i do not know, how its able to sell for sub 300 dollar price range and still maintain thx certification? i do not know. Personally, I think a lot of it may be marketing? I’m the last person that should be speaking about the subject since I’m fairly Noob to audio.

But I do know 3 things for sure, this amp is low current, i got popping interference from raising and lowering the volume and i get a massive jump in sound clarity instantaneously after turning the volume up past a certain number. Stephen maybe you can enlighten me on what may have been the problem if it weren’t a power output issue?


Stephen K Wrote:

The popping when raising and lowering volumes has come up before and isn't demonstrated in all 6070s, it's evidently a flaw that some have but most don't.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...highlight=6070

Myo K Wrote:

I had a Kenwood 6070 but returned it because of defection, and there were no more units left at BB, that receiver had audio that was good enough for me to listen to music, but those receivers are discontinued and sounded as if it was under powering the speakers since the level of sound quality jump dramatically after the volume knob passed the 2/5thhs mark

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...highlight=6070

Jeremy Anderson Wrote:

Just a mention: Unless you're just strapped for cash, go with Denon or H/K over the Kenwood if you listen anywhere near reference level. Denon and H/K rate power using the same standard on all channels, where Kenwood uses 0.7% THD on the surrounds and 0.09% THD on the other channels (which is a MASSIVE difference). Not trying to anger Kenwood fans or anything, but every Kenwood I've heard has noisy surrounds at reference even with efficient speakers. Most importantly, audition receivers and play with the features before buying.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...highlight=6070

Myo K Wrote:

I have yet to find any store to carry this receiver i used to have a Kenwood 6070 but it was defective so i returned it, im still waiting for my refund check from BB, anyone else know if Best Buy will carry this receiver on the sales floor?

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...highlight=6070

------------------------------------------------------------

The following quotes are from Ecoustics.com
http://www.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/1/624.html

Lee Carbay Wrote:

I do not think you can adjust the mains without hearing the tones. On my Kenwood you can't either. You have to take a reading from the disk go into the test tone menu make an adjustment and them go back to the disk and check it again. Go back and forth until you get it correct. If you start with one of your mains and set it to reference with disk and match all the other speakers up to it you will only have to go through this inconvenience once.


Arthur S Wrote:

Kevin

Having to use the test tones is an unfortunate aspect of the 6070. I've spoken to Kenwood techs and there is no other way to do it.

The good news is that I have some idea of the bass peak limiter. Mine was set at -30db and I wasn't getting enough volume from my sub. I changed it to -20 and now I get plenty of bass.

The other one is the Subwoofer Re-Mix. Turning that on also adds more bass. Some of this is keeping the bass in the front channels. If you don't have front speakers that can really handle bass you may want to leave the ReMix off.

I think the owners manual talks about the ReMix.

Artie

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...highlight=6070

Kevinkall Wrote:

I'm in the process of setting up my speakers for a 6.1 setup and was wondering if I should use the test tones coming from the receiver or the Video Essentials test tones in order to setup my speakers? Is there a difference? I'm asking because the only way I can setup my speakers on my receiver (KENWOOD 6070) is by going thru the test tones.

Since my receiver can only save 1 set of levels (I'm guessing), should I even worry about the DTS levels. About 90% of the movies that I watch are in Dolby Digital with just a few DTS ones. I do want to get the best sound possible from the setup that I have. Is it worth it?

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...highlight=6070

Ken Daniel Writes:

Question for anyone: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 12:54 pm
I can't seem to find out how to tweak the THX select settings. It says, everywhere the VR 6070 is purchased (even Kenwood's website), that you have the ability to mess with timbre matching, decorrelation etc. However there is no mention of this in the Manual (other than where the THX button is and how to turn it on) Am I forgetting something or not looking in the right place. I can find how to mess with all of the other settings except this one. Or is it the case where THX handles these tweaks automatically based on your speaker setups or do I need to use a THX certified disc with the THX optimizer (Like terminator 2 ultimate dvd) to access these features. I look forward to a response and this is a great message board.

Dman Responds:

Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 01:45 pm

Ken Daniel : As you suggest, the THX setting handles all of these tweaks automatically and there is no way to play with these. These are features of THX and they (THX) actually set the requirements for this. I am not sure if it is influenced by speaker settings, but it does a number of things such as frequency rolloffs and the other technical stuff that is mentioned. Of course this should be applied to a pure Dolby Digital signal and should not theoretically be applied when using other surround modes.

Also from Dman:

Oh yeah, for THX explanations check out this link

http://www.polkaudio.com/home/faqad/...rticle=formats

Also stolen from the Polk Audio website:

The THX Exception
(NOTE: Read this section only if you have a THX certified receiver or processor.) Receivers and processors that are THX certified are required to have a very specific set of bass management filters that are active when the processor is set to THX mode. All channels (front, center and surround) are automatically high-pass filtered at 80Hz (the bass is taken out below 80Hz), the subwoofer output jack is turned on and low pass filtered at 80Hz. For many speaker set-ups this is a good configuration. For a system of bookshelf or small floor-standing speakers with a powered sub with an unfiltered line input, this filter set is a good choice. But if your speakers are small satellites or large floor-standers with built-in sub-woofers, this filter set may result in poor performance.

To avoid the standard THX bass management filters, do not engage the THX function of your processor. The processor will revert to its standard user-configured bass management system. As THX is not a surround processing system per se, but an enhancement of Dolby surround processing, you do not need to engage the THX mode to properly decode any surround source.

Jeffery Writes:

I have a question for anyone using the 6070 with a DVD to play DTS music dvd's (not audio, but DTS tracks encoded in 5 or 6 channel format that a 96KHz decoder can play). My issue is that my 3-year-old JVC DVD player, xv501, plays DTS and DTS ES tracks fine. However, when I try and play the DTS music, it clips out during heavy passages as if the decoder is being overworked. I switch to the Dolby version of the same tracks and it works fine. I would like to know if someone else has played such DVD's thru their 6070 with a different DVD player cause it will help me isolate it to my DVD player?
Thanks
David Dobsky Writes:

Monday, January 20, 2003 - 11:03 am

Hello,

Have any of you had issues with the thermal overload kicking in on the 6070 with a multi speaker setup and if so, how did you fix it? Has anyone needed to go so far as to add a fan to blow air thru the unit? Thanks in advance

Dman Writes Again:

January 21, 2003 - 11:43 am

Andy, Zrockin - check out my previous post from January 16 regarding THX. THX is not a format like Dolby Digital or DTS (Digital Theater Systems). It is a set of 'filters' for lack of a better word, applied to the surround format (DD/DTS) that alters the sound to theoretically better mimic a movie theater in the home environment. While having all THX certified equipment in your setup is the absolute optimal for getting the THX benefit, it is not absolutely necessary. In fact, depending on your system turning on THX processing can degrade performance. This is actually true for my system. One of the 'filters' turned on when THX mode is enabled is an 80 Hz cutoff between the speakers and subwoofer. If your speakers can't play down to 80 Hz without rolling off you will actually be losing some of your frequency spectrum (the midrange). Conversely your sub has to be able to play up to 80 Hz without rolling off (not a problem for most subs). I have tiny satellites due to space constraints and have wired my system to avoid this from happening. My wiring also defeats the THX mode on the receiver, as I don't use the LFE jack. So yes, THX speakers will guarantee you get the THX benefit, but are they absolutely necessary? No. Hope that helps. S&V has a THX article posted on their website and you can always check out the THX web-page.

Anonymous Writes:

Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 11:04 am

Hey, guys I have the vr6070, I am using a Sony turntable via the phono input. When I PLAY a record in 2-channel mode it tends to clip at higher levels. This is frustrating. I want to go as loud as possible without clipping. How do I do this SAFELY? How long can the 6070 play loud until it overheats and clips? I have Polk audio r50 speakers. Thanks.

Pierre Writes:

Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 12:47 pm

Hey Guys I finally bought the K VR6070. I need urgent input from the subject matter experts. Here the scoop. I have turned on my receiver and my CD player as well (on CD/DVD). Great music so far, next I have selected DVD 3, (keeping the CD playing, my DVD player still turned off.
Situation: when I increase the volume close to and above 0 Db, I here a little bit of music coming from the CD player (very low on right channel and twice as loud on left channel). If I turn the CD player off, I here humm or sh.......... from my tweeters instead (note that your ear has to be very close to the tweeter to hear these sounds).

Is this normal, is it reasonable to expect this sound output from a $ 800 Cdn Receiver or should I return it to the store for replacement (I still have 5 days to do this.

Jeffery Writes:

Anyone that just runs the 6070 up without any inputs on or active will notice the noise floor at after -10 on the dial if listening attentively, and then on my unit, I notice that from +3 to +4, there is a click and the noise floor kicks in way more, very noticeably.

Dion Writes:

Sunday, February 02, 2003 - 07:49 pm

I just have a question regarding my VR-6070.
Whenever I watch DVD’s I notice that I have to turn the amp pretty much up to -10dB in order to get a good movie experience since the volume isn't really that loud at -20 or under. In some cases, movies that support DTS, I notice the sound decreases even further, which forces me to turn the amp up to 0dB for good viewing. I am running audio through optical and using Sony SA-VE525 series speakers, which are 120watts max each. Would anyone know whether this is a problem? Either with the amp or whether I need larger or more powerful speakers?
Thanks

Rex Carson Writes:

I posted earlier about some advantages of the Pioneer vs. the Kenwood, such as assigning a specific video connector to a chosen input selection, a higher mhz component video switching which supports HDTV, a variable crossover for the sub, being able to adjust the relative speakers volumes for EACH surround mode independently, and speaker posts which can be used to connect 2 SB speakers.
 

ScottRCapt

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Messages
80
For those who are wondering what exactly THX gives you when you buy a THX "certified" receiver.

Excerpt from Polk Audio Web Site:
http://www.polkaudio.com/home/faqad/...rticle=formats

Home THX components are not necessarily better or worse than other products: they have simply earned THX approval by conforming to all THX-mandated specifications. Once the product has been submitted to Lucasfilm, LTD (the company that developed and licenses the THX standard) and passed a battery of tests, it can wear a "THX Approved" badge. In order to be a true THX system, all the audio components in that system--processor, amplifier, speakers and subwoofer--should be THX-approved. But that does not mean that THX and non THX components cannot be used together, they can.

And yet, although THX guarantees a certain, minimum standard of certain types of performance, many of the best products are not THX approved. Why? Audio manufacturers often choose to forego THX certification because either A) they believe THX specifications actually compromise performance (for example, many speaker manufacturers assert that THX-mandated dispersion patterns can negatively affect sound quality) or B) they decline to pay, and pass on to their customers, the licensing fees demanded by Lucasfilm.

So, should you buy THX-approved gear? That depends. For inexpensive, entry level gear, THX-approval guarantees a minimum standard of quality: a THX-approved receiver of amplifier will drive a variety of loudspeakers and, conversely, THX-approved speakers will work with most amps. So will most non-THX components! It would be foolish to ignore a product simply because it has or hasn't been THX certified. What's more, most high quality "high end" products are not THX-approved. If you need an "official seal of approval", THX might be worthwhile. But remember: you can build an excellent home theater independent of THX certification. When in doubt, trust your ears.
 

Lucas Dang

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Apr 5, 2000
Messages
164
Thanks for the readers digest. It still seams one sided. For every negative report you provided, I have read three times as much praise. Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, you did not provide every comment made anywhere on the 6070, but to say I didnt look close enough is incorrect. I actually took the time to read what you presented, and I still feel that the majority of reports and reviews I have seen were positive. Even looking at the information you provided did not make for a very strong argument.

I have also read numerous times that refurbished does not always constitute returned products that needed to be fixed. If you would like you could spend the next year researching this statement I have heard for years on this forum and elsewhere. My unit is not refurbished, but the ones that are could possibly be other than defective returns.

Why would Polk Audio Website be the authority on THX. The article hardly explains the mystery behind THX certification. Does Polk even have THX certified products?
Are the excerpts you provided now supposed to defunct THX altogether? It seems that perhaps you are more defensive than I, since your 6060 did not have THX Processing and certification, that you would like to prove how unnecessary or flawed THX is?

The concern about distortion noises when turning up the volume quickly has been discussed, and the information I read attributes this to the digital processing when turning up the sound. Again its a small detail that may bother some but shouldnt be a decision killer for a receiver of this quality at 300$.

I dont have to have the last word so feel free to post a rebutle, but I would like to say I am done with this thread. It seems pointless now, its going on and on, we still disagree and there wont be any changing that. I would rather spend my time on more constructive or informative threads. I apologize for beating this dead horse. Im sorry that I cannot concede to your points, but I have the 6070 set up in my home theater, have been running it all weekend, and really enjoy it. You could say that it is a Bose Lifestyle Marketing Hype dupe of the American Consumer, or that its really an Audiovox rebadged, It still wouldnt change my mind because I have thoroughly tested it in my own home with demanding play hours on end without a glitch, while experiencing amazing power and clarity. Its the best 279$ THX EX, DTS ES, DD EX, Prologic2, SRS Circle Surround 6.1 receiver with RF learning remote I have ever heard!

Anyway, Thanks for your efforts and input.
 

Al Holland

Grip
Joined
Mar 25, 2003
Messages
18
Jeremy Anderson Wrote:

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd go with the Yammy. Both companies are honest about their ratings, but Kenwood uses different standards for the surrounds than the rest of the system. They rate for 0.09% THD on all channels (including the center surround) EXCEPT the left and right surrounds, which are rated at 0.7% THD (which is NOT an insignificant difference).
------------------------------------------------------------
I have owned Yamaha (low end up to their RXV1). I always got distortion in my sub with this brand of receiver.

-------------------------------------------------
Myo K Wrote:

I’m sorry I’m fairly new to the audio world, the 6070 was my first receiver i used with my speakers, and I had a friend who’s into speakers and audio components come by and test it out.

I played the receiver at light listening levels, I didn’t need it too loud, and I always thought it sounded great, then when my friend test it out, he told me to raise the volume, and after a certain point in volume level, the detail and clarity of the sound had a dramatic jump almost instantaneously, with no gradual change, just an instant jump. This clarity and detail was non-existent at my regular listening levels, and I had to actually play them at somewhat med-loud listening levels to hear it.

He informed me that it sounds like the receiver was under powering the speakers and I had to play the volume at a specific sound level to get the full sound.

---------------------------------------------------------
All of the receivers and seperates that I have owned or listened to had better detail and clarity at mid to loud listening levels (I presently have a 200 watt Sherbourn that is like this and a friend has a dedicated theater with over $50,000 of equipment that is the same way). This is not indicative of low powered amps but has more to do with the design and efficiency of the speakers. I have Paradigm Monitor 11's and they like power. They produced as much bass using the 6070 as with the Sherbourn For the record:they will produce a lot of bass.

---------------------------------------------------
Jeremy Anderson Wrote:

Just a mention: Unless you're just strapped for cash, go with Denon or H/K over the Kenwood if you listen anywhere near reference level. Denon and H/K rate power using the same standard on all channels, where Kenwood uses 0.7% THD on the surrounds and 0.09% THD on the other channels (which is a MASSIVE difference). Not trying to anger Kenwood fans or anything, but every Kenwood I've heard has noisy surrounds at reference even with efficient speakers. Most importantly, audition receivers and play with the features before buying.
---------------------------------------------------------
My experience with Denon has been terrible. I have owned the 4800 and 5800 series. They were shallow and bright sounding. Bass was almost non existant without a subwoofer.
My H/K sounded great at lower levels but at mid levels it started to distort. I personally believe that the hype about high current is over emphasized. The H/K also put a hiss in all speakers when the volume was turned up and no source was playing (most all brands will, some are just too bad to accept).

---------------------------------
Lee Carbay Wrote:

I do not think you can adjust the mains without hearing the tones. On my Kenwood you can't either. You have to take a reading from the disk go into the test tone menu make an adjustment and them go back to the disk and check it again. Go back and forth until you get it correct. If you start with one of your mains and set it to reference with disk and match all the other speakers up to it you will only have to go through this inconvenience once.

-------------------------------------------------------
Why not just use the tone generator in the receiver. I have never gotten better balance adjustments with a disc that with the tones.

----------------------------------------------------
Hello,

Have any of you had issues with the thermal overload kicking in on the 6070 with a multi speaker setup and if so, how did you fix it? Has anyone needed to go so far as to add a fan to blow air thru the unit? Thanks in advance
--------------------------------------------------------
Unless an amp is over driven or stored in a location where it can not get sufficient cooling it should not over heat to the over load point. Check out some of the most expensive amps. I have seen them so hot that you could cook on them.

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Jeffery Writes:

Anyone that just runs the 6070 up without any inputs on or active will notice the noise floor at after -10 on the dial if listening attentively, and then on my unit, I notice that from +3 to +4, there is a click and the noise floor kicks in way more, very noticeably.
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I touched on this above. This occurs in some of the most expensive equipment. Unless the distortion is abnormally high it is not noticed during movie/music play back.

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Is the 6070 perfect? No. I found it to be very poor for stereo only music. When using it as a preamp it became very good with music. For home theater I found it to be equal to and better than the most expensive receivers.

Are Denon, H/K, Yamaha or the others bad receivers? No. There are many many who are very loyal to them.

My experience with the 6070 was superior to the others so I have to recommend it. Those who have had a bad experience with Kenwood will naturally not choose it.

I find no need to be defensive either way. This forum should be used to let others know the pros and cons that have been discovered from actual experiences and not just to defend a brand just because one owns it.

This really is an addiction. All of you junkies enjoy the highs.
 

Bill Will

Screenwriter
Joined
Dec 26, 2001
Messages
1,282
How about the original question? Is the 6070 worth it at Best Buy's Price? ANSWER: YES! & if you don't like it you can always return it!
 

ScottRCapt

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Messages
80
Once again, the point was missed...

Lucas,

The point was... that you said I was the only person experiencing problems with the Kenwood.

I produced proof that you statement was inaccurate.

You insist on vilifying the messenger when I simply started out by saying that I personally did not have a good experience with the Kenwood.

Then all heck broke loose with all kinds of claims that there was a great deal of difference between the VR-6060 and the VR-6070, when in fact there isn’t. Then it was said I expected my receiver to sound like multi-thousand dollar separates, I did not. I read all kinds of other discounting of my opinion, like my unit was defective, it is not, it just is less capable than I expect. Then it was proposed that I only paid less than $300 for the unit, so what was I complaining about? Unfortunately, again this was not true.

Then there is the nearly universal claim that there is a major difference between the VR-6060 and the VR-6070 because of the THX certification. When in fact the THX badge only provides for limiting your bass management to an 80Hz crossover. Kenwood-USA has also said that the only difference between these units is the addition of 6.1 Pre-amp output capability of the 6070 (a THX requirement) and the THX bass management and other corrections that are not controllable by the user.

I can end the discussion here, and agree to disagree, which I believe I tried to do a few days ago... But every time I do, I come back here and find that my posts have been misquoted, or my experience has been discounted as being a single view when it is now obvious it is not.

I have said that I am happy that Kenwood 6070 owners love your new receivers, more power to you! I just did not want anyone else to end up doing what I did. I started out like Lucas; very happy and confident in my research and buying decision and slowly over the last 6 months I have ended up where I am now. Wishing that if I had a forum with a thread like this to read before I bought the VR-6060, I would have made another buying decision.

It really is all a mute point now anyway, because there are no VR-6060's or VR-6070's available to the consumer through authorized dealers any longer.

The next discussion will be about the silver faced 7060/7070/7080 Kenwoods hitting the market now.

If I wanted to dedicate the money, I would have no qualms about trying out the Sovereign line of Kenwood Receivers and/or Amps. I would like to hear those units demonstrated. I understand they are quite impressive.

So let the cease fire stand... Truce... I am on my side of the DMZ. Lets avoid peace talks in France, I would hate for the frogs to tell us how to make our points clear.
:D
 

ScottRCapt

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Messages
80
Re: Bill Will's Question:

How about the original question? Is the 6070 worth it at Best Buy's Price? ANSWER: YES! & if you don't like it you can always return it!
Yes, it is certainly worth the sub $300.00 prices I have heard people say they bought them for. Are the units still available at those prices at Best Buy? No, I don’t think so.

But, if those same people that purchased the unit at a sub $300 price discover the same causes for concern that I did after owning the unit, and then decide they need to go in another direction... Was it worth it?

I would say... Maybe, if it were just a $295 learning experience. In my case, it was a much more expensive lesson, but I suppose it was worth it. Now I know intimately what to look for in HT equipment.

Inexpensive is not one of the most important factors when buying HT equipment. It may be a guiding force in ones lifestyle, but that does not make the merits of a product more palatable simply because the unit is sold “cheap”.

The jury is still out on THX branding. It could be a good thing, but it is not necessary and it limits the users ability to set up his/her own HT equipment. Also, to have a true THX HT, every piece of equipment will have to have the THX branding on it, from Speakers to Wire to DVD player to Receiver to Subwoofer etc. Inexpensive is definitely not figured into that equation.

I will always look past fancy RF remotes and other bells and whistles at what the unit actually can do well. With 10mhz of video bandwidth, the Kenwood’s have a fatal flaw because you won’t be happy processing your video signals through the receiver. I believe this is where my unit is stressing out in the video processing hardware. I do not have a TV that can accept more than one S video input, so the receiver needs to be my video switching processor. In addition, the .7% THD in the surrounds is a figure I have been kicking myself for not paying closer attention to prior to purchase. I believe it does make a difference.
 

Bill Will

Screenwriter
Joined
Dec 26, 2001
Messages
1,282
They were probably still available when this thread first started. :D I have always been from the school of when you get something new no matter what it is & it can be returned to put it through complete tests including every little feature on it to make sure everything is working right. Then If your not happy with something or are not sure, return it so you don't have sceond thoughts. I'm glad that you gave your opinion & findings on the Kenwood because that is exactly what this forum should be about people letting other people know about what they personally think of a product from using it which can help people make up their mind before buying something or what to keep an eye out for that they might not like.
 

ScottRCapt

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Messages
80
Thanks Bill...

Thats all I tried to do...

But it seems as though I stirred up a major hornets nest!

:rolleyes
 

Bill Will

Screenwriter
Joined
Dec 26, 2001
Messages
1,282
But the important thing is you din't get stung :D & from the counter it looks like a lot of people looked at this thread & maybe some learned something from "ALL" the different posts & that's what counts the Information :)
 

ScottRCapt

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Messages
80
Bill...Will... Both of you....

Where were you when the proverbial poop was in the fan?
I was an island of dissent amongst a pack of rabid Kenwoodaholics!
I could have used some backup man!

I need a wingman!:laugh:
 

Lee Carbray

Second Unit
Joined
Oct 23, 2002
Messages
308
Man, you guys did not get out much this weekend.

Scott, I agree to disagree..this thread is to long anyway.

I also did not mean the "abuse" comment as a shot, loud is good, I like it loud. Is it fair to say you like to push it to the limit?

I am not a Kenwoodaholic. I have one and when I upgrade I doubt it will be another Kenwood. Mainly because of the issues you brought up(besides the shut down).

What prompted me to post at all was that you warned about the units shutting down and running hot without detailing the situation enough. If you are going to make a claim that the unit shuts down, you need to provide some details for readers to assess the validity of your statement. Namely, either the volume display or value below reference.

For example if I tell you not to buy a Civic because the clutch fails all the time, I have been through three new clutches already and the car is 6 months old, you may think the car has a problem. Now if I drive 300 Miles a week, mostly on the highway and never over rev the engine, the above is a bad review for the car. But if I happen to use the car for my courier job and do 6000 miles a week on city driving, constantly take it to red line and never have it serviced, the above review holds no value.

All I wanted to do was clarify your situation.
 

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