Just why is widescreen not accepted in the U.S.? (1 Viewer)

[LarryH]

I guess this is a cart and horse question: Do Europeans accept widescreen because they have reasonably-priced widescreen TV's or do they have reasonably-priced widescreen TV's . . .

Personally, I put a huge blame on American TV manufacturers who haven't done a thing to bring reasonably-priced widescreen TV's to the market in spite of the mandate for digital (ultimately 16x9) broadcasts.

Personally, I wouldn't be such a fan of widescreen DVD's if I hadn't been able to get a 16x9 TV (standard definition) back when DVD's hit the market. Of course, I had to special-order that.

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

This issue will never die, even when the U.S. fully adopts 16x9. Why? Because after that we'll get 2.35:1 films panned and scanned and modified for 1.78:1 instead of 1.33:1.

 

[Romier S]

Personally, I wouldn't be such a fan of widescreen DVD's if I hadn't been able to get a 16x9 TV (standard definition) back when DVD's hit the market.

If thats what made you a fan of widescreen Larry, more power to you.

For me personally, the technology comes second when it comes to film. I would watch a widescreen DVD on a 13inch set if I had to. Its all about the original shot composition and what the director intended.

On the other hand, lets not be hypocritical. If a film was shot in full frame and released as such, should it be widescreen? Of course not. I have seen allot of people on this forum and others who have no problem whatsoever with that kind of alteration being done as long as it looks proper on thier shiny new widescreen television set. Its a bit of a double-standard.

The OAR stance also gets muddled when the directors and filmakers go back to thier work and change such things. That is out of our hands to control but it is for cause of much discussion. (As evidenced by some Evil Dead and Army of Darkness discussions that have gone on here.)

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

It also doesn't help that NOBODY is helping us! The only place i've ever seen OAR defended and taught is on the internet.
When are some of these filmmakers going to grow some balls and start informing instead of catering? They made the films and they don't seem to care how they're presented at home, except for a few like Martin Scorsese and Michael Bay who at least try and make people understand. Look at this latest fiasco with George Lucas releasing a P&S version of SW EP1. Thanks alot George, that's all we needed.
I also blame the studios, if they would just start putting OAR examples on their dvd's, it might go a long way.

 

[Dennis Nicholls]

ps. the VHS Ben-Hur widens out for the race scene.

Many P&S do this. Another example is at the end of The Agony and the Ecstacy when they first pan upwards to show the completed Sistine Chapel ceiling. They go to letterbox even on the VHS tape. And they put GOLD bars on top and bottom!
Hey, if it's good enough for Michaelangelo's work, it's good enough for me.

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

Zooming out only on certain scene's in films like Ben-Hur is the ultimate incarnation of the word PATHETIC! It's like suggesting in some way that the rest of the film isn't is as important or is as glorious in it's OAR!? Their's A LOT more to see in Ben-Hur than just the chariot race.
I tell you, that little menuever never ceases to piss me off!
The only thing to hope for in those situations, is that some of the more observant six packers out their will actually open their eye's and notice that you can actually see more in the zoomed out sequences and say to themselves "Hmmm, look honey, you can see more on the sides! I wonder what the rest of the film looks like like that."

 

[Tony-B]

This issue will never die, even when the U.S. fully adopts 16x9. Why? Because after that we'll get 2.35:1 films panned and scanned and modified for 1.78:1 instead of 1.33:1.

Absolutely correct!! However, the J6Ps may not complain about 2.35:1 as much as they do now, because they will be more like 1.85:1 black bars. I do think that eventually OAR will win out. There just needs to be more education of the general public. I hated black bars until about a year or so ago, but I diddn't complain about them as much as J6P. When I got into DVD, and saw the difference, I was converted right away. Now, I can't stand watching pan & scan. I think that the general public doesn't really care about the full picture, and all they want is the screen filled. However, why don't they complain about commercials in widescreen? It seems to me that they don't notice them if they are there for a 30 or 60 second commercial, but they notice them right away when watching a movie or TV show. Ok, that is enough ranting for now.

 

[Robert_eb]

I started to realize the benefits of oar about three years before the introduction of DVD. I vividly remember actively searching for VHS tapes that were in their proper OAR. I've tried to explain the concept of this to my friends that complain about the black bars but they just refuse to comprehend that the screen at the movie theater is not the same dimension as your TV. It's my opinion that they just don't want to put in the effort to understand which to me is the definition of being ignorant.

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

They may not complain as much, but we'll still be no better off than we are now though. The goal is to get them to embrace films at their FULL OAR's, not partially.

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

On the issue of the shape of a theater screen VS the shape of a standard 4x3 t.v. screen, if one can't tell the difference between a rectangle and a square then they have now transcended being merely ignorant, and have now entered into the realm of the truly stupid.
No offense.

 

[Nick Senger]

What I don't understand is how more "widescreen" commercials are appearing each day when the general public is supposed to dislike the black bars so much. Watch an hour of TV and you'll see at least three or four "widescreen" ads. If the black bars are so bad, then why use them in an attempt to attract someone's business? Advertisers want to turn viewers on to their products, not turn them away. If they are using the widescreen format then they must have good numbers to support its acceptance by the public. Why don't DVD makers see this? (Of course, the widescreen ads could be meant to appeal to the high-tech crowd, but the products seem to be more diverse than that.)

And why film so many music videos in widescreen if no one likes it?

 

[Patrick Larkin]

It seems to me that they don't notice them if they are there for a 30 or 60 second commercial, but they notice them right away when watching a movie or TV show. Ok, that is enough ranting for now.

I think people who are anti-black bars are complaining about 2.35 :1 films or other super wide presentations. They don't notice or mind 1.85:1. Otherwise, people would have compained about The West Wing or The Sopranos. I really think it is just a case of the narrow frame on a 27" or smaller TV.

Of course, I'll gladly squint to see all the picture. That doesn't deny the fact that I'd enjoy DVDs much more if I had a larger 16x9 TV. There seems to be a dearth of direct view widescreen sets. RCA discontinued their 38" set and even at clearance prices, it's $1999.

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

Yes Patrick, but i've seen music videos that are 2.35:1, i've even seen commercials that are 2.35:1. With shows like The Soprano's, and ER it may be a case of overscan too. On my parents t.v. the overscan is so bad that you can't see any black area at all on The Soprano's or ER.
If others have the same problem, they may not even be aware that the show is in widescreen. I think that the reason they don't complain is because they figure it's only a stupid commercial, or it's only a music video, so who cares, afterall it'll be over in a few seconds or a few minuets.
I think that the makers of some t.v. commercials see widescreen as the next "hip thing", like it's some gimmick that is popular on dvd, and don't know it's true origins or it's true meaning. I really have no idea.
As for music videos, directors of music videos have the right to use the wider frame for their video as filmmakers do for their films. They're both artistic mediums after all.

 

[Tony-B]

Nick and Patrick, you are exactly right!!!!!!!! I don't see people complaining to companies about widescreen commercials. I don't see people complaining to record companies about widescreen music videos. In approximately 5 minutes of constantly flipping through all of the 75 channels I get, I have seen 14 things in widescreen, and at least 2 in 2.35:1. I have seen way more than this though. If my PBS stations were doing widescreen, as they usually do, then it would be different.

 

[jacob w k]

I had only seen one movie in widescreen before I started watching dvds and I had gotten it by accident. Now I only watch stuff in widescreen. I think that people are just used to watching movies in full screen and do not know that they are missing large parts of the movie. Also, I can't imagine watching a 2:35 widescreen movie on a 19 inch tv. I think that people forget this sometimes when they bash people who watch fullscreen movies.

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

Jacob,
those who are fully committed to and love OAR will watch it on any screen size. Their is never an excuse for watching full frame when you know better IMO.

 

[Tim Glover]

Let's be kind to Grinnel...it was just his 2nd post. We obviously don't agree with his view but this is a great forum to discuss such things.

Some movies should never be watched in any other way than OAR and LOTR is one of those. Star Wars, Ben-Hur, Lawrence of Arabia, countless others.

Even comedies look better. To me, the widescreen image is far more pleasing to the eyes as well.

 

[YANG]

"Here is something I have always wondered. I have heard stories, but I want to know exactly why widescreen/letterbox isn't accepted by the majority of people in the U.S., and why they are so stubborn that they can understand widescreen but still not switch over."

MODIFIED ASPECT RATIO had hit other place as well,including region3.

I reject any movies in fullscreen presentation.

 

[Mikko Rasinkangas]

I think it's a misconception that Europeans are pro-widescreen and understand OAR.
Here in Finland most of the films on tv and and basically all on vhs are in pan&scan. I guess the use of widescreen on tv is growing and 16:9 tv set sales are increasing but people still don't really know what it actually means. Europeans are also in need of "education" in this matter.
Every now and then I see letters in Finnish newspapers's "reader speaks" columns where people complain about the black bars and say that tv stations are forcing us to buy 16:9 tv sets. They all think that the black bars are covering the image (in some cases true but we won't get into that).
I always write reply-letters about OAR and widescreen, but they are rarely published. Only one of my letters has been published but still in heavily edited form and without the image comparisons.
Newspapers tend to publish complaints but never the letters that try to explain what the truth is.
One of the funnies letters I've read was about "Once Upon A Time In The West". It was shown on tv in it's glorious 2.35:1 format. A few days later a complaint pops up in the local paper. It says something like "Why on earth has the director's vision been butchered by covering the top and the bottom of the image in black?" He was pro-OAR, sort of. Thank god, a reply about OAR got published sometime later.
Well, I guess that's it.

 

[Kimmo Jaskari]

I'm with Mikko on this. I don't know where this perception of Europe as the home of 16:9 comes from but it is very far from the truth.

The government-owned TV channels (1 and 2) in Sweden are the only ones that do OAR regularly. The ad-funded stations (3-5 plus some others) do ad-interrupted pan&scan virtually exclusively. There are also just as annoying stuff going on; for instance, I have seen one channel pop up subtitle-like text at the top of the window advertising one of their contests and exhorting you to switch to the Text TV mode to read about it, very annoying in the middle of a movie.

Rental VHS are all almost exclusively pan&scan (not that I touch VHS these days but still.)

In Sweden, they pan&scanned Disney's Atlantis from 2.35:1, for instance.

Education is definitely still needed here too. The situation may be better though due to the fact that yes, 16:9 sets are selling quite well here and there are fairly affordable models available.