John Carpenter: P&S Fans Are "Idiots" (1 Viewer)

[Lyle_JP]

Because Princess Diaries sold so few widescreen copies (compared to FS), we got stuck with a FS-only release of Snow Dogs.

Yes, but a big reason why this happened is because the widescreen version (like Cats and Dogs) was damn near impossible to find anywhere!
I don't want to sound like I'm shouting conspiracy theories, but the way these two DVDs were released really felt like studio executives were purposely manipulating numbers so that they wouldn't have to create widescreen versions of any more family films (which would save them money in the long run).
-Lyle J.P.

 

[Kevin M]

Ease back on the political crap, guys.

Else the thread be lost!

 

[John_Berger]

Thanks for bringing the thread lock that much closer with the totally unnecessary pot-shots, guys. :rolleyes
Anyway, in an attempt to stay the locking...

I don't believe in calling people whose opinion differs from mine "idiots," but when their actions impact my own life, anger and frustration can lead one to excess.

Why is that excess? When someone demands a pan-and-scan version, they are second-guessing the filmmakers. They are saying to the filmmakers in essense that "You filmed it the wrong way because I don't like it!" For someone like J.C. who is a staunch anamorphic supporter, that's a slap in the face. It's like saying "I want my house to have white siding" only to have some perfect stranger come up and say "No, I don't want YOUR house to have white siding! I want it to have mauve siding!"
I don't think he's being excessive at all. Pan-and-scan supporters are being disrespectful to his visions for his movies. I think he's perfectly in the right to shove that disrespect back onto them. It might not be professional, but I don't think that it's excessive.
We've all heard the analogy that if you kick a dog so many times he's going to bite back. J.C. has been kicked around by studios and the public for demanding pan-and-scan versions of his movies for decades. He's only (understandably) biting back.

 

[Jack Briggs]

I don't get it. Ron issues a Forum-wide announcement (see the top of this section's first page) about this sort of stuff, and here's a thread swiftly devolving because of the same thing.

No more political commentary, please--and enough of this back-and-forth carping. And if you have a beef with Ron's harmless comment, take it up with him privately.

 

[Blake R]

I sympathize with Mr. Carpenter's disdain for P&S but have never cared much for the man or his films. What interview material I've seen/heard with Carpenter reflects an embittered ideologue with a lot of political axes to grind. He could learn a lot from Christian Nyby.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I wonder how many people know who Christian Nyby is besides the late Howard Hawks? Also, any perceived political axes that Carpenter has to grind aren't germane to this discussion.
Crawdaddy

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Let me step in here...

Some of you, for whatever reason, enjoy
looking too far deeply into someone's comments
trying to find insult where such is not.

I never reffered to anyone as an idiot.

I merely made a harmless joke that since
Carpenter chose not to post those comments
on this forum, as others have in the past,
it makes me very happy.

So let's stop kicking up dirt in this thread
and get back to being civil.

Thank You

 

[steve jaros]

John_Berger:
My agreement with you about the preferability of wide-screen aside, the problem with your analogy is that the filmmaker/studio is trying to *sell* a video version of the movie to the consumer. So of course consumer preferences matter and are relevant.
You might prefer your house with white siding, but if you are trying to sell your house to a buyer who would prefer it with mauve siding, you would be wise to consider their preferences and perhaps negotiate it. You might choose to tell them "buy mine with white siding or buy another house", but it certainly would be fair for the potential buyer to express his preference...
What we need to do is make sure more people prefer widescreen, and it's a good thing when people like Carpenter are on the 'right siding' of the issue...

 

[John_Berger]

So of course consumer preferences matter and are relevant.

We're going to have to agree to disagree.
For the most part, the average consumer will buy the movie regardless of the format. If not, then Blockbuster would never have reversed its decision to stock pan-and-scan instead of widescreen DVDs, and we know very well that BlockBuster does NOT pander to the pro-OAR crowd. They pander to the J6P. If they were so afraid of revenue loss, they never would have gone back to widescreen-only.
(Yes, I'm restricting my example to DVD because widescreen on VHS is basically a lost issue.)
Look at how many new DVDs have sold like crazy even though they're widescreen-only, and there are plenty of examples, the "Star Trek" movies not being the least. Could they sell more if they were offered in pan-and-scan (note: NOT "full-frame"), perhaps. But he fact is that if a movie is in demand people will buy it regardless of the format that it's in. I think that we who refuse to buy a movie that is not in OAR and those who refuse to buy a movie if it *is* OAR make up a very, very small minority. I believe that the majority of people might bitch about a format, but they'll still buy it.

 

[AaronMK]

The last house siding response has a problem. John Carpenter is not able to say "buy mine with white siding or buy another house". It is as if his real estate agent is forcing him to change the siding, even though he would rather the house not be sold, or sold to a different buyer.
Besides, a better analogy would be the buyer wanting the kitchen and the family room chopped off.

 

[John_Berger]

Besides, a better analogy would be the buyer wanting the kitchen and the family room chopped off.

I'm going to have to remember that one!

 

[Andy Olivera]

My view on this is very simple. If a person doesn't know the difference between WS and P&S, then they need to be educated, not called "idiots". On the other hand, for those who do understand the difference and choose to ignore it, it's as fitting a term as any. Those people don't deserve consideration...

In short, I don't think it's a good thing to call someone with different opinions or tastes from your own an idiot, and that's what this comes down to.

I agree. However, the benefit of WS over P&S is not a matter of opinion, it's a fact...

 

[DeepakJR]

[Dancing in background] Yey!!! Directors howing their supposrt for our cause. Im so happy, i think im gonna cry...

l8rz,
Deepak Jr.

 

[Seth Paxton]

BTW, back to WS/P&S sales.

Keep in mind that sales figures are being skewed by retailers that refuse to carry or limit the amount of WS copies available.

I don't know of any outlet that refuses to sell/carry P&S.

Online retailers are skewed as well to youth, tech saavy, financially well-off enough to have online access, etc. However, with the saturation of PCs and online capability it's getting much better.

I would consider online retail figures about the best estimate of what discriminating buyers would choose if given the choice. It's not perfect data, but it does reflect the attitude of "active" buyers who know there is a difference and are looking to pick the one they want(compared to passive buyers who just want the title and tend to buy on the spot).

Only stocking P&S and then saying "see, it sells better" is totally worthless data.

 

[steve jaros]

Andy Olivera wrote:
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My view on this is very simple. If a person doesn't know the difference between WS and P&S, then they need to be educated, not called "idiots".
************************************************** ******
Agreed. But many WS advocates don't make that distinction.
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On the other hand, for those who do understand the difference and choose to ignore it, it's as fitting a term as any. Those people don't deserve consideration...
************************************************** ******
... Perhaps it is a sign of low intelligence to be aware of the superiority of widescreen, but do they deserve to be insulted by being called idiots? And more important - will it be *helpful* to call them idiots?
IMO, that kind of language just antagonizes people and kills any chance that they might, through additional suasion, be brought around to recognizing the benefits of widescreen.
************************************************** ****
However, the benefit of WS over P&S is not a matter of opinion, it's a fact...
************************************************** ****
... but their preference for P/S despite those benefits is a fact as well. And one that those of who care about changing minds - not just being self-satisfied that we are right - would do well to acknowledge. Again, i don't see the practical value of calling people names and belittling their preferences. It isn't likely to be effective at changing minds, and i'd prefer to change minds. I did it with my dad.

 

[Carl C]

They are second-guessing the filmmakers... Pan-and-scan supporters are being disrespectful to his visions for his movies. I think he's perfectly in the right to shove that disrespect back onto them.

Please don't take this the wrong way (because I'm really just gonna play Devil's Advocate here), but would you have the same supportive reaction if, say, Steven Spielberg called those who boycotted the re-edited release of E.T. "idiots"?

Because what you are saying is that anyone who disagrees or differs with what the filmmakers want is being disrespectful. Or does this only apply to OAR and what "we" want??