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James Bond Ultimate Editions - Problems already brewing?

Discussion in 'DVD' started by John H Ross, Jun 28, 2006.

  1. John H Ross

    John H Ross Well-Known Member

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    Right. There's a discussion going on right now about the forthcoming Bond ultimate editions in R2 and I think it needs to be brought over to the main forum because, bugg*r me, if we don't act quickly Sony/MGM might be just about to screw up again...

    It appears from early previews that Octopussy and The Living Daylights are missing their (Russian etc.) subtitles/locational captions AGAIN! You remember the debacle when they were missed off the first-run R1 DVDs and MGM had to put a replacement program in place? Well, it looks like history is gonna repeat itself.

    PLUS is looks like some of the other movies may retain their original burned in subs (Live And Let Die and, bizarelly, TWINE) while others are staying with those wretched, distracting player-generated ones that take you right out of the movie (Tomorrow Never Dies, Die Another Day). So much for quality and consistency.

    I'm sorry but I'm absolutely FUMING about this. For £200 (or £300 depending where you buy) I was expecting superb picture/sound AND original burned-in captions as per their theatrical presentations. Losing the original mono sound mixes was bad enough but THIS is just sloppy.

    The reason I wanna raise this now is simple. If these R2 discs are indeed screwed up (and I'm sure the facts will emerge over the next few weeks) then action needs to be taken SOONER rather than later to ensure that the errors are brought to MGM's attention and fixed before the R1 versions are made.

    Link to the thread:
    http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...d.php?t=235739

    John
     
  2. Paul Arnette

    Paul Arnette Well-Known Member

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    Amazing! Well, I'm about all out of Sony bile today (see my previous A Fish Called Wanda and Yellowbeard posts today). I don't think I've ever been so angry at/disappointed by a studio so many times within a 24 hour period.

    While I did get rid of all my non-Connery, -Lazenby Bond DVDs, thinking that if I wanted to get them again, I could always upgrade, something in the back of my mind told me to hold onto the others. Mainly because I was sure Sony wouldn't make them available for individual sale initially. I had no idea we would be, potentially, reliving the subtitle fiasco.

    I think it would be wise if Cameron Yee or someone else here with a contact at Sony get them on the horn stat about this. If there is still a problem with the subtitles for the R1 release, they're fast running out of time to fix it for the all-important 4Q release.
     
  3. paul_austin

    paul_austin Well-Known Member

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    making the same mistakes twice is beyond rediculous, why cant they get their shit together?
     
  4. Brandon Conway

    Brandon Conway captveg

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    I wouldn't worry about this issue, guys. The UK DVDs are their own entity.
     
  5. Christian Preischl

    Christian Preischl Well-Known Member

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    Yup, in the last couple of years there've been more and more MGM DVDs that used crappy player generated subs in R2/4, but the original burnt-in subs in the US (I think this was still the case after the Sony takeover). So I wouldn't worry just yet.

    I also wouldn't be surprised if the R1s retain the original mono track in addition to the new DTS/DD 5.1 tracks, unlike the R2 releases.
     
  6. John H Ross

    John H Ross Well-Known Member

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    I sure hope you're right, but the spectre of the older R1 special edition Bonds still looms over us and, considering the amount of picture restoration work that's been carried out on these movies, if the captions are that easily removable from R2 I have to assume the mastering was done on prints that didn't contain them. Hence they've been removed. Hence player-generated captions may be forced upon us - or no captions at all!

    Of the 4 Brosnan pictures only Goldeneye retained the genuine theatrical captions (which are in gold). Tomorrow Never Dies bizarrely kept just one: the "HMS Devonshire" caption (in blue). All the rest were wrecked. And Octopussy and The Living Daylights were missing altogether until the re-press.

    John
     
  7. Paul Arnette

    Paul Arnette Well-Known Member

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    While I do appreciate the perspective, when it comes to Sony I always worry.
     
  8. Beau

    Beau Well-Known Member

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    When can we expect the R1 announcment of the DVDs anyway? I really hope we get the slick attache case the other regions will be getting.
     
  9. Greg Black

    Greg Black Well-Known Member

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    You would think that with all the computer trickery that Lowry can do, they would easily be able to lift off the burned in subtitles from a different print and digitally lay them on top of the restored print, and it would look perfect.

    I will be very disappointed if the R1 DVDs are screwed up... player generated crap, and no original mono mixes.
     
  10. Paul Arnette

    Paul Arnette Well-Known Member

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    Yes, this is what concerns me even more than the potential for screwed up subtitles, and, honestly, I think it has a higher likihood of occurring too.
     
  11. Jay Pennington

    Jay Pennington Well-Known Member

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    Thing is, it is very doable to make the "player generated" titles look just like the burned-in ones. The player isn't actually making letters like a character generator would, it is accessing a bitmap file with an alpha channel for each title. That bitmap could be anything--pictures, symbols, or words in any font, as created in photoshop or something during authoring.

    The "cheap" look results from creators letting the DVD authoring software generate the bitmaps instead, using ugly default fonts.

    So it's just a lack of thoroughness here. We could have the better-looking lower-generation film elements (sans burn-in) AND have "player generated" titles that look exactly like the burned-in ones. It just takes a DVD author caring enough to do it right.
     
  12. David Williams

    David Williams Well-Known Member

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    I'm confused here... I thought Fox was distributing for MGM now. What does Sony have do with it? [​IMG]
     
  13. Brandon Conway

    Brandon Conway captveg

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    Fox wouldn't scrap several months work and delay such a huge undertaking. They will likely just negotiate a piece of the profits and let Sony release the set in order to keep it on schedule.

    Whether it be the burned in subtitles or the original audio tracks, suffice it to say that the complaints/concerns are unwarrented.

    In all honesty, there are too many millions of dollars invested in the release of these DVDs to think they have been that careless.
     
  14. RichardCrowther

    RichardCrowther Well-Known Member

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    Are you talking about the R1 release? The R4 (and presumably the R2) certainly didn't keep the original captions.
     
  15. Paul Arnette

    Paul Arnette Well-Known Member

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    The complaints about a product that hasn't been released yet are probably unwarranted, but the concerns are totally justifiable in my opinion given Sony's track record of late (e.g. Yellowbeard). I'll be more than happy to eat crow if these discs arrive in R1 with subtitles intact and their original mono mixes, where applicable.

    Still, I don't see what's so wrong with Cameron Yee or something with a contact at Sony asking about this issue and being proactive about it, rather than reactive if it turns out the concerns were justifiable afterall.
     
  16. John H Ross

    John H Ross Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I'm referring to the R1 edition. The R1 of Goldeneye has always had the burned-in captions going right back to the snapper edition that came out in 1997/1998.

    John
     
  17. John H Ross

    John H Ross Well-Known Member

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    Well... the complaints, or rather my concerns, definitely ARE warranted if the R2 editions (which some people appear to have seen) are any indication of what's gonna get released in R1.

    John
     
  18. Christopher_P

    Christopher_P Well-Known Member

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    Will these be box set editions only (like the current R1 Bond boxes) or will these be new seperate editions also? I currently have no Bond titles in my collection and I've been itching to pick up the Connery era Bond movies.

    I can't seem to tell from amazon if the current release is anamorphic or not. If the current release is anamorphic and not of poor quality I could go for those when the new ones come out to save a little money since I don't really care about the extras.

    Anyone willing to update me on the Bond DVDs? =D
     
  19. Aaron Silverman

    Aaron Silverman Well-Known Member

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    The current R1 releases are anamorphic and of decent quality. However, the new editions this fall supposedly feature more recently restored picture and sound.
     
  20. Mark B

    Mark B Well-Known Member

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    I was under the impression that FOX is simply the distributor. In my mind that means they have nothing to do with the actual production of the disc content, which would still be in the hands of Sony/MGM. Am I wrong?
     

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