It's Official: HD DVD and Blu-ray Can Limit High Resolution To HDMI Only (1 Viewer)

[Edwin-S]

Lots of misconceptions about these formats were being bandied about (and still are). I seem to have added my own brand of confusion and for that I apologize; however, I'm still not buying into HD-DVD as I still think that it is an inferior format.




Yes, actually it does. It makes a big difference to the bottom line. Cheap production costs and high prices are better for the bottom line than high production costs and high prices.

 

[Kelly Grannell]

you're taking my statement out of context.

my context is in the final product quality and longevity as per the discussion's context, not about the bottom line.

 

[Mark Zimmer]

I'm pretty surprised that, if the HD-over-component tale is true (and since it comes from a Microsoft executive, who knows--lots of people are accusing him of FUD there), that they didn't announce as much at CES; seems kind of odd to dribble it out in a posting on AVS.

Fascinating thread, though. And I learned FUD was Fear Uncertainy and Doubt, rather than F***ed-Up Disinformation. :b

 

[Ken_F]

Here is a more update-to-date article on the whole issue:

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6300812.html

 

[JackKay]

It's going to be interesting to see how each studio uses the ICT flag. I wonder if they will use a window system. A movie like KING KONG may initially come out flagged, then after time when it's demand has wained, it would be released unflagged.

Time will soon tell.

 

[PattyFraser]

And I also wonder if, in an attempt to get folks into HD (whichever format) will release previously released big titles (Matrix, SW, LOTR) without the flag. It ought to be obvious that it'll take a little more incentive to get us to double or tripple dip for the biggies we've all already got.

 

[JackKay]

Patty, I'm sure you are right on the older titles. My thinking was that a hot movie like the current DVD Wedding Crashers would be a hot pirated movie now, but in 3 or 4 months the demand will be gone and attention replaced by some other New release. If the studios feel their monetary loss from piracy is diminishing over time they will re-release it un-flagged.

 

[ChristopherDAC]

What has "piracy" got to do with it? I just can't see what the logical connexion is between illegal copying and high-definition via component output. The "bootleg" videos out there are mostly computer rips, and I don't even know of anything in the consumer market which will record a high-definition component signal.

 

[Kelly Grannell]

With both HD DVD and BD ability in streaming full HD via component AND studios disabling that ability on BOTH formats, what will be the advantage of buying BD ove HD DVD(other than more titles)?

I'm not talking about people using FP, but people with RPTV 60" and lower watching at a distance approx. 2x screen diagonal.

 

[PeterTHX]

You're still talking a SMALL part of the market. Most people have some kind of DVI or HDMI input on their HDTVs. The older TVs that do not are starting to die out. Those even aware of the ICT flag are smaller still. Not to mention what titles do it is speculative at this point.

 

[Kelly Grannell]

You got my post absolutely wrong.

My questions is that whether people with RPTV 60" and lower watching from 2x screen diagonal will be able to tell the difference of PQ between HD DVD and BD.

 

[Thomas Newton]

Maybe you're not aware of it, but both NTSC and component-video-type HDTV sets can provide good service for many years before needing replacement.

 

[PeterTHX]

Hate to break it to ya guys but TVs aren't built like they used to be. 5 years these days is "elderly" for a TV.

Most of the people here grinding their teeth over component only HD will more than likely need a new set by the time they were ready to buy into Blu-ray anyway. The ones that actually care about the better picture quality. I'm seeing more and more HD sets from 2001,2002 (ones with DVI) dead and dying.

 

[Jason Harbaugh]

I can't believe how many people are actually trying to defend downconversion to 540p as if it is a good thing because it doesn't affect them directly...for the moment. I thought this was the Home Theater Forum where we strive to get the best possible audio and video presentations for our beloved films. Downconversion to 540p is an insult and a slap to the face to anyone with an HDCP incapable tv. Especially since some of these tv's were just purchased in the last couple years and like mine, still have a couple years of warranty. Hardly a tv that is obsolete and should be shunned to the curb. :rolleyes

With some of the talk here, it appears that a few of you are closing your eyes and just settling right down into their pockets. Just wait until they come back and say "oh btw, we are only supporting HDMI 1.3 or HDMI 2.0 now. Those with HDMI 1.2 and lower, sorry but we can't trust you anymore. Some kid in Norway, brainy little sucker, cracked it. So now you only get a quarter of the potential that your tv has, but don't worry, we already know you will just go with like last time. Thanks a million...and we mean that literally!"

They are just using downrezing as false security for piracy. It will have absolutely, zero effect, and yes I mean zero on global piracy problems. It is just yet another kick in the nuts to the movie enjoying consumer.

And I'm not saying to drop all future connections. I'm glad they came up with a new connection that gives them more security while inturn gives us more bandwidth, fewer cable connections and a better picture. Just don't screw over your quasi-legacy users in the process.

Anyway, soapbox ranting aside, I just hope/wish that a forum such as this can actually see how bad a turn this actually is and using their loud voice, help put a stop to it. Because if they get away with it this time, I'll bet your 1080p fully complient tv's that they will do it again.

 

[Ken_F]

Jason,

Keep in mind...

From what studios have said, we don't have a choice. Either we get a standard that provides some sort of studio option for analog downconversion, or we don't get studio support. Given the choice between a wide Blu-ray title selection with an optional downconversion flag, and a very limited Blu-ray selection with no downconversion option, I think the vast majority prefer the former. The 960x540p component option is a lot better than the 720x480p that many studios had demanded for a very long time -- there's also the fact that any title using the downconversion must specify as much on the packaging, which was another compromise on the part of the studios.

From what I've heard, it doesn't sound like most studios intend to use the flag for downconversion at this point (of course, titles that do will indicate so on the packaging). Rather, they seem to want it for the time in future when component recording becomes viable. The cost of such silicon is falling fast -- within three or four years, it may well be possible to build a box for $1000 that can record HD component output.

We shall see.

We'll have technology for affordable HD component analog recording long before we'll have affordable non-HDCP digital recording.

The encryption technology used by Blu-ray and HD-DVD is orders of magnitude more robust than the DeCSS used by DVD. It is significantly more robust than the encryption used by the X-box, which has yet to be cracked in the past two years. AACS also provides the means to isolate and revoke compromised keys -- so even if a vendor's key is somehow compromised through incompetance (as in the case of DeCSS) or a security breach, it wouldn't allow you to copy future titles. At best, you'd probably only be able to copy past titles, and if you have your Blu-ray player connected to the net to receive updated firmware, playback of those copies could be disabled. Hell, even inserting a new movie release into your player could potentially update its encrypted firmware, revoke compromised keys, and disable playback of past unauthorized copies.

 

[Cees Alons]

That doesn't make it any better. What most of us are saying here is: they should give us a better choice.
In their own interest too.


Cees

 

[george kaplan]

BS. The studios are bluffing. Do you think that if the only HD out there didn't do that, that at least one studio wouldn't cave. And once one studio caved, no other studio would be able to hold out. They've bluffed, and their bluff isn't being called, so they're going to win the pot and screw all of us over, but it's still a bluff.

 

[Kelly Grannell]

So many 'experts' here and no one can address my question?

 

[Ken_F]

I wish that were so...

However, the reality is HD-DVD / Blu-ray will not catch on anytime soon without extensive studio support from the get-go. Even with extensive studio report, there's no guarantee that HD-DVD / Blu-ray will catch on. Both formats may fail as a film distribution medium, regardless of their studio support. If you doubt this, just look at the various HTF polls on the subject, where even the early adopters don't seem to be sold on either format.

No studio expects to see significant revenue from HD-DVD / Blu-ray disk sales for years. A studio who sits out is not going to lose much at all. In fact, it's been suggested in the industry that some studios could actually lose money during the early years on their HD-DVD / Blu-ray sales. At this point, studios do not see much pressure at all to support either format, which is why you have some studios withholding support for Blu-ray, and others withholding support for HD-DVD, despite the fact that both formats use the same encryption scheme and drm. Still other studios may have pledged only to release the bare minimum of titles necessary under format licensing terms to lock in favorable disk pricing for the future.

 

[FrancisP]

The question is whether you are going to put a big KICK ME
sign on so the studios can walk over you. If they get a whiff that draconian copy measures can fly then that will encourage them to go farther. Eventually the studios will have to deal. Or they can settle for diminishing returns from putting out a Super Duper Wow Edition of a film.

It may take a few years but so what. I see the real hardships that people endure and not getting HD isn't much of a hardship.