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It's Official: HD DVD and Blu-ray Can Limit High Resolution To HDMI Only

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Pete Lee, Jul 9, 2005.

  1. Pete Lee

    Pete Lee Well-Known Member

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    Don't know if anyone has already brought this up but here's the bad news for those of us with component inputs:

    Digital Spy's Alan Jay analyses the medium-term development of HDTV in the UK.

    At a recent Toshiba road show in the US they demonstrated their upcoming HD-DVD specification and a few more details became available as to what we can expect from the format when it launches in the US late (November) this year – it will launch with 89 titles available in HD. The audience reaction was very positive to the comparable images shown in both standard DVD and HD-DVD.

    The most interesting thing for people buying TVs at the moment is that Toshiba have stated that their HD-DVD Player will ONLY output high Def on the player's HDMI output (plus other digital connections) the analogue output will be downrezed to 480 lines (in the US - expect the equivalent, no doubt, in Europe). The Toshiba player will also have a USB interface to allow connection to computers for enhanced content and interactive options direct off the disk. In addition mastering of the underlying DVD content will be based on 1080p - but there was no discussion on the resolution of the MPEG4 images.

    The HD-DVD disk will come in 3 sizes when first launched. There will be 15Gb / 30Gb / 45Gb disks (single / dual / triple layer) and there will also be a fourth variety which will have a SD-DVD version on the reverse side of the disk, allowing retailers to have a single version of new films on the shelves and allow consumers to build a library before they have the equipment.

    These disk sizes translate into 4, 8, 12 hrs using MPEG-4/AVC compression. The switch to MPEG4 of course means that the fight that is about to break out between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray is one about how much content can you offer on a disk. The reality is that for a basic movie in MPEG4/AVC the amount of disk space you need is very little more than you can get on a current generation DVD 9. How consumers will view this with a format war about to break out is going to be very interesting to see. The reality is that Blu-Ray will win the computer war because it offers greater volumes form day one and for computer manufacturers it is a great advantage. But for the consumer it will be dependent on other things and only once the machines are delivered will we find the answer as to what seems to be taking the lead.

    As you can see Toshiba will be trying to ensure that studios are confident in the security that they are offering with HD output only being available on the secure digital outputs (HDMI and IEEE1394). So once again if you are thinking about buying a HD capable screen make sure it has HDMI.

    http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds22406.html
     
  2. Harold Wazzu

    Harold Wazzu Well-Known Member

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    what does that mean for HTPCs? Are there going to be new cards with HDMI connections or are they just SOL?
     
  3. Glenn Overholt

    Glenn Overholt Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I am wondering what kind of an output you expected HD-DVD to have? 75 ohm coax?

    There are HDMI to DVI-D converter cables out there already. Although I would have preferred DVI-D, this isn't a big deal to me.

    I'm not an HD fan anyway, but this is a smart move on their part. They no longer have to make any SD-DVD's at all. Of course, now we won't get any picture to look at on the other side of the disk, but I don't spend very much time looking at disk artwork anyway.

    So much for niche! After their players are out, SD-DVD only is bye-bye. When you upgrade later, you just flip the disk over!

    I think I want to say - Bravo! - but I'm waiting for the war to end first.

    Glenn
     
  4. Thomas Newton

    Thomas Newton Well-Known Member

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    75 ohm coax (RF frequencies) would probably be less than ideal for technical reasons.

    He's talking about something else: artificial crippling of component video (which can carry 1080i) and non-DRMed digital connections.
     
  5. Marko Berg

    Marko Berg Well-Known Member

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    I'm not too thrilled to hear there may be two-sided discs with HD content on one side and SD content on the other. Hasn't the DVD/CD hybrid that is called DualDisc proven to be somewhat of a failure? Electronics manufacturers have been issuing warnings and advising against using such discs in their equipment.

    Possible technical problems aside, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss standard DVD yet. Dual-format releases would have to be priced very attractively for consumers to become interested in them. Not many are going to upgrade their TVs just to get an HDMI connection if they are already HD capable.



    Like Glenn, the person who wrote the article clearly sees dual-format releases as a possibility for home theater enthusiasts to build up their collection in anticipation of upgrading the hardware later. Perhaps this applies to most of us here at the HTF.

    However, I cringe at the notion of trying to sell more expensive dual-format releases with the promise of better video in the future. This is not how the format will move beyond niche as most people that can't view HD content on video would not pay extra for promises alone. If you can't witness the quality now, and you know you're not going to upgrade your TV for another five years, why pay more? An average consumer will think, if I wait five years, I'll see whether this format will take off at all and releases will be cheaper in five years anyway.

    If HD DVD is to take off quickly, studios would be wise to think of a dual-format release offering both HD and SD versions of a film as a DVD release with value-added features, rather than an opportunity to charge e.g. $10 more for a product that is mostly going to be sold to consumers with SD playback capability only. I would detest such a practice. However, I would start upgrading my collection with HD if in the near future we would see dual-format releases that cost up to $5 more, preferably less than that.
     
  6. Daniel-M

    Daniel-M Well-Known Member

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    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, no more dual-sided discs please!!!!!!!!!
     
  7. PeterK

    PeterK Well-Known Member

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    Well, I think the dual sided disks are a good idea. I dont know what the technical problems with dual are, but assuming they can be fixed, I would love to be able to buy movies now, that come HD ready and when the players come down to < $300 then I would already have quite a collection.
    Is it just HD-DVD that is doing this or is bluray also planning on introducing a dual sided disk aswell.
    All technical problems aside, I think it's a great idea.

    As for the cost, I don't see the difference. Buy the dual sided disks now, for more money, or buy the HD only disks later for more money. Either way you're gonna be paying more sometime, and If you buy them now slowly, you won't be hit (as much) with the rush of upgrading your collection when the format changes.
     
  8. Mathew B

    Mathew B Well-Known Member

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    This makes the new format pointless. At least with DVD the improvement was noticeable from the start. This is not how to make your format sell well. This effectively means that there is no point unless you have a brand-new HD-TV. And most people, even in Europe, don't have HD-TV. I'm sticking with normal DVD. For now, anyway.
     
  9. Seth--L

    Seth--L Well-Known Member

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    And by the time you go to buy a HD-DVD player and use the flip side of the dual disc, the studio has already reissued the movie on HD-DVD with better picture, sound and all new extras, and so you end up double dipping without ever having used the HD side of the disc.
     
  10. WillG

    WillG Well-Known Member

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    I guess this means my HDTV is obsolete because I don't have HDMI inputs, only component. Ugh, I think now I am officially hoping that HD-DVD/Blu-Ray fails. The paranoia and greed with this rollout is getting sickening to me.
     
  11. JackKay

    JackKay Well-Known Member

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    There are millions of HD TV early adapters out here that don't have HDMI inputs, yet we are the ones the initial market is aimed for! Go to your local electronics store chain and they are still selling them.

    This really puts me as a consumer in a damned if you do, damned if you don't position. 1. If I buy one format will it go away? 2. What's the point if I can't use it anyway?
     
  12. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Administrator
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    With this latest news about HDMI-only
    compatability, I know already that I won't
    be upgrading to the HD-DVD format.

    Question....

    What would you guys think about starting
    a campaign across the Internet for boycotting
    both formats altogether?

    This whole concept behind the rollout of these
    two competing formats has gotten absolutely
    ludicrious. Not only have studios been split
    down the middle in support whereas people will
    have to buy TWO SEPARATE PLAYERS, but now we
    come to find that those of us with older HDTV
    sets are not compatable with one of the formats.

    Generally, I am against starting boycott campaigns
    as they rarely work.

    However...

    If we pushed the other Internet websites to join
    us in promoting a Boycott Campaign would
    you guys be supportive of it?

    If we do this, you guys will have to support
    the cause and NOT purchase into either of the
    two formats. Period.

    This CAN work because the people that
    will be buying into the formats are those who
    frequent forums like this. WE are the early
    adopters who can make or break these formats.

    Before we attempt to do this, I just want to
    get an idea if you guys are interested in helping
    and perhaps some suggestions on best how to do it.
     
  13. Kyle_D

    Kyle_D Well-Known Member

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    Ron,

    You have my axe...
     
  14. Steve Berger

    Steve Berger Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I follow the line of thought that any HD format that doesn't support all the existing displays on component inputs will fail. No matter how much the content owners want it, the early (and half the current) adopters won't buy it.
     
  15. Nathan_R

    Nathan_R Well-Known Member

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    I'm in for a boycott.
     
  16. Glenn Overholt

    Glenn Overholt Well-Known Member

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    Seth - That will be triple-dipping if/when HD goes belly up in favor of Blu-Ray. [​IMG]

    Ron - Sure, I would love to boycott both, but so far, it looks to me like we are stuck.

    If we were to fast-forward to July of 2006, I see just as many DVD's on the shelves as I did in 2005. The only difference would be that anything released in 2006 will have SD on one side, and HD or Blu-Ray on the other. Prices would be the same.

    For the average consumer, when their TV goes and they have to buy a new one, it will have the HDMI socket on it, and by that time the players should be cheaper (another subject). Then they would buy the new player and have HD.

    I feel that if we boycott this, we will not be able to purchase anything at all.

    I think I see your point. We would not be supporting either format - can we press them for disk artwork?

    Glenn
     
  17. MichaelPR

    MichaelPR Well-Known Member

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    I would deffinately be interested in a boycott. I have HDMI connections on my TV. But alot of my friends and family who bought HDTVs do not. I believe that it is totally unfair for these companies to actively work against these people. I am also unhappy about two competing formats. I will not be buying either one unless some changes are made.
     
  18. JackKay

    JackKay Well-Known Member

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    Ron,

    You have my sword...
     
  19. Carlos Garcia

    Carlos Garcia Well-Known Member

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    I personally have an HDTV television, and plan on using it only to play all my existing standard DVDs. As far as HDTV reception, I will use the TV to watch whatever HDTV programs my cable company, and my local OTA stations decide to offer. As far as upgrading to HD-DVDs however, I have no plans on ever upgrading. Enough is enough, and all this incompatability has turned the HD-DVD formats into a worse circus than the Betamax/VHS war did.
     
  20. Rodney

    Rodney Premium
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    I will also join the fray. Count me in as one that has HDTV with no HDMI. We get a degraded signal because of that?
     

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