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Its hard to beat the MC-1 & Logic 7! (1 Viewer)

Shawn Fogg

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Oct 5, 2001
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223
Amir,

"I am really intriged with all the interest in 5.1/7.1 surround for music."

In all depends on the quality of the processing involved and what you are looking for as far as music playback. If you want it to sound identical to 2 channel it won't do that. For it to be better it by definition can't sound the same.

Check out the Lexicon and Meridian forums and see the mix of those that listen to music in surround vs. 2 channel.

"After all not much comes out of the rear 2 channels other than maybe room ambiance which I believe given a high reseloution system and proper speaker positioning you can get with 2 channels. "

Well done 2 channel can give one centrally located listener a pretty good illusion of looking in 'through a window.' Well done surround puts you into the hall and it does it over a wider listening angle then 2 channel.

Our ears pick up all sorts of different queues to determine the acoustic venue we are in. Without that info coming at us from the sides and the rears you can't really trick you ears into believe you are in a different acoustic space. Download the 'Theory and Design' booklet at the link below for more information on this.

http://lexicon.com/mc1/downloads.asp

Shawn
 

Shawn Fogg

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Oct 5, 2001
Messages
223
John,

I don't know that it would work but it is a possibility. After I get the Citations if I get a chance I'll give it a try. My room is different then yours though in that one of my rear corners is open to another room so I won't be able to bounce the sound of the walls in that corner.

My guess though is your would want to position the 7.3s such that you are optimizing their positioning for the sides playback more then the rears. Of course their end positioning will be for whatever works best for you.

Kevin,

" but I set up my 7.1 system with ... Logic 7 in mind from the start."

Cool! If you do end up going with one of the Lexicon's and have questions you know where to find me. On music there are all sorts of ways you can tailor Music Logic's playback to be more toward your tastes and desires. It does take some time to learn how all the controls effect playback. After you get that down you can really tweak it in to your tastes.

Shawn
 

Shawn Fogg

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Oct 5, 2001
Messages
223
Amir,

"the sound stage is 20 feet deep and 20 feet wide with great placement for instruments giving you the feeling of 6th row seating position and looking at the stage. "

I forgot to mention... if you wanted a very huge sort of soundstage like that with just two speakers on a DC-2/MC-1 try running Panorama after you calibrate it. It can be very stunning though you are restricted to a very small sweet spot. That too improves if you have the rest of the speakers playing as well.

Panorama is similiar in theory to Carver's 'Sonic Holography' though considerable more advanced. With 'Sonic Holography' you need to change your speakers positions to be very close to each other up front. This is at odds for when you want regular playback of course. In the Lex. you adjust its processing to your speakers existing positioning. Also, Panorama corrects for multiple orders of the cancelation signal.

Panorama is actually what originally got me interested in Lexicon's. Though after I got my DC-1 it was Music Logic/Logic-7 that I grew to love.

Shawn
 

Amir

Agent
Joined
Jun 19, 2002
Messages
39
Shawn,
I have not heard the Lexicon but I have listened to Meridian with DPLII and with direct A/B I prefed the unmodified 2channel stereo to DPLII. I feel you loose something every time you modify the signal. I am not the only one. There is a guy on the NEWFORM user group, Brad, who was a great proponent of Tcat2.2 and now he is selling his tact and going to all tubes. I do understand the psycho acoustic information concept. The information is there in 2 channel recording however the low resolution details are lost. As I understood from someone who had a better understanding of the phenomena,one of the theings you need is high voltages to preserve these information and that is why the tube gear do well creating a expansive sound stage. I will read the Lexicon info. One thing I have learned is to keep an open mind!
Regards
Amir
 

Mark Davenport

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Aug 2, 2002
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114
It's really a philosophy thing, If you prefer straight two channel, with a bypass nothing added to the signal and just a volume knob the Lexicon is not your best bet. If you prefer to add a DSP to your audio sources and would like a true discrete 7.1 channel signal out of any source you play through it a Lexicon is the best in the industry.
 

Amir

Agent
Joined
Jun 19, 2002
Messages
39
Shawn,
the download link does not work on the lexicon site. Is there another link? thanks
Amir
 

Shawn Fogg

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Joined
Oct 5, 2001
Messages
223
Amir,

"I have not heard the Lexicon but I have listened to Meridian with DPLII and with direct A/B I prefed the unmodified 2channel stereo to DPLII. "

How much time did you spend trying the different settings in DPLII? Besides, on the Meridian you really should have tried using Trifield which is Meridian's attempt at furthering the state of the art in music reproduction.

" and that is why the tube gear do well creating a expansive sound stage."

If they are 'creating' an expansive sound stage they are coloring the signal. If you are getting great depth on every recording you have a coloration... one you happen to like and it can be very enjoyable. There are absolutely recordings which are recorded very flat.

I sold much of my tube gear when I bought my DC-1.

Shawn
 

Amir

Agent
Joined
Jun 19, 2002
Messages
39
Shawn,
thanks the new link works. You are correct, the recording quality is very critical. I do not get the same soundstage with every recording and I do get flat sound stage with some recording - it has to do with what the engineer had in mind when mixing. Does the sound stage change with logic 7?
Amir
 

AllenP

Auditioning
Joined
Feb 5, 2001
Messages
11
I have been looking for a new SSP the Rotel 1066 or a Soundstage used. I don't have a 7.1 setup and I want be able to have one for sometime but I do have a 5.1. I wander if I should get a DC-2 or Mc-1 to get use to the Lex for when I get a room that I can set up a 7.1 system.I am 99%HT with my system. What or the differences between the mc-1 and dc-2. I know the sound is the same but what features or different.
Allen
 

Shawn Fogg

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Oct 5, 2001
Messages
223
Amir,

"Does the sound stage change with logic 7?"

Absolutely, as does the surround presentation. You can then further adjust it if you so desired with the controls of Logic 7.

Shawn
 

Kevin C Brown

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2000
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5,723
Shawn- Thanks!! (In fact, I *knew* about the existence of that Theory and Design booklet, but I never could find it before...)

For me, I'm still also a believer in 2 ch only for music, although I am intrigued to hear the new multi channel mix of Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon. I'd pretty much use the Lex for video based sources, and the P9000ES for analog audio sources.
 

Mark Davenport

Stunt Coordinator
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Aug 2, 2002
Messages
114
I think your selling yourself short only using the Lex for video. I had a Sony V444es which is the same pre/pro section as the Sony 9000es and the Lex is a huge step up for music, it's in a completely different league, much better dac's and circuitry in the Lex than the Sony.

If I were you I'd get the Lex first and try it out for music then if you really don't like what Logic 7 does for music get the Sony later.
 
Joined
Jan 25, 2002
Messages
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I was just wondering what the tone controls are on the MC1. Is it just bass and treble and can they be adjusted when using DD and DTS? I had a receiver that was THX certified and wouldn't allow adjustments of tone without bypassing THX.
 

Mark Davenport

Stunt Coordinator
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Aug 2, 2002
Messages
114
There are bass, treble, tilt, speaker distance, panorama, individual speaker gain for every channel, front steering, soundstage, vocal enhance, surround roll-off, sub woofer and center increase, Bass enhance, loudness, rear delay offset, and 5spkr enhance plus you can cut off low end frequencies for any channel that you choose as SMALL, 40, 80 or 120 khz. Plus a few more I probably missed.

All are selectable options when using a Logic 7 DSP
and apply to any source regardless if it's stereo, multi channel, analog or digital input.
 

Kevin C Brown

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2000
Messages
5,723
Mark- I hear you, and I will definately look into it. I'm just hedging my bets in that I've seen a few reviews that the 2 channel sound from the Lex DC-2/MC-1 isn't that great. :)
 

Mark Davenport

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Joined
Aug 2, 2002
Messages
114
2 channel is fine, it just does not have an analog bypass option. I personally do not like analog bypass in any way shape or form. To me bypass ends up being dull, recessed, light and completely boring and lifeless. I mean if you really want to hear what the artist intended you'd need to get ahold of the master tapes and the equipment the recording is mixed on, your already compromised by the media your playing it on why not try and get it to sound the way you want it to?

Logic 7 is very clean and does not color the recording very much, it just properly steers frequencies to a more appropriate channel to give a discrete multi channel image.
To me music in Logic 7 sounds much better than any time I have heard music through an analog bypass mode.
 

John-Tompkins

Second Unit
Joined
Jan 21, 2003
Messages
326
2 channel is fine, it just does not have an analog bypass option. I personally do not like analog bypass in any way shape or form. To me bypass ends up being dull, recessed, light and completely boring and lifeless.
If the analog bypass is transparent (as it should be)..All the charecteristics you describe would be source dependent..good source equals good sound imo (with all other things being equal)..But I am partial to two channel
 

Mark Davenport

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Aug 2, 2002
Messages
114
Yea I simply do not enjoy two channel sound. I want the music to sound the way I want and not be constrained by potential mixing and mastering flaws.

That said the biggest selling point of the LEX is Logic 7 and if your not going to use it for almost all sources and just movies it would not be worth it. MY Sony ES did fine for movies using the Cinema Sound DSP. I think it would be a waste of money to just use the Lex for movies.
 

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