Its hard to beat the MC-1 & Logic 7! (1 Viewer)

[Mark Davenport]

I think with properly setting up Logic 7 it beats the snot out of almost anything. I upgraded from a Sony V444es which has much the same pre/pro section as the TAP9000es and once I properly had logic 7 going I was simply in awe.

I used Sony ES receivers for almost 10 years and got really good at tweaking them. I used the Cinema Sound setting with pro-logic turned off to give an all channel DSP through all sources that worked really well. I really thought I'd never find anything as good as Cinema sound but Logic 7 barre's it even as good as it was.

I think for former Sony ES owners Lexicon is the only way to go it offers even more option and tweakability than the Sony ES line.

I was pretty happy with the ES but I was able to get the MC-1 at a price I simply could not refuse. I feel I stepped up in a major way.

 

[Mark Davenport]

Hi
The MC-1 does not have DPLII not sure about DTS-ES either haven't even bothered with anything other than Logic 7. Let tell you though that you won't waste your time with anything other than Logic 7 once you get a handle on it.
I honestly don't think you will really need the TAP9000 either. In my experiments with 5.1 analog for SACD and DVD-A I simply was not impressed. I'm much more happy playing the two channel high rez tracks on SACD and DVD-A and letting Logic 7 separate them in discrete channels, and it does this very well.

The mix Logic 7 chooses is better than the discrete 5.1 channels mixes I heard using the 5.1 input's on my V444es. You can put your ear to each speaker and they are totally discrete even on 2 channels sources.

That being said I'd go for the MC-8 if you can swing it.
The MC-1 and DC-2 are not going to get anymore upgrades and the Logic 7 in the MC-8 is more advanced than the MC-1 and it will get a lot more upgrades down the line.

Also with the MC-8 you may eventually be able to trade it in on the MC-12 and get your $3000 back or more on trade in value.

The MC-12 is the holy grail for MCH sources as it will let you digitize the analog 5.1 inputs and overlay Logic 7 on top of it plus the other DSP tweaks in the MC-8.

 

[John-Tompkins]

Kevin,

mc-8 for low three's! no offense to the mc-1 but it wouldnt be a question, if I could get that price and swing it Id jump all over it.

Do you have a turntable or tubed cd player or dac ?..I difer imo then some others as I think analog bypass is essential if your really into any kind of serious two channel..I do agree that the mc-1 is excellant in its music logic 7 mode but I was never thrilled with its two chanel performance, I kinda thought it was a bit sterile. I had the mc-1 tap combo (sold my tap to Kevin M.)..nice one two punch combo..

 

[Ricky T]

Kevin,

If you can get into a DC2/TAP combo under 2000, that'd be great. Otherwise, and MC8 in the low 3K's should keep you happy for a very long time. Later, you can get the matching Lexicon LX-7 amp

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Well, I'm thinking $2250-ish for the DC-2/MC-1 + P9000ES. (I.e., same as the Ref 50.) But that's still a cool grand less than the "low $3k's" for the MC-8...

 

[John Tompkins]

Yea, that would be a great combo and a grand less. Wanted to mention that I owned the dc-2 and mc-1 and that I heard ZERO difference between them, so a dc-2 would be a great choice if you can do with a few less connections.

I also heard the ref 50 (at tweeters) and thought it sounded fabulous! very good price for a very good pre-pro.

 

[Philip Brandes]

John,

The DC-2 and MC-1 were both built on the same underlying architecture, so it's not really relevant that you thought them close. The MC-8 is built on the MC-12 platform, and the differences between it and the older Lexicons are significant in terms of both sonics and features. Kevin can certainly save a grand by going with a DC-2/TAP combo, but it is very misleading to be talking about "zero differences." The differences are major, from the improved version of Logic 7 to analog bypass to 5.1 inputs to more I/O flexibility to future expandability. And of course he'd get all the current standard surround modes (PL II, DTS whatever).

The price Kevin mentioned for an MC-8 is nothing short of astonishing. IMO, cutting himself off from its advantages for only a grand is short-sighted, but everyone has different financial priorities. However, it is simply not accurate to impy that those two options are equivalent. If he spends the extra grand, he will definitely get value for his money.

Cheers,
Philip Brandes

 

[John Tompkins]

Phillip,

I believe if you go back and re-read my last two posts you will see that you misunderstood what I said. I said in the first post that "I would jump all over the mc-8 without a doubt if I could swing it"!..and then on my second post I said, I couldnt detect ZERO differences between the DC-2 and MC-1 (nothing about the MC-8 being close).

 

[Michael Reuben]

Having recently upgraded from an MC-1 to an MC-8, I have to confirm Philip's observation that there are meaningful differences between them. At least for me, there were immediate audible improvements, especially with the Logic7 processing of 2-channel sources. While analog bypass and 5.1 input capability don't happen to be important to me, the greater flexibility at managing inputs has proven to be very useful, especially the inclusion of component video switching. I consider the MC-8 a significant step up from the MC-1, and for an extra $1K, it should be a no-brainer.

(I have found only two things on the MC-1 that aren't duplicated on the MC-8: the number of S-video inputs (5 on the MC-8; 8 on the MC-1), and a remote trigger using a 5-pin DIN plug. I do not consider these a meaningful sacrifice, but mention them in the interst of full disclosure. The lower number of S-video inputs is not a significant issue because of the MC-8's ability to assign any input to any source.)

M.

 

[John Tompkins]

Man, this threads giving me an itch for an mc-8 that I just cant scratch...

Michael,

Are there more "tweaks" in the mc-8 software and Is the bass management the same ?..oh, also there is just one 5.1 input correct?

Maybe if Kevin could get me his deal..hmm

 

[Shawn Fogg]

"Are there more "tweaks" in the mc-8 software and Is the bass management the same ?"

Bass management of the MC-8 is the same as on a MC-12 configured for one subwoofer.

Like the MC-1 you set crossovers independantly for:
L/R
Center
Sub
Sides
Rears

However you know have the choices of every 10hz between 30-120hz and the high pass is now fourth order. There is also an 80 THX setting which is second order like all the high pass crossovers on the MC-1.

"..oh, also there is just one 5.1 input correct?"

No. The MC-8 gives you the option of no 5.1 inputs, (1) 5.1 input or (2) 5.1 inputs. The MC-12 can do none or 1. The important thing to keep in mind is when you configure it for a 5.1 input it uses up some of your regular analog inputs, just like the MC-12. If you configure it for (2) 5.1 inputs you have very few other analog inputs available. If you have mostly digital outputting sources then this isn't a problem.

Shawn

 

[John Tompkins]

Thanks Shawn!..thats cool about the 5.1 inputs and having the crossovers every 10 hz will be nice..

On a side note, I bid and won a pair of citation 7.3's the other day on ebay and noticed that I outbid a sfogg, was that you by chance ?...I cant wait to try the dipoles on the side (Ive always used directs) in my smallish ht room

 

[Shawn Fogg]

John,

" I bid and won a pair of citation 7.3's the other day on ebay and noticed that I outbid a sfogg..."

Son of a .....

Yup, that was me. I got the next pair that went through though.

I was thinking the dual drive part of those could be interesting with a Lexicon for those that can't fit a full 7 speaker setup in.

It would be interesting to try locating them at about 110-120 degrees and having the front half reproduce the side channels and the back half the rears. Might be an improvement over just a pair of regular surrounds.

Or for those that can only do a single central rear (which is a bad idea) having one half do right rear and the other left rear which might help to fill in the rear soundstage and possibly help to avoid rear to front inversions since the material would be different at your ears.

Shawn

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Actually, since I'm an 80% 2 channel music guy, I'd use the Sony to get back to pure 2 channel analog. The Lex would only be used for movies. But yeah, guess I should do some research on the differences between the DC-2/MC-1 and the MC-8 anyway...

 

[Shawn Fogg]

Kevin,

"since I'm an 80% 2 channel music guy, I'd use the Sony to get back to pure 2 channel analog. "

With a little work you can actually have a 2 channel analog pass-thru an MC-1 (or DC-1, DC-2) if you so desired.

http://www.smr-home-theatre.org/Lexicon/mc1/bypass.html

Shawn

 

[TommyL]

man, now I'm looking at mc-8's this is insane...is it that much better than the mc-1? I must regroup

 

[Philip Brandes]

John,

"I believe if you go back and re-read my last two posts you will see that you misunderstood what I said."

Yes, I can see that...a drawback of using the forum's "jump to first unread post" viewing option, I was responding only to your second post out of context.

Sorry,
Philip

 

[John-Tompkins]

I was thinking the dual drive part of those could be interesting with a Lexicon for those that can't fit a full 7 speaker setup in.

You may be onto something there. Supposing for those who had there couch to the back wall or in my situation the couch is two ft. from the back wall, that you could use a speaker like this positioned in the corners (kati-corner) with the front side of the dipole hooked up as your side and the back side of the dipole hooked up as your rears ? the sides would be reflected off the side wall and the back would be relected off the back wall...this would solve ALOT of my problems and may get me back into logic 7 (seems like it would work with any dd-ex, dts-es pre-pro though)

Maybe Shawn or Phillip (was reading some of your archieved dipole posts today) could give me an opinion as to whether this would cause some phase problems etc. ?

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Shawn...

This is actually one of the enticements to getting a Lex: access to the brain-power of all the other people that have them too.

(I just completed a deal for a P9000ES. I'm trying to not get too excited. I have to digest my tax bill, and then I can get a DC-2/MC-1. I have the Outlaw 950 now, but I set up my 7.1 system with ... Logic 7 in mind from the start.)

 

[Amir]

I am really intriged with all the interest in 5.1/7.1 surround for music. I have tried 5.1 surround (mostly concerts on DVDs) and almost always I prefer the high quality 2 channel using my conrad Johnson 14L pre and Rouge Magnum M-120 with Newform research moded 645's. the sound stage is 20 feet deep and 20 feet wide with great placement for instruments giving you the feeling of 6th row seating position and looking at the stage. This sound stage was not possible with my solid state gear (Denon 2800 / Parasound HCD2205) I personally think that good recording would has enough information to present a great 3D image with 2 channels. There are a lot people out there which prefer 2 channel SACD to multi channel SACD of the same software. After all not much comes out of the rear 2 channels other than maybe room ambiance which I believe given a high reseloution system and proper speaker positioning you can get with 2 channels. Just my opinion.

Amir