It's A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World - 7/5 (Another Wal-Mart Exclusive) (1 Viewer)

[ahollis]

This is what I love about HTF in three days there are four pages and 100 posts on a film that has been talked about for years as either you love it or hate it. I love it and will get the Blu-ray. I will also hope for a restored Roadshow Blu-ray release sometime in the future and will be happy to get that one also. Just please let the Overture, Intermission and Exit Music be on the Blu-ray that comes out in 14 days.

 

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein to those who also see the appropriation of United Artists history by the joke that now lays claim to the MGM name. It gladdens my heart whenever I watch a 1950's UA film and see the words "A UNITED ARTIST RELEASE" somewhere in the credits. How long before they start digitizing that out?

 

[MatthewA]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo to those who also see the appropriation of United Artists history by the joke that now lays claim to the MGM name. It gladdens my heart whenever I watch a 1950's UA film and see the words "A UNITED ARTIST RELEASE" somewhere in the credits. How long before they start digitizing that out?

The technology exists. Do NOT give them ideas!

 

[Techman707]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo Can you imagine if Sony (that already adds THEIR logo to a Columbia Picture) decided to remove or change the Columbia logo on a picture like "Cat Ballou"? They need to have more respect for these companies, whether past or present.

 

[Techman707]

Originally Posted by ahollis

Agreed. One of the reasons I assume that the additions were legitimate is that the scenes were squeezed on the far left and right, which would be proper for an Ultra-Panavison print. Also they seemed to fit into the scenes very well when placed. The interaction with Ethel Merman and Buddy Hacket when they first had a meeting about the money along the road was enhanced with the additional material. IMHO

There's no doubt that they're legitimate, but since five hours of footage from IAMMMMW was floating around at one point in time (and would have been UP70 anamorphic), it doesn't mean it was part of the original Roadshow premiere. As for fitting in, it is perfect, but so does millions of feet of film that winds up on the floor or basket in the editing room. Although not so much today with most, if not all, editing being done digitally today once a work print has been scanned.

 

[Mark B]

The original footage, as shot, did not contain the far left far right squeeze. That was an optical process applied to allow the film to be projected on the curved Cinerama screen without distortion. So, I doubt any of the footage not seen in the original roadshow would have had the effect applied. If you watch all of the extra footage as seen on the initial DVD release it is easy to discern which scenes were originally in the film and which were from outtakes/workprint footage as not all of it contains the distorted "edges."

 

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by Techman707


Can you imagine if Sony (that already adds THEIR logo to a Columbia Picture) decided to remove or change the Columbia logo on a picture like "Cat Ballou"? They need to have more respect for these companies, whether past or present.

Warners did this to the Columbia logo on THE MAN CALLED FLINTSTONE. The original had Wilma Flintstone as the "Torch Lady," but it's nowhere to be seen on the DVD. And to add insult to injury, the DVD is full screen when it should have been 1:85 letterboxed.

 

[darkrock17]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo




Warners did this to the Columbia logo on THE MAN CALLED FLINTSTONE. The original had Wilma Flintstone as the "Torch Lady," but it's nowhere to be seen on the DVD. And to add insult to injury, the DVD is full screen when it should have been 1:85 letterboxed.

I didn't know The Man Called Flintstone was made in Widescreen?

 

[Techman707]

Originally Posted by Mark B

The original footage, as shot, did not contain the far left far right squeeze. That was an optical process applied to allow the film to be projected on the curved Cinerama screen without distortion. So, I doubt any of the footage not seen in the original roadshow would have had the effect applied. If you watch all of the extra footage as seen on the initial DVD release it is easy to discern which scenes were originally in the film and which were from outtakes/workprint footage as not all of it contains the distorted "edges."

I don't think he was referring to rectified print. UP70 prints are squeezed, only not 2 to 1 like with Cinemascope or Panavision, they have an expansion (or compression ratio if you're talking about filming) ratio of 1.25.

 

[Techman707]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo




Warners did this to the Columbia logo on THE MAN CALLED FLINTSTONE. The original had Wilma Flintstone as the "Torch Lady," but it's nowhere to be seen on the DVD. And to add insult to injury, the DVD is full screen when it should have been 1:85 letterboxed.

So I guess there is no end to their butchering. I wonder if they did it to "The Mouse That Roared" also, as well as a few other that I can't think of right now.

 

[Sam Posten]

Right, I essentially agree with what Bruce says above. I want it all. Like how Blade Runner was done if you want a parallel. Give us a theatrical cut, a roadshow cut, an everything including the kitchen sink, and then the purist and the fan alike will be happy. Is that so much to ask for on what is one of the funniest and most beloved of 'big' films ever made?

 

[Techman707]

Originally Posted by Sam Posten

Right, I essentially agree with what Bruce says above. I want it all. Like how Blade Runner was done if you want a parallel. Give us a theatrical cut, a roadshow cut, an everything including the kitchen sink, and then the purist and the fan alike will be happy. Is that so much to ask for on what is one of the funniest and most beloved of 'big' films ever made?

I wouldn't say "I want it all", but it's not too much to ask for a decent transfer with the beginning and end identical to its theatrical run. I don't think that's asking too much, especially when you consider that many of the film we're talking about have already made all their money years ago from their theatrical run and the DVD's or Blu-rays sales are just gravy that was never contemplated. If they had, they would have taken better care of these films.


I just hope we're not too disappointed when the Blu-ray of IAMMMMW comes out in July, but I'm afraid it's just a Blu-ray of the MGM-HD version. While most of it was fine, they needed to correct the some of the opening title credit (which opens with a salmon looking color) and "the end" screen which should have been a light yellow.

 

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by darkrock17

I didn't know The Man Called Flintstone was made in Widescreen?

It was a theatrical release in 1966 and played in 1:85 aspect ratio.

 

[GMpasqua]

Quote: Originally Posted by Professor Echo to those who also see the appropriation of United Artists history by the joke that now lays claim to the MGM name. It gladdens my heart whenever I watch a 1950's UA film and see the words "A UNITED ARTIST RELEASE" somewhere in the credits. How long before they start digitizing that out?




I know! It's like Warner Bros thinking they filmed "The Wizard of Oz" "Ben Hur" "Citzen Kane" and "Gone With the Wind"


and yet when you're in their home video buliding those are the photos you see hanging on the walls


United Artists was such a great studio ..they made the best films. I could never understand how one film ruined them at a time when they had two of the largest money making franchises in film history screening accross the country and around the world "Rocky" and "007" plus the Woody Allen films which were very popular at the time.

 

[GMpasqua]

Quote: Originally Posted by ahollis I guess that all the interview with Stanley Kramer where he said he wanted the longer version available were just lies. When the laserdisc and VHS came out he was all over TV and news papers pushing it and talking about it. I don't claim to be an expert on the film, but I still have the USA Today article about this release and what Kramer said at the time.


They're not lies at all. Many Directors have said one thing on an audio commentary or in an interview only to say something completely different a few years later.


Peter Hunt approved the "1776" laserdisc but 10 years later re-cut the film and said the earlier cut wasn't what he wanted


The list goes on. Sometimes directors change their opinons as they get older and as they experience changes in current film editing.


How many directors cuts can exist of one film?


How many times (this is my favorite) did Robert Wise say the color changes made on "The Sound of Music" were the correct hue - every time the film was re-released on DVD with a different hue (ie. every time the film was released on DVD.)


Even George Lucas changed "Star Wars" 20 years after he released it, did he really want those all additions back in 1977 or were some of those after the fact desires?


Directors will re-cut a film until they die...art is never finished as long as the director has the ability to re-cut, re-score and add new material

 

[Ethan Riley]

Originally Posted by GMpasqua
They're not lies at all. Many Directors have said one thing on an audio commentary or in an interview only to say something completely different a few years later.


Peter Hunt approved the "1776" laserdisc but 10 years later re-cut the film and said the earlier cut wasn't what he wanted


The list goes on. Sometimes directors change their opinons as they get older and as they experience changes in current film editing.


How many directors cuts can exist of one film?


How many times (this is my favorite) did Robert Wise say the color changes made on "The Sound of Music" were the correct hue - every time the film was re-released on DVD with a different hue (ie. every time the film was released on DVD.)


Even George Lucas changed "Star Wars" 20 years after he released it, did he really want those all additions back in 1977 or were some of those after the fact desires?


Directors will re-cut a film until they die...art is never finished as long as the director has the ability to re-cut, re-score and add new material

Peter Hunt had used workprint crapola in the LD, but miraculously discovered better footage of at least some of the same for the subsequent dvd. But he chose to delete some of the restored footage for the dvd. Not sure why--maybe the only "additional" footage in that dvd is the stuff that looked the best??? Why that be why he lopped off the second half of "Piddle Twiddle" for the dvd...because he didn't wind up locating footage that was better than the LD stuff? And where did he discover the color version of the short scene in which Cesar Rodney goes outside and admits to his illness? It's from a BW workprint in the LD but is in color and looks great for the dvd. Confusing indeed, all of this. Even more confusing is that Hunt is on the record saying that now he relents and wants to do another version which includes the 12 minutes he left out of the dvd. Pretty lofty, considering that he spent the rest of his career directing some of the worst tv shows ever to air...


As for IAMMMMW, I think most of the confusion stems from the fact that no one's really provided a list of scenes that were actually cut from the Roadshow version. We have some extras scenes, and extensions of scenes on the LD, but no one's said which ones were actually in the Roadshow (if any). And no one's sat down and told me about the origins of scenes that weren't on the LD. Scenes like Monica Krump doing her "divining rod" thing--a scene which is included in the dvd extras of the last version, alas--without sound. And what about the scene with Buster Keaton talking with Spencer Tracy? That one's not on the extras, and no one's said if it exists, and if it was ever in the Roadshow. And what about the scene with Don Knotts and Barbara Pepper in the restaurant? Again--I don't know if it exists, or was supposed to be in the Roadshow. I don't know what's supposed to be in the Roadshow. What about the scene with Pike and Emmaline in the truck talking about the old lady? Was that cut from the Roadshow, or was it discarded before the premiere? Or all the longer versions of existing scenes that were shown in the LD? People like Mark Evanier list differing running times for this movie, but they don't say which scenes were supposedly cut. Were some of them in the LD, or was that all discarded footage? I don't know. Somebody break it down for us, for gods sake--

 

[Stefan Andersson]

Ron -- like you, I prefer the laserdisc cut of IAMMMMW. The extra material contains subtle gags and also creates short moments of calm in between slapstick crescendoes. Personally, I think these pauses give the film a more pronounced rhythm, not just a fast farce tempo, a rhythm strengthening the pacing of the whole film and the effectiveness of the big comedy setpieces. According to a newsletter from the early Nineties restoration effort, these pauses were carefully planned, using an index card system, by the screenwriters, William and Tania Rose. I find that the material in the laserdisc cut, even if only alternate takes or outtakes, gives at least a good idea of this intention by the screenwriters.

 

[Techman707]

Originally Posted by Ethan Riley




Peter Hunt had used workprint crapola in the LD, but miraculously discovered better footage of at least some of the same for the subsequent dvd. But he chose to delete some of the restored footage for the dvd. Not sure why--maybe the only "additional" footage in that dvd is the stuff that looked the best??? Why that be why he lopped off the second half of "Piddle Twiddle" for the dvd...because he didn't wind up locating footage that was better than the LD stuff? And where did he discover the color version of the short scene in which Cesar Rodney goes outside and admits to his illness? It's from a BW workprint in the LD but is in color and looks great for the dvd. Confusing indeed, all of this. Even more confusing is that Hunt is on the record saying that now he relents and wants to do another version which includes the 12 minutes he left out of the dvd. Pretty lofty, considering that he spent the rest of his career directing some of the worst tv shows ever to air...


As for IAMMMMW, I think most of the confusion stems from the fact that no one's really provided a list of scenes that were actually cut from the Roadshow version. We have some extras scenes, and extensions of scenes on the LD, but no one's said which ones were actually in the Roadshow (if any). And no one's sat down and told me about the origins of scenes that weren't on the LD. Scenes like Monica Krump doing her "divining rod" thing--a scene which is included in the dvd extras of the last version, alas--without sound. And what about the scene with Buster Keaton talking with Spencer Tracy? That one's not on the extras, and no one's said if it exists, and if it was ever in the Roadshow. And what about the scene with Don Knotts and Barbara Pepper in the restaurant? Again--I don't know if it exists, or was supposed to be in the Roadshow. I don't know what's supposed to be in the Roadshow. What about the scene with Pike and Emmaline in the truck talking about the old lady? Was that cut from the Roadshow, or was it discarded before the premiere? Or all the longer versions of existing scenes that were shown in the LD? People like Mark Evanier list differing running times for this movie, but they don't say which scenes were supposedly cut. Were some of them in the LD, or was that all discarded footage? I don't know. Somebody break it down for us, for gods sake--

AMEN ! ! !

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Even more confusing is that Hunt is on the record saying that *now *he relents
and wants to do another version which includes the 12 minutes he left out of the dvd.

I can't speak for Peter Hunt. I don't know where he went on record saying this.


However, I do know that he has been under the gun by a lot of fans that have

wanted 1776 completely restored to the laserdisc specs, at least.


I think sometimes directors recognize the fanbase, how they have embraced

their films, and sometimes change their long-standing opinions of how they want

their films to be remembered.


Blu-ray gives the opportunity to present more than one version of a film on a

single disc. I think that opportunity has allowed directors to have more freedom

with the excised material they have.

 

[Techman707]

Originally Posted by GMpasqua

They're not lies at all. Many Directors have said one thing on an audio commentary or in an interview only to say something completely different a few years later.


Peter Hunt approved the "1776" laserdisc but 10 years later re-cut the film and said the earlier cut wasn't what he wanted


The list goes on. Sometimes directors change their opinons as they get older and as they experience changes in current film editing.


How many directors cuts can exist of one film?


How many times (this is my favorite) did Robert Wise say the color changes made on "The Sound of Music" were the correct hue - every time the film was re-released on DVD with a different hue (ie. every time the film was released on DVD.)


Even George Lucas changed "Star Wars" 20 years after he released it, did he really want those all additions back in 1977 or were some of those after the fact desires?


Directors will re-cut a film until they die...art is never finished as long as the director has the ability to re-cut, re-score and add new material

You're right on the money.

In some cases where the director had FINAL CUT, then 10 years later they come out with a slightly different version and say this is "THE DIRECTOR'S CUT"! How many chances do they want? I say, they way the picture was originally presented theatrically is the PROPER CUT and anything after that is just fluff to make MORE MONEY from us idiots.....and we fall for it every time.


But as for IAMMMMW, I just want a beautiful Blu-ray. I only wish that we could have the original 6 channel sound and not Dolby or DTS mix-downs. But I know that's too much to ask.