It Happened Again: The Annual Black Friday Trampling (1 Viewer)

[Malcolm R]

Of course people are responsible for their actions. I'm not going to absolve everyone of personal responsiblity. But I'm also not willing to let retailers off the hook for creating these specific situations that encourage the mob mentality and the savageness that often results. If they didn't run these sales the way they do, they would not be luring people into these escalating, emotional situations (magnified, perhaps, by the state of the economy and the general stress level in every family regarding money matters, especially in the run-up to Christmas).

It's not just BF, but BF is an avoidable, artificial situation created specifically by major retailers for the purpose of luring the mob to the store. You saw similar behavior with the gas shortages in the southeast this past summer/fall. Also, with the distribution of relief supplies in disaster areas. Everyone does everything they can to "get mine" even if that means some pushing and shoving or, for some, resorting to bodily violence.

I'm sure most people didn't arrive at the Walmart on Long Island thinking, "I'm going to get that TV even if I have to kill someone." Most likely, they were mostly rational until they joined the "mob" near the doors and began getting pushed, then pushing back, and it escalated from there. In those situations, people are not generally willing to give ground...they retaliate. It's human nature and situations that may encourage such behavior should be avoided, not created, or you're just asking for trouble and shouldn't be naive enough to act shocked when it occurs.

 

[MarkHastings]

I believe Wal-Mart is responsible for not controlling the situation before trying to unlock the doors. They should know that people are going to rush in (panicy for deals), so there should be some sense of order when opening the doors, but that's all I'm willing to hold them responsible to.

I'm not into this "People can't control themselves, so let's get rid of it" mentality.This is exactly my point. The mob wasn't desperate to begin with. That's why the relief supply and gas shortage examples aren't a fair comparison because those people are desperate to begin with.

The mob only turns crazy once the doors are opened and that's where some of the blame lies with the stores. They need to handle the point of the desperation. That lies with how they handle the opening of the store and not with the hype of the sales.

Let's focus our blame where it should be placed...just like in sports. If a football coach pumps up a player to "WIN WIN WIN" and gets the player all excited; if that player runs out on to the field and illegally hits an opposing player, do you blame the coach for his actions because he was the one that pumped him up? No, the coach didn't pump him up to deliver an illegal action. He did it under the assumption that the player will act according to the rules and can not be held responsible if the player takes that "pumping up" and willingly decides to do something else (illegally) with it.

 

[Radioman970]

Not everybody was yelling that, I'm sure. So there is hope.... But still it's disturbing there are a few out there who would be more concerned with shopping than the death of someone's child the day after Thanksgiving.

I think Walmart is responsible too. For not controlling that crowd.

 

[Lucia Duran]

I avoid crowds like the plague. I do not go to places during times of high volume shopping because I am not interested in losing a loved one or my own life just to have the latest or greatest item. It's just not worth it to me. I was watching old footage of the cabbage patch craze back in the 80's and 3 people were injured very badly trying to get one for their kids. What is this teaching our children when the parents are so out of control that they will push and trample on whoever gets in their way of that cabbage patch doll, Furbie, Beanie baby or Wii?

It makes me sick the way adults can be during these times. There are families in the US that cannot even afford food, clothing or medical care and during the "season of giving" this is what happens in our country. It's so sad.

 

[Dennis Nicholls]

It turns out that people in the death stampede took out their cameras to document the event.....

The Wal-mart stampede, caught on camera

 

[drobbins]

Photo #9 "Blitz Line Starts Here" :rolleyes

Here is another story that happened on Friday, but doesn't seem to be sale related. 2 dead after shooting in crowded Toys 'R' Us - Crime & courts- msnbc.com
What kind of people have a shootout in a crowded toy store?

 

[MarkHastings]

I saw that but didn't post it because it seemed to be gang related, so it's unfair to relate it to BF until it's confirmed whether it was gang related or not.

 

[MarkHastings]

DAMN! There's no excuse for people creating such a mob scene in front of the doorway...and I'd be scared as hell if I had to unlock those doors, knowing that mob lay behind it. That's like opening the flood gates of hell.

And while I hate to blame the temp worker; shouldn't he have raised a concern when faced with that crowd behind the doors? I would have called the police right away for some control before I opened the doors or at least informed a manager that things could get ugly.

 

[drobbins]

Yes BF had nothing to do with the second story. There has been much discussion here about if the trampling was a store issue or a lack of respect of human life issue. The store had a "Blitz Starts Here" sign up and the other story shows how little concern for others some people have.

 

[MarkHastings]

I don't think the "Blitz Starts Here" sign is anything to make a fuss over. Lots of stores have similar terms to describe 'insane' sales.

I mean, what about the "Shop 'till you Drop" sales?

 

[Edwin-S]

I don't see the two as separate issues. The deadly situation that happened was a combination of both.

 

[drobbins]

The "Blitz Starts Here" to me shows how the store was feeding the "frenzy" mentality. Most of the time when I hear the word Blitz is either on the history channel describing WW2 military offensive or a football play where all players charge the QB and trample anyone in their way. It suggests that the competitive race is on. "Shop Till You Drop" is more of a personal endurance challenge. The store knew ahead of time that there was going to be a large crowd and that there would be a certain level commotion. Obviously they didn't plan on anyone getting killed, but they were not prepared for the situation they created.

 

[MarkHastings]

Well, while I agree that the sign is an indication that the store knew there would be a frenzy (thus they should have been well prepared), I can't agree that the use of words is going to make people more hyper.

I bet if the sign said "Lulling to Sleep starts here" that the same situation would have occurred.

And just because the word "Blitz" is used in football, that doesn't give people the right to take it literally...that still falls under the "The Sign Made me Do It!" category.

 

[TravisR]

Obviously I don't know but I would guess that "The blitz starts here" sign was made by someone in line rather than an employee.

 

[BrianW]

Travis, nobody has responded to your excellent analogies (which are far more appropriate than disaster and relief aid distribution), so I thought I would give it a go.

My belief is that, NO, you're not entitled to trample or rob someone to get the DVD UNLESS there's a sign or ad somewhere with one or more of the following words: "Blitz", "Insane!", "Mad Rush", or "Trampleworthy".

It seems that with some contributors here, you may even get off if you can show an ad with the violence-inducing words "Stormtrooper", "Clone War", or "Jar-Jar".

If you're willing to stick your neck out a little, "Limited Quantities" or "While Supplies Last" may suffice, but don't blame me if that doesn't hold up in court.

:rolleyes

 

[drobbins]

I guess because this on page 1 and now we are on page 2 that my point needs restating. Ultimately it is the stores responsibility to ensure the safety of its employees and customers. That is the law and will hold up in court. And no, I don't think a customer wrote the sign. How many people who wait in line just so happen to have some 18 x 24 poster board, a marker and tape to hang the sign with them? Yes, everyone is responsible for their own actions, but like I said earlier, in my past experiences it is usually the guys in the back, who can't see what is going on, doing the pushing. Looking at those pictures, if you were one of the first, do you think you could have stopped - with out being trampled yourself?

There are proven methods of crowd control. I was in Disney land on the 4th of July this summer. Talk about a mob scene in 100+ degree heat. Yet I didn't see any life threating situations. Now maybe if they allowed only 50 people to ride the hottest ride in the park...

 

[MarkHastings]

On my way home I was thinking about the mob in the photos and the fact that a pregnant woman was taken to the hospital. After seeing those photos, why would a pregnant woman want to be in the middle of that to begin with? The more I thought about it, the more I want to place more and more blame on the mob. There's is no one that could imagine that standing in the middle of those people (while the doors are about to be opened) was a good idea. The fact that there was no control to begin with should have been an even better indication of something possibly going wrong.

But of course, people are still going to blame the store. Sure the store didn't make the best of decisions, but WHEN are people going to act responsibly when faced with irresposibility?

Here's a good example: If someone leaves the door to their car unlocked, it still doesn't give me the right to go in and take things because it's the owners fault for not locking the door...even if there's a sign that says "Steal my iPod". Sure it's a dumb thing to do and you are to blame for losing your stuff, but you aren't responsible for the crime that took place.

 

[Bryan X]

I've got to agree with those placing blame on the mob. The store may be "legally" liable to some degree for "creating the situaton", but frankly I don't care who's legally at fault. One can kill a person and as long as there isn't sufficient evidence, a court will declare you innocent-- but that doesn't really make it so.

The point is, people have free will, and those people chose to act in an irresponsible and dangerous manner. In my book they are responsible for this regardless of what any law may say.

 

[BrianW]

I'm not sure to what extent OSHA regulations spell out the requirements for dealing with a mob determined to destroy a storefront and trample innocent people in order to gain access to iPods and Dancing Elmos. Handrails on the stairs? Check. Hardhats in the warehouse? Check. Failsafe switch on the forklifts? Check. Mob-deterring perimeter force field? Let me see... Now where did I put my Lochnar?

I'm not aware of any OSHA regs that cover storefront ingress/egress beyond protection of workers and customers from injury due to falling items, inadequate traction, and other physical/environmental dangers. I don't believe that customer behavior uncivil enough to rack up a body count is within OSHA's intended scope. And just because a worker dies or is injured on the job does not automatically mean there's been an OSHA violation.
It makes sense that, if you blame the venue for crimes committed by the crowd, you would also give the venue credit if the crowd manages to behave to the extent that nobody gets killed. So at least you're consistent.

Still, don't you think it's a possibility that nobody got killed at Disney simply because nobody in the crowd was determined to misbehave to such an unreasonable extent? Sometimes, people actually behave and honestly don't want to trample others to death. Really.

Using myself as an example, I sure haven't killed anybody lately, and I think I deserve credit for that. I'll be darned if I'm going to give credit for my good behavior to my workplace, or to all the stores I've visited lately just because they all had effective crowd control. I've been trying really, really hard not to kill anyone, and I've largely succeeded.

Conversely, if I had managed to kill anybody (lately), I'm pretty sure that I would have nobody but myself to blame, though you'd never hear me admit that in court.

Don't get me wrong -- it's not that I'm not in favor of using water cannons and tear gas on freezing Wal-Mart shoppers. But, like good behavior, boorish behavior is the result of a conscious decision. The consequences of both good and bad behavior become the responsibility of the person who decides to behave the way he does. This is never not true, even on Black Friday.

 

[Malcolm R]

There were no triggers to do so because they know that even if they have to wait for a long while, they'll still get what they want (a ride, entry to a show, or food).

I doubt anyone at Walmart on Friday morning "was determined to misbehave to such an unreasonable extent." But if you're not one of the first people thru the doors on BF, you might as well have stayed in bed. That's the way the sales are set up by the retailers and the shoppers know it. Hence, the "anything goes" competition to get thru the doors to grab one of the handful of prizes.

Adequate stock to meet demand removes the competitive aspect and avoids triggering unruly mob behavior.