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ISF: "Picture Quality" and Evaluating The Goals Of Professional Calibration (1 Viewer)

Rich H

Second Unit
Joined
May 22, 2001
Messages
283
Bryce et al,

Here's a couple screen shot examples of the ISF settings (on my component input) vs my own settings (on my S-Video input). Luckily I've become pretty good at capturing decent screen shots from my plasma.

However, one note: My digital camera does not capture the entire dynamic range of the real plasma image, so a lower contrast picture settings - e.g. the ISF settings - are actually more suited for screen shots. For instance due to it's higher contrast setting, high-light detail plainly visible on my S-Video settings tend to be lost in the screen shots. But, be assured that if you notice detail in the ISF screen shots that seems to be missing or blown out in the S-Vid screen shots, that detail is still there on the real plasma S-Vid image (such as the details within the Principal's white collar). Also DON'T pay attention to color hue - the screen shots are off somewhat from the real deal (there's a red bias in the screen shots). But, you'll get the overall idea.

I was watching "The Nutty Professor" switching between the two inputs and fiddling a bit. My goal was simply to dial the picture in a way that increased the realism. To my eyes, the image went from a somewhat over-rich, soft, "aged movie poster" look to a more believable skin pallor and texture, with added clarity and dimensionality. My calibrated S-Video image had me feeling more like I was seeing a real person through a window, vs watching aged film on the ISF settings.

- I advise opening up two browser windows, one for the ISF images, one for the S-Video images, for easy direct comparison -

First here's a close up of Stella Stevens. You'll probably note, at least, that the image on my calibration appears cleaner and clearer - look at her eyes especially when you switch between the ISF component / S-Video settings.

Stella Cl-Up - ISF settings.

Stella Cl-Up - S-Vid, My Settings

Here are two more shots:

Principal - ISF settings

Principal - S-Vid / My Settings

I'd be curious about people's opinions on these shots.

In comparing my settings vs the ISF settings as I watched the film, I found my settings still carried the look of this early Sixties film, the lighting, colors, mood. But for me the added believability of my settings were a tiny bit further toward a trip back to that time, or window on the time, vs a film strip representation of the period. I hope that makes some sense.

If you want to view a whole bunch of reference images - screen shots of many movies playing on my plasma using my own calibration, click on the link below my name. I think they are both life-like, while remaining pretty true to the look of each film.
 

Bryce Miner

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Aug 2, 2002
Messages
134
First off is the level of saturation is different. It does seem like too much Color comparing your examples with the ISF one. I agree with you that we have the liberty to adjust as needed for specific transfers. I for one, have to raise the Saturation on Braveheart. It is too dull for me. Did you change only Saturation, Contrast, Brightness? or did you mess with color temp too? How good is your color decoder in the plasma?

You still are playing with NTSC where there is never twice the same color. Feel free to adjust as you like per dvd. Do you have the same settings for everything or disc specific?
 

Rich H

Second Unit
Joined
May 22, 2001
Messages
283
Hi Bryce,

Yes, there is a difference in color temperature. I find the ISF settings, which are set within my component signal's WARM mode, seem a bit *too* warm to my eyes. My S-Video signal uses the NORMAL color temperature on my display, which I believe sets the color temperature a bit higher. I happen to like it a little better over-all (but not always). Other than that, I adjusted only Color Saturation, Contrast and Brightness between the two signals, although sometimes I also bring the sharpness up slightly on some transfers. A funny thing is that my S-Video signal is actually a tiny bit more precise and sharp than my component signal. But it's also a bit less color rich as well, which is ok since I seem to prefer less saturation anyway. I also note that slightly de-saturating an over-rich image tends to improve subjective sharpness, with textures on skin and clothing showing through more.
FWIW, I also find that my own settings make for a distinctly more believable image on most HD signals as well (there being quite a variation between those signals too).

I actually don't go too crazy changing around all my settings with each DVD. I've found a happy medium that seems to work for most titles. Although, if I feel a DVD needs it I'll adjust.

I just noticed you are ISF trained. Very cool. Trying to achieve a better picture is a fascinating pass time (or in your case job, I assume?). It must be fun bringing better images to the masses.

Cheers.
 

Bryce Miner

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Aug 2, 2002
Messages
134
Yes it is. I rarely run into someone like yourself that has a strong video desire that will even tweak an ISF calibration.

I do have reserve feelings about changing the grayscale. I do like 6500 kelvin. Changing Saturation, Contrast, Brightness isn't that big of deal, but as needed.

You can get real nitpicky and do a five user adjustment for each thx dvd with it's own optimizer to set up your display for that specific dvd, but I sure don't.

We could also question the actual calibration that was done and diagnose that. Maybe he/she has set the Saturation too high, etc.

I haven't ran into anyone yet that are not impressed with a calibration. I'm sure your settings are way better than how the Panasonic was at it's out of the box state.
 

Thomas_Dorsey

Auditioning
Joined
May 13, 2003
Messages
1
Any consideration for calibrating your pasma for the sports, news and edutainment of TV, where "realism" is to be preferred over film-like. Later, provided you have budget and room, create a digital front projection Home Theater for movies. My two cents.

Thomas:)
 

Marc Carra

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 31, 1997
Messages
767
Rich,

I totally see where you are coming from. I just had my set ISF calibrated yesterday (see my Avical thread), and the resulting image is what the director intended. Does it look slightly too dark for my tastes: yes. Does that mean I have to watch it that way: no. Eliab and Dave recommended I leave it like t his for a few days to re-ajust my eyes to the more accurate image. I'm going to do that, but afterwards if I still find it too dark, I'm going to watch the set with the contrast/bightness a few clicks up from the ISF settings. After all , if you should watch it like 'you' like it, even if it is not spot on to the ISF standards. If you enjoy the image, that's all that matters.

Marc.
 

Michael TLV

THX Video Instructor/Calibrator
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2000
Messages
2,909
Location
Calgary, Alberta
Real Name
Michael Chen
Greetings

Marc ... don't sweat it. Chances are, the TV you have cannot hope to match specs with the broadcast grade stuff the film makers use. As a result of this, the calibrators often have to make judgement calls on things like contrast and brightness and colour and tint ...

They've made their judgement call, now you make yours. Having contrast or brightness up a bit more is fine as long as you realize the implications of doing it. You wouldn't crank your brightness up and wash out the image just so that you could get more black (gray) detail?

You need to watch tv during the daytime or with room light ... then do what you must to compensate. Deviations in grayscale are usually minimal.

If you decide to pop the colour temp to "cool" ... then that would be a major deviation.

Regards
 

Rich H

Second Unit
Joined
May 22, 2001
Messages
283
Marc,

As a humble consumer,I second Michael's professional advice.

It's fairly common that people find their display appears a little "too dark" after an ISF calibration. It's also common for people to adjust to the look and then prefer it.
So, it is definitely worth giving it time.

My contrast levels for watching NTSC TV is waaay down from factory settings - more toward my ISF settings - and I've come to prefer the more "calming" look.

In regards to movie watching, in my case I've lived with my ISF settings for many months (I stuck with them almost exclusively for a couple weeks at first). So, I have a good feel for how much I like them or not. The image is definitely darker than my own settings. But I don't find that to be a problem per se; the ISF'd image looks very fine on it's own. It's mostly in terms of realism and dimensionality that I evaluate my ISF settings as being less preferable than my own settings. And, admittedly my slightly brighter settings all around does seem to bring out more detail, which I have to struggle to find within the ISF settings.

I'd like to hear an update to see if you end up prefering your ISF settings.
 

Marc Carra

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 31, 1997
Messages
767
Michael, I'm not talking "turn up the brightness and wash out the image" , I'm talking "turn up the brightness to actually see what's going on in CSI" The image was so dark that I couldn't watch any HDTV networks , even in a pitch dark room.

Marc.
 

Michael TLV

THX Video Instructor/Calibrator
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2000
Messages
2,909
Location
Calgary, Alberta
Real Name
Michael Chen
Greetings

Did anyone mention to you that it is somewhat of a waste of time to calibrate the TV to a HDTV signal generator? Unless you only watch the generator test patterns, everything else will in all likelihood be "off" in some manner.

HDTV programming is about as irratic as regular cable and satellite programming. Some of the stuff is too bright, some too dark, some tinted all wrong ... Calibrating the HD section is a lot like trying to calibrate for cable ...

A couple of clicks either way with the contrast and brightness just isn't gonna affect the grayscale that much. You should be fine.

Regards
 

Marc Carra

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 31, 1997
Messages
767
Thanks for the re-assurance , Micheal. After all the work the guys went through to calibrate my set, I actually feel 'guilty' watching it any other way, but like you said , broadcast signals are all over the map, in terms of picture settings. I actually had them calibrate my display using a 1080i upscaled dvd signal from my HTPC, since that's how I watch dvds most of the time. That would probably account for the picture difference.

Marc.
 

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