Is the format war about to resurface? Does Toshiba have the Blu-ray killer? (1 Viewer)

[DeeF]

I wasn't really thinking it would be a combo disk, with two separate versions of the movie on separate sides of the disk.

I was thinking more of a single disk, with a single high-def version, sold as a DVD.

When you put this new super DVD into a player, the picture automatically uncompresses and "downconverts" to the exact resolution of the television it's being output to.

It's not an impossibility -- it's what cable DVRs do.

The player itself can have a permanent hard drive. When you insert the disk, the movie is automatically transferred to the harddrive and uncompressed. When you play the disk, you're actually watching the version that's on the harddrive, uncompressed and high-def.

The resolution will only be limited to the resolution of your television.

 

[Aaron Silverman]

Good luck with the "plays perfectly in all existing DVD players" part.

At any rate, there is no talk of a new disk format. This is a new player that supposedly does a better job of upconverting SD-DVDs than existing upconverting players do. That's all.

 

[DeeF]

I don't think it's at all clear what this new technology is; just that it will be backwards compatible with existing DVDs and DVD players.

This could be a new kind of disk, that will play in your old player and look like high-def.

Or, it could be a new player that will upconvert old DVDs in a new, better way.

Or it could be both a new player and a new kind of disk.

 

[PattyFraser]

Dee I so hope you are wrong in that they are not interested in the technology (DVDs) that we already own. That's what I am most wanting to do--upconvert the many DVDs that I have that I KNOW will never come to Blu-Ray. I have a couple of upconverting players, one an older Sony and a pretty recently purchased Phillips, which does just okay. My sister purchased an OPPO and is very disappointed with its upconversion. We purchased those players (except the Sony) because they could be hacked to region 0, and most of our favorite flicks are Britflicks.

Can't wait to hear more about this new player, and hope it's not just looking at new "superdisks" for its upconversion.

 

[DeeF]

I just don't think there's too much more we can do with DVDs, the ones we already have. "Upconverting" isn't a very good name for the process — it's really just making the DVDs look as good as possible.

But I definitely believe there could be a new technology applied to the next generation DVDs, which could make the picture and sound better.

Perhaps it's a different compression. Perhaps the DVD will hold a lot more information; obviously, we don't know.

But I think this technology will be applied almost exclusively to future DVDs, not the ones we own already.

They won't give it a name like Super DVD or HD DVD, or any other name but DVD. And everyone will buy them just as they now buy DVDs.

But these new DVDs will have a better picture, and better sound.

That's the only way I think they could kill Blu Ray, which already has a better picture and sound.

 

[Joseph Bolus]

Again, what we're hearing is that the new Tosh players will first mitigate MPEG-2 compression artifacts and then upconvert.

The so-called "Super DVD" --- which may or may not happen --- will supposedly add Blu-ray's interactive features. It will take one of the new Tosh players, of course, to decode the interactive layer. The same DVD will still play just fine on all "regular" DVD players, but the interactive layer will be ignored. It's also rumored that the addition of the interactive layer will provide some additional copy protection to regular DVD.

 

[DeeF]

So, just as I imagined, a new kind of player and a new kind of disk.

You'll have to buy at least something from Toshiba to get a better picture.

And I honestly doubt that the new player will make old DVDs look as good as BDs.

 

[Joseph Bolus]

I don't think that anybody seriously believes that this new upconverting process will make DVDs "look as good as BDs". The real question is whether or not it will make DVDs look "good enough" on the average 1080p 42" plasma/LCD flatpanel such that the average consumer-on-the-street doesn't feel a need to upgrade to Blu-ray.

I view my DVDs on a projector so I need Blu-ray. (Or some kind of true HD optical format.) But I'm probably not representative of the average consumer.

I still think that Toshiba would be well served to build a BD deck with this new upconverting circuitry built-in. They could charge a $100 premium for the technology and most of us with large existing DVD libraries will happily pay the additional cost.

But it doesn't appear as though they're "on board" with Blu-ray just yet. *sigh*

 

[Aaron Silverman]

What is your source for this?

 

[Joseph Bolus]

I read this via a story linked on DIGG.COM. Of course, it's all just speculation at this point.

What's not speculation is that Toshiba has applied for and received a new DVD logo which will presumably be on the new players.

The info on the new logo can be found here:

New Logo From Toshiba Connected To The Blu-ray Killing DVD Player? | TV Snob - TVSnob.com

 

[Chris Gerhard]

There was a big thread at the High Def Forum today with some screenshots. I don't have a clue how good this new Toshiba process is going to be personally. I think current DVD upscaling technology provides great results and I see many people express opinions that current players make DVD look so good that they won't buy a Blu-ray player. If this is even better, then it might have an impact on Blu-ray adoption, but will only serve to limit the market penetration, Blu-ray is here to stay, it is that good. Blu-ray will be better than DVD no matter what process is used to scale, that much should be clear to everybody. How much better it looks on each individual's display will be the deciding factor. I welcome the new techology if it lives up to the hype but I am pretty heavily invested in standard DVD players, including an Oppo, a Samsung BD-P1200, a Toshiba HD-XA2, a nice Denon and others that work great by today's standards and will sit this techology out for at least several years. I have true HD sources such as Blu-ray, HD DVD, D-VHS, HD DVR's and it will certainly not hurt me to sit out at least once with this silly hobby.

Chris

 

[Holadem]

Is anyone else having echoes of DPLII? While I haven't seen anything quite that strong in this thread, there was A LOT of vitriol back then following the announcement of DPLII (and DTS Neo), as many felt for some reason that the then-new technology was useless, and "a step backward" and woved to never use it (or even to avoid receivers featuring it.) Some may have felt as thought it threatened discrete 5.1 somehow?

Years later, I think DPLII was a friggin miracle for what it could do with pure 2ch or even DPL sources. It got rid of DPL's unfortunate tendency to collapse everything to the center, and created a big wide soundstage. TV had never sounded better.

So could this thing be to current upconversion as DPLII was to DSPs? I supposed the difference is that while most here wouldn't touch a DSP with a 10ft pole, upconversion is thriving.

I will acknowldge being out of my depth here as I don't own an HD display or upconverting player

--
H

 

[Clinton McClure]

Perhaps it's simply a way for Toshiba to creatively resell their stockpile of HD-DVD players...

 

[Darryl]

Or maybe it's something along the lines of HDCD, which manages to squeeze 20 bits of audio information into a standard 16 bit redbook CD by sneaking some meaningful bits into inconspicuous places in the stream.

 

[Hartwig Hanser]

It looks like that the first product with this new tech (now called Resolution+) is a TV (source: German new site Areadvd AREA DVD » IFA: Erste Toshiba LCD-TVs mit CELL-Prozessor)
It is based on a Cell chip.


"Resolution +" image processing depends on the image content and consists of three steps.

Firstly, the picture is divided in several areas, according to three picture categories: "highly detailed", "sharp-edged" and "dark and non-detailed".

Secondly, each of these areas is processed. For "highly detailed" areas, a computing algorithm calculates the finer details. "Sharp-edged" areas are smoothed. Dark areas as well as those that have scarce detail undergo no picture processing in order to avoid unnecessary video noise.

Finally, artifacts that the calculation process may have caused are corrected.

source of translation: Blu-ray Forum - View Single Post - Toshiba upset with Blu-ray questions.

 

[Paul Kemp]

If this is true then it doesn't sound particularly exciting - we've had adaptive video processing for some years.

 

[Chris Gerhard]

I can't see how. The players can't be updated to use the process and basically Toshiba is claiming a true HD disc format isn't needed, most consumers will be delighted with their new upscaling process. Either way, it is telling consumers to not buy the players. I also think Toshiba has blown out inventory except what is needed for warranty coverage purposes. We may see a wave of refurbished players come from Toshiba, but it is unlikely much new A stock is left to be blown out.

Chris

 

[Aaron Silverman]

That doesn't imply a new disc format. It could simply be used for the player technology.

 

[David Deeb]

Well wonder no more. According to this article (and another one on Video Business) this machine is available for sale today, August 18. Toshiba Debuts ‘Near-HD’ DVD - 8/18/2008 4:01:00 AM - TWICE According to their own spokesman, this machine "is not meant to replace, kill or compete with Blu-ray," he said. I think if its so good, why don't they just make a BluRay with this in it? Or license it for use in other BluRays. Oh well. Someone going to take the plunge and report back?

 

[Ronald Epstein]

David,

Already been discussing all of that HERE