Is speeding wrong? Should radar detectors be illegal? Let's find out! (1 Viewer)

[Rob Gardiner]

 

[LDfan]

I also saw that documentary on the autobahn. It said that it is roughly 3ft deep with various levels on concrete and other road-type materials! I think the show said that the average us road is rought 12-14inches deep.

http://home.att.net/~texhwyman/autobahn.htm

One of my economics professors said that if everyone wanted to truly be safe while driving the best device to install in every single car would be a sharp dagger protruding from the steering wheel. If that were the case then everyone would be driving very safely

Jeff

 

[Malcolm R]

One of the towns here just lowered the speed limit on their Main Street to 15 MPH. And their Main St. is a fairly well-traveled state highway, so it's pretty ludicrous.

 

[D. Scott MacDonald]

I don't think that ti's possible at all without sacrificing our quality of life significantly. Heck, you wouldn't even be able to drive your car because all of the gas is delivered by tanker truck. Yes, you can build pipelines, but these pipelines often aren't safe and are extremely expensive to build. And then of course, we only have one brand/type of gas to choose from unless they built multiple pipelines.

And we would do all of this so that you can have the illusion of safety while driving 90MPH?

 

[DaveGTP]

Discussion without facts is pointless and gets nowhere . Here's some interesting speeding related articles (a few of the links are dead now).

http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/p-sl.html


Here's a good factoid from this page, which is good reading:


http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/sl-irrel.html


This was the results from a federal study of speed limits.


Here's a good little extract.


I will just note that my wife's mother is kind of slow. And she drives that way to show it. Her driving frightens me. Her father is cocky and drives slow. He especially drives slower behind semis to get better gas mileage.

She has been in like 500% more accidents with them than the statistical average a person should be in. And that was before she was 18. Just an anectodal example.

 

[Eric Kahn]

The US already moves more freight (percentage of total freight shipped) than europe does on trains

our railroad system is pretty much operating at capacity under the current control system, Block controls and the major railroads are already regretting the amount of track that was "abandoned" or torn up trough the 70's and early 80's since they lost the right of ways in the process

 

[Todd Hochard]

I spent some time in Germany last year, and I did a bit of traveling to a few different customer sites. All told, about 1000km of driving all over Southern Germany, including much time on the Autobahn. I had a C-Class Benz, with a 1.8l supercharged 4cyl, and a 6sp manual (Avis rental!).

Some things noted-
1. They can just flat out drive. I'd call it courteous aggressiveness. They COMPLETELY understand keep right except to pass.
2. The speed limit for trucks on all parts of the Autobahn is 100kmh (about 60mph). Passing a truck at 220kmh is a bit disconcerting at first, but you get used to it.
3. You have to learn to be more aggressive with the vehicle. Braking, in particular. No "lollygagging" on the pedal.
4. Every inch of the Autobahn that I drove on, where the two sides were even remotely close together, had a center barrier, typically reinforced cable. My German friend tells me that crossover accidents are about non-existent on the Autobahn.
5. They do not continue to drive at obscene speeds once off the Autobahn.
6. The road construction of the Autobahn is head and shoulders above our Interstates. SSSMMMMMooth (and I live in FL, where the roads are generally smooth). Except for a couple of pieces of A8 (Stuttgart to Munich), but my friend tells me that was laid down under Hitler.
7. The speed is only "unlimited" outside of major areas. As you approach cities, it drops to 120kmh, then 100kmh, typically. Any place where road conditions warrant gets a limit, too (e.g. the mountains between Stuttgart and Munich had a 100kmh limit).

It seemed most people were traveling in the 140kmh range (90mph or so). I saw very few cars running all out. I spent most of my time at 140-160, with a few blasts to 230kmh or so, just for.

In all of that driving over a two week period, I saw one accident, and that was in a town.

What do I think of speeding? It's not speeding that's the problem. It's the ignorance, and arrogance of too many drivers, something that I just did not see in Germany. No cutting off, no using the shoulder as a passing/merging lane, no flip offs and brake checks at 75mph, no bumper riding at 70mph, no four more cars through the red light. THAT is our problem here, IMO. But, we haven't really built our Interstate system for maximum driver safety, and our cars aren't really built for speed (sloppy handling, undersized brakes), so we aren't set up to run like the Germans. Not to mention that there are just about NO pickups and SUVs on the road over there.

Todd

 

[Rob Tomlin]

Wow.

Thanks for the enlightening statement. We are all better off after reading your well reasoned opinion. Hopefully those who disagree with you and think 90mph is safe will take what you said to heart, and kill themselves.

:rolleyes

 

[Chris]

There has almost never been a greater disaster then what "Rails to Trails" is doing to a lot of the countryside, farmers, and small communities :frowning: But that's another thread.

Still, the comparison with the autobahn, etc. is non-sensical; Europe doesn't have remotely the amount of double/triple tractor trailer truck and shipping lanes that travel interstates we do. Not even remotely close. And while you're great in your car, ask yourself again: is it a good idea to have a walmart double-tractor truck, which weighs about 10 times what your car does, come flying down the road at 90?

 

[DaveGTP]

As I understand it, this is the reason that the no-speed limit thing on the Montana freeways actually reduced accidents & fatalaties. No people going "I'm driving the legal speed limit, so I can pass 2MPH faster than the semi in the right lane" creating traffic lineups.

 

[Yee-Ming]

I haven't driven on an Autobahn myself, but was in the passenger seat while my uncle was driving. He was doing a relatively modest 130 kmh, and it was disconcerting to see Porsches and other luxury cars just whizz by and overtake.

IIRC, some time ago the Economist had an interesting article about the differences in road construction of the US Interstate Highway system, and the German Autobahns. I don't remember the details, but I think the gist of it was, the Autobahns were built to last -- at least 40 years or so before needing repairs -- whereas the US Interstates were built by the lowest tenderer and hence develop potholes and other nasties relatively quickly. Go figure.

 

[LewB]

As someone who works with German engineers on a daily basis, I can't help but think that their highway system is a reflection of the people. The ones I know are for the most part meticulous planners who don't much like to stray 'outside the lines'. They seem to focus on objectives. I wonder if that carries over to the driving. They know that they will be going at a high rate of speed so they understand that adhereance to the rules of the road is key to completion of the goal (getting from A to B in one piece).
Whereas we Americans pride ourselves on out 'ingenuity' and ability to adapt. I wonder if that leads to sloppy driving habits that are made worse at speed ?

All this makes me think that comparing the American highways and the German highways is not as clear cut as you might think. You need to compare the people using them also.

 

[Shayne Lebrun]

Yes, there's going to be that cultural part; Germans (as a 'stereotype,' and not the negative version of that word) are very efficient, like to follow structure; you'll hear a German clucking about how things in the States or Canard are 'nicht in Ordnung;' literally 'not in order' but perhaps better translated as 'disorderly' or 'chaotic.'

 

[Kirk Gunn]

Gotta chuckle at the phrase "is speeding wrong "?

If speeding is wrong, it's dangerous to be right. I just delivered a canoe to a friends house and went the speed limit (ok - I admit I rarely do the speed limit...)

I was the slowest vehicle on the road. Lots of honking, finger flipping, etc....

 

[Patrick Sun]

In Atlanta, on I-285, the speed limit is 55mph, but no one, I mean no one in their sane mind is going to go that slow because the flow of traffic is usually 65-70mph (unless it's "rush" hour). Cops do pull drivers over on I-285, but it's usually for doing 80mph and up. You just have to know the lay of the land when it comes to driving speeds (like driving through small towns, you're better off doing the speed limit and no more).

 

[Mike Voigt]

A few things about the Autobahn in Germany:

1. constuction is vastly different. They go down 3-4 ft into the ground and start building the road base there. We don't.

2. Curves are built differently; they add a bit more steepness to allow for faster traffic.

3. Surfaces are different. They are, as already mentioned, very smooth; the difference is in roadtest areas, and in areas that may either get lots of rain or snow. Then the road is built accordingly.

4. Speed limits vary. There are open sections where they can go unlimited, but there aren't too many of those. Germany's quite densely built, the roads connect the major centers, although they do tend to build new A's way outside of town and add connectors. A good thing; you don't automatically have an interstate running through a major metropolitan area. Where they do (the Frankfurt/Darmstadt/Mannheim area comes to mind, as well as the Ruhr area) the speed limits are there. And the penalties are STIFF - including loss of license at much lower conditions than here.

5. There is a stiff penalty for not keeping to the right. Not heavily enforced, but it is on occasion, and it keeps most everyone to the right. Not at all enforced here. Also, once you're done passing, you're EXPECTED to open up the lane for the driver impatiently behind you. Signalling is by flashing of lights and blinkers.

6. The above breeds the bad habit of people leaving their blinkers on continuously, flashing you from half a mile away, and driving up real close. Same as here, but at much higher speeds. Not exactly fun. Most of those drivers are in Beemers, Porsches, or Mercedes. As a result, they have in general a bad reputation for that. Not ther car - the expected driver in such a car.

7. The highways are kept very clean; most of them are cleaned at least once a month, frequently more often. this cuts down on the amount of damage from objects on the road.

8. They have an elaborate system of detours (Umleitung); those who have been there may have noticed the small "U" signs with numbers; they are laid out in advance and people are advised over radio which way to go. Wish we had that here, too.

9. Their radio system works well - the radios over there are capable of turning up in volume whenever road condition news are coming through. That way, you can turn on the radio, but turn the volume down all the way; it'll come back up for the road news and then turn back down. Wish we had that here.

10. The equivalent of the state highways - the "B" or Bundesstrasse - are built almost as well as the A's. Some of them have unlimited speed - and that is on a regular two-way road. This is only done when there is enough visibility; you are expected and required to stay within those limits.

A few points. There's more - the gigantic bridges they build across major valleys, for example - but maybe later.

Mike