Is Music Being Crowded Out By Movies? (1 Viewer)

[Jordan_E]

Well, $11.98 for my DARK SIDE OF THE MOON seems like a reasonable price. Only if I could pick up other CDs at that price level I'd be purchasing a hell of a lot more rather than listening to my various Christmas/birthday present CDs! Yeah, I'm cheap!

 

[JerryLA]

I have a question to all the folks who have large DVD collections. How often do you go back and pull a DVD off the shelf and rewatch it. I have a very moderate DVD collection, around 60 titles. Once I watch the movie I don't really enjoy watching it again say in the next couple of months unless it is a really strong title. I have a large CD collection of over 1000 titles that I constantly pull from and listen to on a regular basis. I guess it is just personal preference. I have to admit that with fewer CD titles I'm interested in, the draw is definitely towards DVDs. I've purchased a few that I know I will never put in the player again. As someone stated earlier, with CDs its much easier to do other things whereas the DVD damands your attention in front of the set.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Jerry- That's why I switched from buying DVDs to Netflix. When DVD 1st came out, I did a lot of buying, and even more as the prices came down. But I discovered that, like perhaps yourself, it's easier to say listen to a CD 3 or 4 times over a month and put it away for 6 months or so (how I listen to CDs anyway), vs the viewing habits for a DVD (once a year, maybe?). Another way to look at it: I *still* have DVDs I've purchased and haven't yet watched, but not CDs. (At least in my case too, when I listen to a CD, I'm reading the paper, a magazine, a book whatever. So it's a 2 for 1 too.)

 

[JerryLA]

I agree Kevin, I've used Netflix since I bought my first player and have been well pleased with that type service. It's funny how things change. Twenty years ago I would sit down and "listen" to a cd with the same attention I would give watching a movie on DVD. These days just don't seem to be able to do that very often.

 

[Marc Colella]

I believe DVD is helping kill the sales of CDs.

There's just more value in a DVD than a CD.
40-80 minutes of music just can't compete to 90-180 minutes of a film with a nice amount supplements - all for roughly the same price (or a little higher, some cases lower) as a CD.

Concert DVDs are selling extremely well also (much more than DVD-A and SACD ever will). The visual aspect of it is very important to consumers.
We live in a visual age, MTV and the internet are examples of this.

DVD has created quite the revolution in home entertainment. More and more people are purchasing home theatre systems for their homes to get the theatre experience. In fact, I bet the increasing boxoffice has alot to do with DVDs popularity. People seem to be more interested in film since DVD was released, and I believe the inclusion of supplements are part of the reason.

It's no coincidence that almost every music store I go to has reduced the shelf space for CDs, while increasing space for DVDs.

I also believe that in order for the music industry to survive, music needs to converge with video. DVD-A might have a chance to be the next music format of choice if more video information is provided.

If the music industry thinks times are bad now, wait until DVD gets the market penetration that VHS use to have.

 

[Sathyan]

DVD's have been crowding out my CD purchases (my Netflix subscription costs what buying 2 CD's a month would). In the last year, I've purchased more DVD's than 2 decades of VHS. Many of these DVD's have been live concerts (Corrs: Live at RAH; Corrs: Live in London; Diana Krall: Paris; Norah Jones: New Orleans recently plus operas). I just noticed HMV is offering for $16 "The Best of the Corrs" DVD which is 18 of their music videos. I am very interested in seeing releases like this, of music videos on DVD - perhaps on the flip side of the audio CD/SACD/DVD-A recording - Sometimes I just turn off the TV and listen to the videos just like a CD but in 5.1

I could record these DVDs to VHS but I don't. Not because of macrovision (simple to defeat) or respect for intellectual property but because I'm getting my money's worth.

A number of the record companies also release DVD's so providing video content to go along with the music should be do-able. Of course, when they do this the discs should be all-region.

Record companies:
Sony
Warner
EMI
Vivendi (Universal)
BMG

Hollywood Film companies:
Sony
Warner/MGM/UA
Fox
Vivendi (MCA)
Disney
Paramount


-Sathyan

 

[Mike Broadman]

There's just more value in a DVD than a CD.

Well, it depends on how you look at it. Yes, a DVD has more stuff on it. But, at least speaking for myself, a DVD is watched once or twice for the most part. Once I watch a movie and go through the extras, it just sits on the shelf. There's a good chance it will never be picked up again, and if it will, only once or twice.

Music, however, is listened to repeatedly. I have almost 2000 CDs and they all get spun. There are some I've listened to literally dozens of times, as well ripping onto MP3 for the car.

 

[Chris Farmer]

For me at least it's about pricing. As a college student, I'm not going to risk $18+ on a CD from an artist I don't know. I will spend that on artists I know, but I have most of their works anyway. The prices on CDs need to come down, and there needs to be some more variety to things. Quick, what's the difference etweeen Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera? The location of the piercings. My tastes are quite eclectic, running from pure classical (using the broad definition of the term, not just true Classical-era music) to heavy metal (LOVE Iron Maiden and old-school Metallica), hard rock, classic rock, New Age (big Jim Brickman fan here), soundtracks (John Williams is a genius), to some stuff that I don't know where it goes (Blue Man Group). Not much nü metal or pop here though, how many quality heavy metal albums are released a year?

But the biggest problem remains pricing. I got Iron Maiden's new live album rock in Rio last May, paid a little over $20 for it, thought I got at least a decent price for a double disc album. When the DVD came out, I got it for $15. Need I say more?

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Quick, what's the difference etweeen Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera? The location of the piercings.

I had not heard that one before - classic!

 

[Seth_S]

This is misleading. The movie industry is the only entertainment industry that judges success by gross, not number of sales. If you look at actually ticket sales, I believe that there has been very little growth in the last few years.

As others have noted, the problem with CDs is that they are still priced unreasonably high. DVD has managed to go mainstream so quickly because of price. Almost all new releases are easily available for under $20, and most catalogue releases for less than $15. What's really insane is that concert DVDs for any genre tend to cost less than their CD counterpart while boasting more better sound and extra features.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

As others have noted, the problem with CDs is that they are still priced unreasonably high.

Most of us agree, but the question is "how do you fix it?"

 

[Seth_S]

While movies may be grossing more, production costs are also increasing, so is Hollywood really making more than ever?



Since I only listen to classical, I'll comment just on that.

Classical CDs remain the most expensive. New releases average 15.99. An opera spanning 3 CDs will easily cost you $50. In result, catalogue reissues at mid and budget price are far more competitive than new releases.

Step 1 - bring the price of new recordings down to 11.99

One of the reasons the cost of making a new recording are so high is because of orchestra recording fees. This is a difficult problem to overcome since most orchestras rather go unrecorded than lower their fees. One solution has been to use little known orchestras who are actually quite good. However, most people want to hear only the very best. If orchestras aren't willing to give in to lower fees, recording companies have two options: 1. Live recordings - and don't spend tons of time and money trying to mix out someone coughing. 2. Hold recording sessions during rehearsals (this is a bit more expensive than the first idea, but much cheaper than having to pay conductor and orchestra to go into the studio). Because of issues with recording fees, I think the future of classical music recordings are self produced recordings by orchestras, such as the LSO Live label, and the SFS Mahler Cycle.

Next, major labels need to take advantage of DVD-video. Most, if not all new opera recordings should be made specifically for DVD. Collectors have little interest in new recordings because they already own multiple copies of many operas, and prices are quite high as mentioned. Newbies (really everyone) rather buy the legendary recordings available at mid-price. Opera recordings on DVD are competitive because they cost only $20-$40 compared to $40-$60 of a new release, you can see the action, there are live running subtitles, and they only span 1-2 discs opposed to 3-4 on CD. While none of the major labels (Philips, DG, Decca, EMI, Sony) are doing this, small companies who only deal with DVD-video are, and they've been quite successful. Since major labels are so afraid of making new opera recordings because of the cost, these indie labels are even managing to record many high profile artists.

Lastly, DVD-video orchestral recordings could be used to attract new comers to classical music (and would interest serious collectors). Here's an idea that no one is doing: video orchestral recording, LPCM and DD/DTS surround sound tracks, commentary in the form of the subtitle track, and some interviews, MSRP $20. Universal Music (Philips, DG and Decca) have literally hundreds of video recordings by their most distinguished artists rotting on their shelves that could be given new life with this idea (many have been released in Japan only with LPCM tracks).

 

[Sathyan]

Lastly, DVD-video orchestral recordings could be used to attract new comers to classical music (and would interest serious collectors). Here's an idea that no one is doing: video orchestral recording, LPCM and DD/DTS surround sound tracks, commentary in the form of the subtitle track, and some interviews, MSRP $20. Universal Music (Philips, DG and Decca) have literally hundreds of video recordings by their most distinguished artists rotting on their shelves that could be given new life with this idea (many have been released in Japan only with LPCM tracks).

I really like this idea. But would it undermine live performances. I'm not sure why I go to concerts anymore.

I wonder what the comparative financial figures for concert admissions and cd/dvd sales are in classical/opera.

 

[Seth_S]

Tickets sales generate little revenue for orchestras. Orchestral recordings can cost in the hundreds of thousands to make, so you have to sell quite a few CDs to turn a profit.

Another advantage of video opera recordings is that many opera performances are recorded for TV, so labels can often split recording production costs with them. For instance, Radio-France broadcasts a good number of opera performances at the Théâtre du Châtelet and lately they've been working with DVD companies like TDK and Arthaus Music to turn their broadcast into DVDs. They tend to be pretty good - sharp 16:9 video and decent DD and DTS mixes. I know right now they're working on creating a DVD-video recording of Gardiner's production of " Les Troyens" this fall (Philips didn't want to pay for this project, so Gardiner went to the Châtelet)

 

[Justin Lane]

Since most people do not care about sound quality, I think to a certain extent Music is being crowded out by movies and in particular, DVD sales. With limited funds each week to go towards entertainment, I think most people would rather spend $15 on a special edition DVD then on a CD with only a couple of good songs. For those few quality songs they are easily downloaded on MP3 for free, or heard readily played out on the radio. Developing talent may be a solution, but I think the album needs to change from being looked at as a medium to generate a couple hit singles, and instead as an complete piece of work and more of a large event. This is unlikely to happen anytime soon, so music sales will probably continue to decline.

J

 

[John Geelan]

Right now you do get more value in many of the DVD releases than you do with music cds.

Popular music these days is pretty poor so I end up just buying the remasters of older music (like DSOTM in SACD Surround).

My cd purchases are way down but my purchases of SACD and DVDA is way up.

 

[Jeff Kohn]

I agree with much of what's been posted already in this thread. CD's are priced too high, especially in comparison to DVD's. At the same time the quality of the product being put out by the major studios is dropping: it's all too common for new mainstream CD's to be released with about 40-45 minutes of music, much of which is filler. You'd have to be crazy to pay $15-20 for that.

That said, if you get outside of the mainstream there is still good music to be found, sometimes at much more reasonable prices. One of the genres that I listen to a lot is metal, and I've found a few mail-order outlets that sell most CD's in the $11-12 range. This stuff is mostly from small and independent labels, which makes me feel a little better about purchasing since I've grown to hate the RIAA and the major studios over the last several years. At $12 a pop, I'll willingly pay for CD's I like, though I must admit I've usually sampled the music via downloaded MP3's first. At $8-10/CD, I'd buy them like candy. At that price it's an impulse buy, about the same price as lunch out (or maybe less).

Ironically, RIAA is so concerned about MP3's and piracy, but it was MP3's that got me interested in music again. I had pretty much given up on the rock and metal genres, the major labels pretty much abandoned this type of music. But thanks to MP3 I've discovered tons of music I never would have even heard of if it hadn't been for the internet. After several years of buying pretty much zero CD's, the last couple years I've started buying again (though still not as much as I would if prices were slightly lower). As an added benefit, most of the stuff I'm buying is from bands and labels outside the mainstream, so I feel like I'm actually supporting a worthy cause when buying their music, as opposed to helping some maga-label offset the cost of their latest marketing flop that they spent millions on. Screw you, RIAA! :p)

how many quality heavy metal albums are released a year?

Well, it depends on your definition of heavy metal, but IMHO a lot of the good stuff is coming from Europe, along with some American bands who are on small labels and you've probably never heard of. Two websites that IMHO offer a good selection of metal at good prices are

http://www.metalages.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv
http://shopping.theendrecords.com/ap...as.theomega/.f

Some of the stuff is pretty hardcore/extreme, but there's also a lot of good stuff.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

I've stopped buying operas on CD for $30 when I can get it with the video for $20.

Excellent. Here is where the value proposition is all wrong. Why buy CD if you can get video + music for much less. If cost is an issue at all, why would sound recording rights be more expensive than video recording rights?

 

[Jeff Savage]

Ok well I have several thoughts some of which are bound to get me in trouble but here goes. First are what I think is wrong:
1) High pirces and low value compared to other media forms out there. Additionally the payment or royality structure between the labels, artists, publishers, and songwriters seems to be very complex.

2) High prices of concerts. Live music shows help to drive the album sales. If you don't go to a concert why buy the music.

3) Sound alike music - already been talked about

4) One or two good songs on an album - already been talked about

5) Bad PR between the RIAA and the young folks with the spare cash to buy music. I personally refuse to buy a CD that I cannot play on my home office PC, my PC at work, the notebook I travel with etc.. I have already run into issues with lots of import titles and this issue.

6) The industry coming up with schemes that prevent me from listening to music when, where, and how I want to instead of assisting me.

How to fix it? Well I don't know. But again some random thoughts
1) Let me LEGALLY burn, purchase, create whatever a CD containing various songs from various artists with a cost of no more than $1.50 a song. If I could pick and choose the songs on a CD that I purchase then $20 is not so bad because I know what I am getting.

2) Focus more attention on fringe or new acts. Cut down the expense of bringing new artists on board by allowing free downloads of one or two complete songs and embrace the electronic distrubition of music (not necessarlly via the internet)

3) Stop showing all the "bling bling" and over the top homes and lifestyles etc. on shows like MTV Cribs. Why should I spend my hard earned money on over priced CD's when all the artists live like Kings? Again just a perception issue with the young folks.

I am sure there are more but that is just a few. If I was the president of ABC record company this is the distrubition system that I would push for:

1) Convert my ENTIRE catalog of recordings into WAV's or whatever and store them on a huge data farm.

2) Put kiosks in Record Stores (and perhaps elsewhere) that have sufficent disk space to hold say all the artists that ABC Records has in the Billboard 500 and high speed connections back to the main data farm. The link is so that if the song that is needed is not stored locally them it would only take short amount of time to spool it from the data farm to the local kiosk.

3) Allow people to come up to the kiosks and create their own CD's from either the locally stored music or from our vast online libary. Of course they would have the oppertinuty to listen to all the songs first before the CD is burned.

4) Start having HD 5.1DD pay per view concerts or "studio sessions" live in real time so that people can get the concert experience in their homes without all the hassle. The Grammy Awards were a perfect example of how this could be sucessful. I mean most of the times at concerts you wind up looking at the jumbo tron anyway.

This to me seems to take advantage of all the lastest technology while bypassing all the costs associated with pressing and distrubtion etc. With the advent of the latest generation of USB memory devices you could even have the listener purchase a 512MB or 1GM USB drive that will play back on a multiude of devices. This would even further reduce the cost as you would not need CDR's and the device could be used again and again with the listener continually changing the songs that are stored on it. Now I am sure that there are flaws in this because I just thought this up but even at today's technology level this seems totally do-able.

 

[Marc Colella]

One thing I've noticed more in the last 6 months or so...

DVD discs are being included with CDs.

Some of the discs are pretty pointless, while others offer music videos and/or concert footage.

But with the inclusion of these DVDs, the labels are admitting that there isn't much "bang for the buck" with CDs and that DVD is such a hot and more inticing format. Of course, sometimes they're increasing the price enough to negate the idea of value.

For instance, Metallica's upcoming CD will include a "free" DVD that features the band playing 11 songs in a live settings.

This brings up a question. If a CD that includes a DVD are priced the same as a CD-only release, then why don't they price the CD-only release lower in the first place?
Perhaps we already know the answer to this.