Is Hollywood ready to produce a BIG BUDGT Epic film starring mostly black people??? (2 Viewers)

[Nick Totoro]

I was going to point out this a little, but was afraid it would be too controvertial. So much for that idea...

Too many people hear Moor and automatically think of Black Africans when the word was actually a term used by the Spaniards to describe the Muslims who had come in and conquered the Iberian peninsula. Many of the black Moors went to West Africa after being driven from the area and the Arabs/Caucasian Moors went to Northern Africa or the Middle East.

I'm bringing these things up not to debate history, rather to explain why making a movie like this with an all-black cast is not exactly true-to-life. Regardless what Dennis Hopper says about Sicilians and Southern Italians, fewer than 5% of us have any trace at all of Sub-Saharan or even non-caucasoid DNA. Rather than bore you all and even risk messing up things further, here's a link...

Again, I'm just trying to point that a movie made such as this would not truly be historically accurate. Wouldn't be the first time, but it shouldn't be done just to be PC.

Nick

 

[ToddP]

Pacino, for Scent of a Woman.

 

[Les Samuel]

Why not? Cleopatra starred Elizabeth Taylor in 1963 with a cast that did not look Egyptian to me

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

I think the public, atleast the 18-34 demographic Hollywood caters to the most, is ready. I think it's the studio perceptions of the public which creates an ulterior portrayal.
Basically, Hollywood doesn't believe something's possible until it's already been done by someone else first.
LOTR might seem obvious now, but can you imagine what went through the studio executive's minds when the proposal was making the rounds? A mega-budget adaptation of a 40-50 year old book? Worse yet, a fantasy? Starring midgets and old people?

If one does well, you'll see alot more. But someone has to make the successful first one.

 

[Chad R]

Well, "The Color Purple" was directed by a white guy, which got that one made. And I'd also argue that "Malcolm X" was about being black. But since it's also the last major Epic film with a mostly black cast, and it didn't make its budget back, and had a pretty poor foreign take--and although ten years ago, all the excuse Hollywood needs as to say they don't do well.

 

[Whit]

Would the last couple Matrix movies fall into this category?

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

So because Hollywood stupidly falsified history in 1963 it should stupidly falsify history in a different way now? To what end? I thought you mentioned the examples I discussed because you assumed that these were historical subjects of epic scope where historical accuracy would require a largely black cast.

If that isn't an issue then I'm not sure I understood your original post and I'm not sure why it wouldn't be appropriate to say, "History be damned, there should be some black actors in Master and Commander."

Regards,

Joe

 

[Max Leung]

Keannu Reeves is half-Chinese, half-Canadian (caucasian), just for the record.

I'm still not sure why it is important for Hollywood to produce "epics" starring non-Caucasians. However, with the popularity of Hollywood films overseas, the timing is good after all.

 

[David Tolsky]

Quote:

Well, "The Color Purple" was directed by a white guy, which got that one made. And I'd also argue that "Malcolm X" was about being black. But since it's also the last major Epic film with a mostly black cast, and it didn't make its budget back, and had a pretty poor foreign take--and although ten years ago, all the excuse Hollywood needs as to say they don't do well.

Okay, good point about Malcom X. I wish that the movie did better because it was very well made IMO and had great performances.

 

[KylePete]

I think the problem is that there aren’t too many black writers in the Hollywood circle. I think there are a lot of white writers. And writers are at their best when they write about what they know.

I think it’s still funny how we still have to say “black people”. I guess I grew up in the “MTV generation” that was mentioned earlier and in a place where skin color wasn’t really a big deal. Why don’t people refer to all black and white people living in the U.S. as “Americans”?……not even African American or Asian American. Heck, my ancestors are Norwegian, but I don’t think of myself as Norwegian American. I don’t think it should be a big deal if Halle Berry was the first black actress to win an Academy Award.

While I agree that it would be nice to have a big blockbuster movie with a black majority cast, I don’t think Hollywood should go out of their way to make such a movie just to be politically correct. When people think of primarily “African American movies”, don’t they usually think of films that deal with minority struggle (and slavery), gangsters, or ethnic love stories?

Sorry, I’ve probably gone a little off-topic, and I’m sorry if this goes against forum rules. Feel free to delete my post, administrators.

Kyle

 

[Paul_Sjordal]

This is a good example. The average joe would think "Hey, dem Moors wuz Muslim, wuzn't dey? An' dem terrorists're Muslim, right? Dat means dis movie is pro-terrorist!"

Never mind that the ancient Moors have nothing to do with modern terrorism, you'd never be able to convince your average yutz or your average conservative talk show host otherwise. The latter would be certain to whip the former up into a fine froth over any such movie. A big budget black epic wouldn't stir up quite as much vitriol, but I think the resulting indifference would actually be worse for that movie's box office chances.

 

[Les Samuel]

Nothing wrong with making a fictional tale about Timbuktu.

 

[Mike-M]

I have thought the way Les has for quite some time. And it doesn't even have to be an "epic movie" either.

How about an "American Beauty-like" movie featuring a mostly black cast? Asian? Hispanic? Just something different. Something where it's, say, an all black cast and it doesn't have to be relegated to BET or the Black Starz channel. Where it could, hopefully, become a modern classic of sorts and crack the top AFI 100. A movie to be proud of. One that can garner lots of critical acclaim and maybe even award nominations for best picture.

Just something besides Denzel Washington or Samuel L. Jackson surrounded by a majority white cast and having people claim, "there, are you happy now?"

I just don't see what's wrong with it. It doesn't have to be an epic. Just a well done, well received movie with a minority cast that ISN'T a comedy. You just hardly ever see it, and that has to change. It limits the roles of qualified minority actors as well who would probably get more work if, say, some movies like "Monster" or a "Forrest Gump" type film had a large minority filled cast.

Understand, I'm not saying let's make all black movies. But I am saying Hollywood should make more serious movies with minorities starring in many of the lead and co-starring roles. It would also allow the public to take the movies more seriously if they came out more often.

I do understand the way in which it all unfolds, though. You have a studio/company run by white people. White writers who logically want to make movies about white people. We then probably have a white casting director cast white actors. And then, of course, the majority of the population is white. So, I logically understand why things are the way they are. But I still believe it's been too long in our history and film history to say that, maybe, "Carmen" and "The Color Purple" are some of the only serious all black casted movies Hollywood has made that weren't regarded as "black movies" or "urban films."

This is a good discussion. Let's try not to make it turn personal.

 

[L. Anton Dencklau]

Does Eve's Bayou qualify? Its a fantastic movie.

 

[rob kilbride]

It would appear that there is some debate as to whether the Egyptians were black Africans. The Remember the Time video by Michael Jackson for example. I find this unlikely because the current makeup of Northern Africa are mostly Arabs which are closer ethnically to whites along with Indians (from India not Native Americans. And probably the strongest reason to think they were not black is because as I remember from a World History college course that there was a Nubian Dynasty in Egypt which would indicate that the black Africans were an outside conquering force. I believe I read that there are some smaller pyramids much further south down the Nile. Obviously the idea for these was brought down from Egypt. Now the rise and fall of th Nubian Dynasty could be a great movie!

 

[Erik.Ha]

Honestly, I wouldn't hold my breath.

The unfortunate fact is, that movies with predominately black casts have a habbit of being marketed, sold, and patronized as "black niche films." Thus, white audiences don't hear about them, and if they do, they generally don't go see them. Obviously, the inverse is not true. Films with predominately white casts have a "crossover" appeal to both black and white demographics. Thus, its safer financially to stick with the BROADEST appeal film possible. The deck is stacked against a film making back its production budget ANYWAY. Aproximately 90% don't. When you start talking about "epics" the stakes get even higher because of the huge budgets involved. If the filmmaker then (intentionally or not) targets an audience that amounts to only 10-20 percent of the population, the film is DOOMED financially. The business of film still boils down to "A$$ES IN SEATS."

Last time I bothered to look, the top ten TV shows for African American Audiences had ZERO shows in common with the top ten shows for the "all important" 18-45 year old white demographic. This demographic is vital to advertisers and filmakers, because they are the predominate CONSUMERS in the country, of everything from films to soap. Statistics like these tell studio execs, rightly or wrongly, that black and white audiences DONT like the same stuff. There have been a few exceptions to this rule, such as the "Bad Boys" series, however, those were action films which always have a wide appeal demographically. Thus, big budget films are ALWAYS aimed at bringing in the 18-45 white demo, and "whoever else wants to see it too." However, even if the black audience made up a larger percent of the total poulation, Im not sure it would make a lot of difference. Honestly, and Im embarrased to say this, I think "hollywood" has doubts about whether black audiences are interested in "epic" films, or even films that go beyond comedies, rap stars, or shoot-em ups.

To prove my point, one movie which I (as a white male) thouroughly loved, with an all black cast, was last years "DRUMLINE". It had a GREAT cast of VERY talented young African American actors including Orlando Jones, who I think has HUGE star potential. That film SHOULD have been seen by EVERYBODY. But it wasn't. It had a production budget of about 20 mil (for a total budget after taxes, interest and deductions of aproximately 60 Million Dollars). It made about 50 mil in domestic release. Not a flop, but not the draw it deserved.

However, the real sin was not the lack of Box Office, but rather the marketing campaign of the film, which was in my opinion, abhorible. Instead of playing up the INTELLIGENCE of the coming of age film, the campaign was: "why are men going to see Drumline?" with a cheerleader shaking her tits & A$$ in short shorts and a V-neck. Not a single mention of the PLOT, the predominantly Male Leads, or even what the story was about... It reminded me of late night adds for strip clubs. I remember thinking to myself when I saw it, "this ad seems to be saying that the only way to get young black men to the theater to see this BRILLIANT INTELLIGENT FILM is to trick them in with the lure of sex and "booty" because 'thats all theyre interested in'." It really made me quite ill. I would love to have a sit down with the marketing genius who came up with that, and explain to him my serious doubts that ANYBODY went to see DRUMLINE because they thought it was "ShowGirls part 2". Funny thing is, when I watched the film, I DIDNT NOTICE THE BRIEF SHOTS of the cheerleaders AT ALL because I was so taken in with the musical sequences.

So, I don't think there will be "epic" films with all black casts any time soom. America has shown she is not ready to go see them, and Hollywood has shown its not ready to market them in a way to convince America she's wrong.

 

[KylePete]

Erik, I agree with almost everything you said. It has a LOT to do with marketing and making money. It's a shame, too.

And you're right. How many middle-age and older white people do you know who tune in regularly to watch “The Parkers” on the UPN? Or how many of that same demographic went to go see “Deliver Us From Eva”? Barbershop? He Got Game? I’ve seen them, but I also went to high school when the black culture set all the trends, and a lot of my white friends tried to be black.

I’m sure there are some, but how many films do you know of that actually portray the white culture in America as some unique group that people should be proud to be a part of? This is what I’ve seen in a lot of the movies that are marketed toward the “black community”. Like in many movies, there will be some white guy trying to “act black”, and it’s considered funny (Malibu’s Most Wanted---stupid). I can’t even recall a movie where the opposite is true.

Erik, you bring up a very good point, though. Think of this…..an all black cast for Lord of the Rings (forget about the book for a second)…..

Gandalf----Danny Glover
Aragorn----Wesley Snipes
Legolas----Mekhi Phifer (sp?)
Gimli----Cedric the Entertainer
Elrond----Denzel Washington
Arwen----Halle Berry
Frodo---Gary Coleman?

And so on….

I would definitely think of the movie differently….even if EVERYTHING else was left the same. Plus, for epic dramas, etc., I think we have all become accustomed to the Caucasion, Shakespearean voice.

I hope no one takes offense to what I have written. I think perceptions are changing with the MTV generation. Is America ready for an epic blockbuster with an epic cast? Maybe not as far as money-making goes, but I don’t think that matters too much. I agree with Les, and I think they should make a big movie like this even if the white poplulation isn’t “ready”. Besides, it IS all about marketing, right?

Kyle

 

[Robert Anthony]

Well, no one seems to have a problem with "The Passion" being cast with all white people. That's not historically correct in the least.

Audiences don't necessarily care about factual representation. The films of Oliver Stone typically show that (and I'm speaking more of "The Doors" than I am "JFK")

but yeah, Les and others in this thread have the right idea--it's all in the marketing and the spectacle. The color of the people IN the spectacle usually don't matter after a certain point--and with a rousing epic, it's all about the forumula and conventions, anyway.

Here's a better comparison: Instead of using Lord of the Rings--use Pirates of the Caribbean. Tell me you couldn't reasonably substitute 3/4ths of that cast with minority characters and the result wouldn't stay the same. Hell, THEY'RE IN THE CARIBBEAN. SHOULDN'T they be a little darker than pale-ass pouty Keira Knightley? And if they were, would the box office have mattered? I seriously doubt it.

It'll happen sooner than later. It's all about whether a writer has the balls enough to plug in all those epic conventions, those stories we're used to, and stick em in an engrossing story that just happens to involve predominantly black people.

And we'll all go and munch popcorn.

 

[Seth_L]

How about instead of asking if Hollywood is ready we have some people suggest which well known historical story they should make in a Big Budget Epic that would meet the criteria of having a mostly black cast?

I'll be curious to see what suggestions are offered.

 

[Erik.Ha]

Kyle:

An all black "Lord Of The Rings"... this may sound horrible, but my initial reaction is "it will flop."

Would I greenlight it? NO.

Why? My fear is that white audiences (white audiences = BOX OFFICE) wont turn out.

HONESLTY, Im AMAZED LOTR got greenlighted the way it was in the FIRST PLACE.

Heres the pitch: "Hi... Im Peter Jackson... To date my big claim to fame is "Heavenly Creatures" and "The Frighteners".

"I'd like a half a billion dollars or so, to shoot three films, AT THE SAME TIME, that will appeal to the D&D crowd, based on a series of books which NOBODY I KNOW has ever been able to read all the way through. Oh, and I want to shoot them using (at the time) B list actors and I want to do the whole thing in NEW ZEALAND... for the next 4 years"

The response is, of course, "How about you make ONE and we see how it does at the box office before we sink the companys future in 2 sequels." Jackson's response is "nope... wont work that way... have to do them all at once..."

Now, all other things being equal (i.e. hindsight being 20/20) if the black cast LOTR you suggest had all the great production values, the sweeping cinematography, the music, the effects, etc, I think the race of the actors would sink into the backdrop of the canvas, and be a non-issue, especially by Episode 2, but there is no way a production exec can SEE that before its done. And even if it gets past him, a decision like this goes STRAIGHT to the desk of the CEO, and he is worried about his shareholders and his stock price.

In the end, its a $$$ decision. "As a CEO, whose duty is to his board and his shareholders, do I sink the future of my company on a film that all the statistics tell me, will have LIMITED appeal to a niche market??? Worse, despite the cast will BLACK AUDIENCES even turn out for this film??? YIKES!!!! Somebody bring me that animated talking dog script I was reading last week!!!"