Is "High Noon" the Greatest Western ever made? (1 Viewer)

[Jeff Adkins]

I really have to disagree with Crawdaddy on this one (although I agree with his film opinions most of the time). Something about High Noon just didn't do it for me, even though I'm a big western fan. I found an awful lot to dislike and have no desire to ever see it again.
I'm surprised that more people aren't mentioning Stagecoach, which I'd put up at the top of my list along with The Wild Bunch, The Searchers, and any of the Sergio Leone westerns.
Although it technically doesn't take place in the West, Ramesh Sippy's Sholay is also one of the greatest westerns I've ever seen.
excerpt from Stanley Kubrick: A Biography by Vincent LoBrutto:

together on Wilshire Boulevard after everybody raved about it," Edwards recalled. "He said 'You know, this is not such a good movie.' I'll never forget that line."

Jeff

 

[Robert Crawford]

Jeff,
Please, elaborate as to what you disliked about film? Disagreement in personal film taste is good, it used to keep Hollywood on their toes by making films for everyone, but I'm afraid that isn't the case any longer except for some independent and foreign films.




Crawdaddy

 

[Brad Vautrinot]

Hi Walter,

What I should have said is that Once Upon A Time In The West lacked substance for ME. Your point is well taken but I'm not a big fan of Leone's movies or any of the so-called "spaghetti" westerns. I still cringe every time I think of that greatly overused harmonica tune and found OUATITW slow and boring.

I love to watch Westerns in 2.35:1 and that is my preferred AR and Hign Noon would have looked better (to me) in widescreen but the fact that it's 1.33:1 doesn't diminish its appeal and I didn't find it claustrophobic at all.
______________
"America has no native criminal class with the possible exception of Congress."-Mark Twain

 

[Robert Crawford]

I'm very interested in hearing why you think "Once Upon a Time in the West" is the greatest western besides your preference for wide scope films.



Crawdaddy

 

[Walter Kittel]

Robert,
I posted this in June of 2001. ( Lucky me, I still had a copy stashed on my computer. )
Why I love Once Upon A Time In The West
This film combines a number of elements common to the Western genre in a unique amalgam. One character is driven by the desire for revenge. Another is seeking to survive in a strange and hostile land. One seeks to clear his name. Still others are motivated by avarice and the allure of power. These stories unfold against a Western tableau that is witnessing the encroachment of civilization as the old ways are being replaced by the new.
The great strength of this film is how it balances these stories and uses Leone's skilled camera work to tell a story that is both epic and personal in nature, as mirrored by the wide-screen landscapes and the dramatic closeups favored by Leone.
The central theme of the film deals with how the settling of the West alters the inherent power structure of society as the newer methods replace the old; as business and civilized society supplant the individualist. This conflict between civilization and the individual is developed extensively in the film in such scenes as these:
Mrs. McBain's carriage ride through Monument Valley. The intrusion of the railroad in this location, which is indelibly associated with the Old West thanks to the films of John Ford, signals the change at hand. In this scene, the carriage driver comments about the railroad catching up, further developing this theme.
Aboard the train, Morton ( while holding a sheaf of money ) tells Frank that this is a weapon also and that it is the only one capable of stopping that one ( referring to the gun in Fonda's hand. )

The death of Cheyenne at the hands of Morton. Cheyenne's death is punctuated by the steam whistle of a locomotive, symbolically representing the death of the West, or at least the Old West.
Additionally, the pace of the film is used to contrast these two cultures. Consider the opening scene where the three killers languish while waiting for Harmonica to arrive. Contrasted against this protracted wait is the speed of the approaching locomotive ( and all that it represents. ) This theme is developed in other scenes as well, particularly when Morton indicates his impatience with Frank's progress and his desire to hurry.
The personal side of Once Upon A Time In The West is told through Harmonica's desire for revenge. The same conflict between the old and the new is played out on a personal level, with Harmonica ( Charles Bronson ) and Frank ( Henry Fonda ) representing the old and new West.
Fonda's performance as Frank is one of the things that sets this film apart from most Westerns. The character of Frank is both complex and ruthless and is easily one of the most memorable villains to ever appear in a Western. His introduction in this film is one of the film's highlights as it serves to underscore the amorality, and wickedness of the character.
Bronson's Harmonica is an enigma to the viewer at the beginning of the film, his motives unknown. Bronson is able to give Harmonica a quiet air of menace in a no-nonsense character that contrasts against the flashier nature of Jason Robard's Cheyenne.
Only at the end of the film do we understand Harmonica's motivation for revenge in a wonderfully edited flashback sequence that is as good as anything Leone ever filmed.
Aided by a fine score by Ennio Morricone and Leone's wonderful camera work, Once Upon A Time In the West is a complex, adult drama that I consider to be the best Western ever filmed.
....
As I recall one of your issues with this film is the strength of the supporting cast of characters. I will admit that if the film has a weakness, it is in this area; but as I previously pointed out, The Searchers is also subject to this criticism and I know that doesn't lessen your enjoyment of that great Western.
- Walter.

 

[TonyRyan]

I've never liked High Noon much.
Post Edited By Administrator - Do Not Repost Offensive Comments Again!
So my top five would look something like this.
1. Rio Bravo
2. For A Few Dollars More
3. Unforgiven
4. The Searchers
5. McCabe & Mrs. Miller

 

[Dennis Nicholls]

Well shoot I guess I'll mosey into this here shootout....
I don't have a complete list, and have not really seen some of the big names here. Westerns aren't one of my favorite genres. But of those I've seen I prefer The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. It's not a hero western. It's not an anti-hero western. Instead it's where reality meets legend. Here people are famous for things they didn't do more than for things they did. Ransom Stoddard should have been honored for his administrative efforts in pursuit of statehood and civilization. This is the reality kicking in, where in real life credit is taken without regard for the facts.
An aside: when I began the practice of law I hung a crude sign up in my office reading "Ransom Stoddard - Attorney at Law." But nobody got the joke. :frowning:
Dumb question time: how about films such as The Mask of Zorro and Little Big Man? Are these westerns?

 

[TonyRyan]

Not to blow this out of proportion at all, or take it off topic: but since I am new here could someone please explain why a quote from Hawks on how a part of Rio Bravo was responding to High Noon be Offensive? It was a direct quote (Mostly) and it was the main reason why I never dug High Noon.

Should of I put a "Not to offend anyone" Or something before the quote?

It was on topic and about the movie that this was disscussing. Can I not post negative things about a movie in a thread about the movie? And it was a quote, not from me.

Sorry to take it off topic, but I have no idea which Mod changed it, so I can't PM them.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Tony,
We have women members and I don't care whether your quote was a direct quote from Hawks, I will not permit any member to be insulted whether intentional or not, if that's possible. If you have anything further to say about the matter then please PM me.
Crawdaddy

 

[Robert Crawford]

Dennis,
I would say Little Big Man is a western, though, a non-traditional one.



Crawdaddy

 

[Dennis Nicholls]

Hey, and it has lots of Indians in it! And they're the good guys!

And where the heck is my Little Big Man DVD!

 

[SteveGon]

I'm well aware of Howard Hawks and John Wayne's opinion of "High Noon" which is why I connected "Rio Bravo" to this thread. I don't agree with them and I found it rather funny that it took them 7 years to make a rebuttal to a film that was released in 1952. Furthermore, I don't believe the filmmakers intended "High Noon" to be as entertaining as other westerns, but instead chose to make a film with deeper thought-provoking aspirations.

And I'm glad they did. I also don't care all that much for Rio Bravo.
Of course, I prefer the "serious" and elegiac westerns to the more conventional genre entries.
My top five:
High Noon
The Wild Bunch
The Gunfighter*
The Searchers
Unforgiven
* I can't believe no one has mentioned this little gem.

 

[Steve Christou]

For High Noon completists the film was remade as the SF film Outland in 1981, Sean Connery was Will Kane Marshall O'Neal on the frontier moon of Io, a bunch of killers are on their way to kill the Marshall at noon [Io time] and guess what?
No one is willing to help him, and the clock is ticking....
Please note: there are no Indians, horses or trains on Io, you do get to see a shuttle and some exploding heads though...
We now return you to the wild west...[sound of horse neighing]

 

[Josh Lowe]

my 2 cents

1. the searchers
2. the man who shot liberty valence
3. rio bravo
4. good/bad/ugly
5. high noon
6. fistfull of dollars
7. true grit
8. few dollars more
9. josey wales
10. unforgiven

 

[Seth Paxton]

Oh, I forgot to mention my #1 film...Support Your Local Sheriff.
I do enjoy the films. I also really liked the Maverick film to be honest.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Steve Gon,
There is an interesting connection between "High Noon" and "The Gunfighter". Originally it was reported that Gregory Peck was offered the role of Will Kane, but refused the role because he thought he couldn't match his performance in "The Gunfighter". At the time of filming, Gary Cooper was coming off two box office failures and it was thought his career was on the downside while Peck's career was in full flight. Looking back, I'm glad Peck turned it down because Cooper was the perfect Kane.

Also, from the reliable information I have "The Gunfighter" needs some restoration work before it can be released on dvd. It could be coming in 2003 or 2004. This is also one of my favorite westerns with Peck putting in a great performance as a weary gunfighter.





Crawdaddy

 

[george kaplan]

An EXCELLENT choice, Seth. I also love Support Your Local Gunfighter and Blazing Saddles (my #1 in this category).

 

[SteveGon]

Also, from the reliable information I have "The Gunfighter" needs some restoration work before it can be released on dvd. It could be coming in 2003 or 2004.

That's interesting. I saw The Gunfighter on television recently - TCM I think - and it didn't look bad at all. Anyway, let's hope they can get Peck and Malden to do a commentary.

 

[Lew Crippen]

Robert, it is interesting that you are re-evaluating High Noon. Critical opinion has gone back and forth on this film over the years. It was so highly praised on its initial release, that it was almost predictable that there would be a critical reaction to it later. And as you and many others in this thread have observed, it is a film with so many fine qualities (regardless of number one or number ten ranking) that we now have a critical reaction to the critical reaction—I’m not too sure of how many iterations of this have occurred.

For me, Westerns need to address moral issues to be truly great. Further, these moral issues should be ones that deal with integrity, with bravery in the face of overwhelming odds and with perseverance. That is, what it means to be a man. Westerns that do not address issues such as these, are for me, lesser Westerns, even if they are otherwise very fine films (this is why I don’t place ‘Butch Cassidy’ very high on my list of Westerns).

As well:

Though, I appreciate both Leone's films as fine westerns, I always thought they were a little overrated.

Overrated or not, as they are derivative (of the genre) it would be hard for me to place them high up on a list of (real) Westerns.

I’m in the camp of The Searchers, if one is forced to name a best Western. But equally (or almost equally) I’d place in no particular order:

The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
Rio Bravo
Red River
The Gunfighter (I’m with Steve on this one)
My Darling Clementine
The Naked Spur

I may have missed a mention of this last film—if no one has mentioned it as one of their best, it is on my list of best Westerns. These along with High Noon would make up my list (more than 5 but less than 10) of the best.

 

[DeeF]

I'm not sure what characterizes a good "Western" as opposed to a good movie. At this point, I think that High Noon is a very good movie, and very influential.

The Searchers, on the other hand, is much more flawed, but its set pieces (particularly the first 45 minutes) are divine, inspired works of art. Also very influential.

But The Searchers contains a lot of fat. All the scenes with Vera Miles are lackluster, and actually slow the story down. And Natalie Wood was a poor choice for the girl. She was adequate as an actress, but she looked quite Hollywood-glamorous. When I first saw this film as a college student, I noted Natalie Wood's name in the opening credits, and then quickly realized what part she was playing, so any suspense was lost.