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Is Criterion working on a blu-ray of Heaven's Gate? (1 Viewer)

Winston T. Boogie

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The key moment is when Albeck declined to back up David Field (using the misguided information from Auerbach) after Cimino lied over the casting of Huppert, that Cimino had agreed they would keep looking if he couldn't convince them in Paris to agree to her casting. He reneged on this promise, and as Field states in the documentary, they no longer could trust the word of Cimino. Their wildest speculation led to the budget reaching $20M.
Yes, I agree with this being the key moment in terms of what would unfold with Heaven's Gate but I think you and I differ on how we see this moment. First, I don't see this as Cimino told a lie, and Field does not describe it that way he says Cimino broke his word because Cimino agreed to a deal where if Bach and Field could not understand her English they would try to cast another actor in the part. Two things I would say about this are:
1. Cimino fighting for an actor he wants is no big deal and the number of times this same situation has occurred when making a picture is probably close to the same number of times a lie has been told in Hollywood...meaning this is in no way unique nor does it make Cimino a boogie man because it happens over and over every day. This is a creative decision and seriously how many of those are made on a picture? Field can't seriously think nor would it make him look too swift to say a director being a pain in the ass about something he wanted on the creative side was the moment he knew that director could no longer be trusted...really? The story goes the list of actresses they had an interest in had all passed and Cimino still wanted Huppert...Field was surprised by this? I won't buy that for a second and if Field was surprised and this was a game changer for him this really does look like a place where a rookie got played like a fiddle. This is not at all a major obstacle to have to work around at this stage of the production...director being stubborn about actress he wants...wow, if you can't work with that you should not be in the film business.
2. When Huppert appears in the film her English is just fine and I don't have any issue understanding her and she gives a very good performance. So, what did Field and Bach hear when they had her read in France? So to me Cimino was correct here, her English was fine and her performance was good. He stuck by his actor and was correct.
So the casting of Huppert to me is a non-issue.
Here is what I see as the major issue--In the conversation between Field, Albeck, and Auerbach a budget of $20 million is approved by Albeck. Field indicates he has no idea what the budget could end up being and pulls $20 million out of the air. My bet is that all three of these men knew that Cimino ran over on The Deer Hunter and brought that film in at double what the budget was. Cimino lied and drove people nuts when he was making The Deer Hunter, ran over on time shooting for 6 months, and turned what was going to be a 7 million dollar film into a 15 million dollar film...this was no secret.
When Albeck says they are in for $20 million without so much as a hiccup...here is where the real truth is on the table...Albeck just blew Field and the $12 million proposed budget out of the water and now Field knows that the picture is really at $20 million so trying to keep Cimino from going over a now phony $12 million is a moot point. The whining after the fact that Cimino went over budget looks pretty disingenuous when you know in truth UA through Albeck had said $20 million was no big deal and was fine before Cimino even shot a frame.
What I see as the truth in that is that at the end of the 70s approving a $20 million dollar picture was a big deal...a giant deal in fact...but Field's description of Albeck doing just that was like he asked him to validate his parking ticket. So, it seems likely that knowing Cimino was a guy that would run long and over that Albeck, Field, and Auerbach figured well if we are in for $20 million we are all in and will cover it if he runs over that.
And there it is in all its ugly glory...Albeck saw $20 million as no big deal at that moment in time.
So, if Field at that point had real concerns with Cimino and making the picture why did he not say:
"No, Andy, I don't think we should do this."
"If $20 million is no big deal to you Mr. Albeck what number would be because $20 million was just a wild guess on my part?"
"Do you really think a $20 million dollar western is a good idea at this time?"
Lots of things could have been said or done in that office right then and there but rather than setting any kind of reasonable number or goals the end result was "$20 million, so what's the problem?"
 

AdrianTurner

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I found Cimino to be a fairly positive, non-reflective sort of guy. Only once, at the lunch I had with him in Paris, did he seem fairly morose, though that might have been my fault in my chosen line of conversation that day. I do remember three things that might be of interest:
Cimino described his soundtrack as 'six-track discreet.' He said this when I asked him why the early sequence with Kristofferson walking by the train it was so hard to hear the dialogue.
For the main set at Wallace, Idaho, Cimino said he had done an incredible amount of research to make this town totally authentic. He said he even had extras playing tennis!
The Gatsby-esque epilogue, set on a yacht, was filmed in a British studio and was shot in 65mm.
[The very last shot of John Milius's Conan the Barbarian was shot by Freddie Young in 65mm, or so I was told.]
 

Moe Dickstein

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Reggie W said:
So the casting of Huppert to me is a non-issue.
The point is not about if he should have the ability to cast who he wants. The point is that he made a deal then totally ignored his pledge when it went against him.
1. UA had always offered major freedom in production, but that was after certain key terms had been agreed to, and one of these was always casting of the major parts.
2. Cimino should not have agreed to the deal in the first place if he knew he would never budge on Huppert.
The point is that it could have been an agreement about anything, it could have been an agreement that Cimino would only wear red shoes for the making of the film, and then he wore the cowboy boots. The point was that his actions showed that he had no respect for his partners and that was the warning sign that it would all go wrong.
It had nothing to do with Huppert herself, it had to do with his word and what it was worth.
 

Vincent_P

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The long version of HEAVEN'S GATE is now streaming in HD on Netflix. It seems to be the same HD transfer that has aired on MGM-HD and been available for rental on Comcast-On-Demand as well as other places.
Vincent
 

Nicholas Vargo

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Surprised no one has mentioned it yet (Unless of course if I missed it), but Heaven's Gate will play in a restored version at the Venice Film Festival. I think the rumors of a Criterion edition are closer than ever if you ask me.
 

Vincent_P

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Nicholas Vargo said:
Surprised no one has mentioned it yet (Unless of course if I missed it), but Heaven's Gate will play in a restored version at the Venice Film Festival. I think the rumors of a Criterion edition are closer than ever if you ask me.
From earlier in this thread:
Venice Film Festival: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/318845/is-criterion-working-on-a-blu-ray-of-heavens-gate/30#post_3953829
Criterion hint: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/318845/is-criterion-working-on-a-blu-ray-of-heavens-gate/60#post_3956457
Vincent
 

Nicholas Vargo

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Ladies and gentlemen, we have an announcement. Streets November 20th!
The Criterion Collection - Heaven's Gate
Love the fact that they went with the teaser poster artwork!
Extras will include interviews with Cimino, producer Joann Carelli, actor Kris Kristofferson, and composer David Mansfield, a video doc on The Johnson County War, and the film's Trailer and TV Spots.
No Final Cut documentary, but that's okay because this was supervised by Cimino to begin with. I'm pretty sure he didn't want it near this release sadly.
Still, I'm excited!
 

Moe Dickstein

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I had a feeling it would be November.
Looks great apart from the missing Final Cut doc. At least we can watch it on YouTube, and I completely understand it not being on there due to Cimino's involvement. I wonder how extensive the "audio interviews" are because apparantly they weren't enough for a commentary?
 

TravisR

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Moe Dickstein said:
I wonder how extensive the "audio interviews" are because apparantly they weren't enough for a commentary?
I'm sure there's some exceptions but it seems like Criterion has stopped doing commentaries on anything new they produce. I guess now that everyone does them, they want to go against the grain.
 

JohnS

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Vincent_P said:
The long version of HEAVEN'S GATE is now streaming in HD on Netflix. It seems to be the same HD transfer that has aired on MGM-HD and been available for rental on Comcast-On-Demand as well as other places.
Vincent
Thanks for the heads up. Going to check this out.
 

Vincent_P

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I like that it's being called an "illustrated interview". My guess is it will play out over behind-the-scenes photos from the making of the film, which would be pretty neat.
Vincent
 

Moe Dickstein

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TravisR said:
I'm sure there's some exceptions but it seems like Criterion has stopped doing commentaries on anything new they produce. I guess now that everyone does them, they want to go against the grain.
That's not true, just off the top of my head, Broadcast News, Being John Malkovich, Harold and Maude, all from this year all with commentaries.
 

JohnMor

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Originally Posted by Moe Dickstein /t/318845/is-criterion-working-on-a-blu-ray-of-heavens-gate/90#post_3962975
That's not true, just off the top of my head, Broadcast News, Being John Malkovich, Harold and Maude, all from this year all with commentaries.


Add to that Godzilla, The Gold Rush (which has a new commentary), Shallow Grave (which has 2 commentaries) and the upcoming Lonesome and The Game. I know there's others as well.
 

TravisR

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Like I said, there's exceptions. A more accurate way to say it is that a commentary used to be a staple of a Criterion disc (how many of their laserdiscs don't have a commentary?) but it's not guaranteed anymore.
 

Peter Neski

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ef50b288_A53150_medium.jpeg
 

Peter Neski

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"Very interesting little documentary on Vimeo about Michael Cimino and HEAVEN'S GATE: http://vimeo.com/27653792"
well I am glad this thing has no way of showing up on the Blue Ray
 

Moe Dickstein

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TravisR said:
Like I said, there's exceptions. A more accurate way to say it is that a commentary used to be a staple of a Criterion disc (how many of their laserdiscs don't have a commentary?) but it's not guaranteed anymore.
Lots of their LDs didn't have a commentary. I've got about 40 CC LDs and maybe half have a commentary.
All in all, its about the same ratio as it always was, commentary to none.
 

JamesNelson

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Moe Dickstein said:
Lots of their LDs didn't have a commentary. I've got about 40 CC LDs and maybe half have a commentary.
All in all, its about the same ratio as it always was, commentary to none.
Sometimes Criterion would issue a commentary on the CAV edition of a given title but not on the CLV version. In know that Invasion of the Body Snatchers was that way and at least a few others. Incentive enough, in many cases, for ponying up the extra $$ for the CAV editions.
I'm still hanging on to my LD collection specifically for some of those great Criterion commentaries. Howard Suber's commentaries on The Graduate and High Noon are like veritable film classes.
 

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