Is anyone here studying martial arts? (1 Viewer)

[Calvin_Su]

I'm aware that both Chuck Norris and Bruce Lee are/were accomplished martial artists. But when they step in front of the camera, they're entertainers. When UFC guys step in front of the camera and come up with their opening music and their funny closing moves and collect their share of the pay-per-view winnings, they're entertainers.

Well you seemed to be implying that Norris and Lee were entertainers, and therefore not real martial artists. They are both.

Yeah the UFC guys are entertainers who train in martial arts(or sports, whatever you wanna call them). Being an entertainer doesn't make you any less of a legit fighter.

 

[Dustin B]

Anybody remember the Flintstone's Judo Chop. Don't know why but this arguement brought that particular episode back into mind.

Fred and Barney could take anybody using any style with their Judo Chops and you know it :p)

 

[JoshF]

Yeah the UFC guys are entertainers who train in martial arts(or sports, whatever you wanna call them). Being an entertainer doesn't make you any less of a legit fighter.

I agree. I guess what I'm distinguishing is the difference between the humility and respect that someone may learn from a particular martial art and the showmanship that one may learn from another.

Once again, I respect all of you for training and believing in what you do. Completely. I just find the difference in approach and humility a bit astonishing.

 

[Henry Carmona]

You think in a real fight a boxer would be wearing his gloves?

Thank you Calvin, my point exactly.

 

[Calvin_Su]

Henry,

Thank you Calvin, my point exactly

So you're gonna be condescending, huh?

Your point is that boxers don't wear their gloves in real fights? Well, thanks for pointing out something so obvious.

Here is your quote:

"If i had to choose, id take a gloved punch to the head any day over a focused, hit to a pressure point that could possibly kill me."

You see whats wrong with this quote? Saying you would rather take a gloved punch to the head has nothing to do with how a real fight would go.

And I replied by saying that boxers don't wear gloves in a real fight. My point in saying that was that their punches will be faster and more devastating without the padded gloves.

By the way, pressure point fighting is one of the most impractical practices out there. In real fights, the bigger targets are the vulnerable ones. In many NHB events pressure points are totally legal but you never see them happen, not even when those Kung Fu guys enter.

How do you know these pressure point strikes will kill you? Have you ever killed someone that way? Have you ever seen someone killed that way? Have you even practiced them full force? These things may sound great in theory, but in reality I've never seen them pulled off.

 

[Henry Carmona]

Calvin, ive never hit anyone with a shovel, but im pretty sure it would hurt.

Your not making much sence, and im not trying to be condescending.

My point was that a boxer is not trained to hit a persons face with his/her bare fist.

They are not trained how to hit with anything other than the fist, and not trained on where to hit for the easiest way out of a fight, or to disable their attacker.

Also, not all pressure points are small and hard to hit, i thought you knew that.

There are a few martial arts that specifically stress conditioning of the fist, fingers, elbows, etc and have the mental and physical conditioning that no boxer could come close to.

Im sorry if you think boxing is the ultimate sport, or fighting style, but it isnt.

I am very open to suggestions, but i have never seen or been told about anything in boxing that i would incorporate as an additional techinique into a fighting style.

I would much rather take techniques and styles from Martial Arts, Kick Boxing, and wrestling.

 

[Calvin_Su]

I am very open to suggestions, but i have never seen or been told about anything in boxing that i would incorporate as an additional techinique into a fighting style.

Even the most dedicated kung fu practitioners speak highly of boxing and how it has helped their training. Frankly, I don't think you are being very open to other styles.



Notice I never judged a style negatively in this thread. I may have pointed out certain trends seen in some arts, but I never judged one art as a whole. You on the otherhand keep saying "no boxer can do this" or "boxing is this and that".

I would much rather take techniques and styles from Martial Arts, Kick Boxing, and wrestling.[/QUOTES]



Martial arts? You know what, thats a very broad term. Be more specific.



As for kick boxing, thats also broad. It could mean anything from San Shou to American Kickboxing to Muay Thai.

 

[Henry Carmona]

Cmon now Calvin. Now your calling me immature and i never once attacked you personally.

Oh well, i tried but this is my last post.

 

[JoshF]

Death touch pressure point strikes are entirely different, because they are based on theory. Obviously you would never test these out if you believed they could kill someone. And if you haven't tested them out, you never know what they can do.

Calvin, let's try to get this back on topic. You clearly have issues with traditional martial arts, and your above statement shows that you don't know a ton about them. We'll accept that you don't love traditional martial arts if you accept that some of us have issues with MMA, okay? Can we move on?

I'd love to hear from other board members who are training in a martial art. What are you studying, what level are you at, and how did you get involved?

I'm studying Shorei-Kan Goju Ryu Karate. I'm a Green Belt, 5 kyu. I started about 9 months ago and have been at it nonstop since. I love it - the training, conditioning, hard word, philosophy, and discipline have changed my world.

 

[Shayne Lebrun]

Even the most dedicated kung fu practitioners speak highly of boxing and how it has helped their training. Frankly, I don't think you are being very open to other styles.

Actually, I remember seeing an interview with a guy who actually managed to film a documentary at the Shaolin temple in China. He mentioned that he was strolling around one day, and he saw a young monk shadowboxing. So he wandered over and asked what the guy was doing. The monk said "Oh, I'm practicing western style boxing." The man asked why, and the answer was "Boxing, very good for speed, for foot work, and for ending fight quickly."

Most "martial arts" evolved to fight a very specific type of battle, against a very specific opponent. Styles like Jeet Kune Do try to generalize. The the simple fact of the matter is that the guy with the will to slam his fist into the other guy's face and stomach repeatedly is going to win.

And 2000 PSI? I'd hate to see the guy's fist after just one punch to the head. Remember, Newton's laws still apply. Equal and opposite reaction and all that.

 

[Calvin_Su]

Calvin, let's try to get this back on topic. You clearly have issues with traditional martial arts, and your above statement shows that you don't know a ton about them. We'll accept that you don't love traditional martial arts if you accept that some of us have issues with MMA, okay? Can we move on?

I haven't typed anything that shows I have issues with traditional arts. The fact that you say this shows that you don't know a ton about them. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu IS traditional, in that it is one of the oldest styles out there that was just modified by the Gracie family. Muay Thai is traditional, and has been used by the Thai in historical battles.

Maybe you think just because I have an issue with arts that don't incorporate full contact sparring, that I have an issue with traditional arts? Well, that wouldn't make sense at all since no where does it say traditional = no full contact sparring.

As for some of you having issues with MMA, well actually I was never gonna say anything like that. I thought you guys were more open minded than that.

As for my statement showing ignorance, elaborate, because I don't see anything wrong with it. I said that if you don't test out a move on a moving or resisting opponent, how are you gonna know if it works or not?

 

[Calvin_Su]

Cmon now Calvin. Now your calling me immature and i never once attacked you personally.

Oh well, i tried but this is my last post.

Henry, first of all I never called you immature. I said you weren't discussing this in a mature manner.

And if you think you weren't being annoying or condescending with that post, then you have issues.

 

[JoshF]

I haven't typed anything that shows I have issues with traditional arts. The fact that you say this shows that you don't know a ton about them. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu IS traditional, in that it is one of the oldest styles out there that was just modified by the Gracie family. Muay Thai is traditional, and has been used by the Thai in historical battles.

*Sigh*

Okay. You win. You know more than me.

Annnnyway. Is anyone here studying in NYC?

 

[Calvin_Su]

*Sigh*

Okay. You win. You know more than me.

Annnnyway.

I win? Well, I wasn't aware that this was a contest...

 

[JakeR]

Funny thread, still.
I find it interesting that some people here challenge the idea of competitive athletes somehow bypassing the "peace and harmony" message of martial arts and heading directly for "rude and arrogant" territory. Quite the contrary: many traditional artists believe in their practice to a fault, and when challenged on their beliefs, can get quite defensive, verbally and physically.
No one likes to be told their life's passion is essentially useless: it's somewhat sad to see traditional folks get submitted in seconds during the heyday of the Gracie challenge matches, only to demand another chance two minutes later. It's as if they can't possibly accept what's happening.
I've reported on MMA for years, and 99.999% of all fighters I've ever spoken to have never been anything less than humble and gracious. I think it has a lot to do with removing the instinctual ability to prove oneself to peers: these guys kick ass in a ring on a consistent basis. Their records speak for themselves. Why put on an air of arrogance? What do they have to prove? Nothing.
Personally, I'm of the mind that Karate, Kempo, and other "McDojo" arts are fine for improving self-esteem and getting in better shape, but it's dangerous for people to assume they will be able to handle themselves in an altercation by hitting "pressure points" or getting into "tiger stance." Part of me wants to see a greater understanding of practical technique, but I fear that grappling is too intimate a practice to ever catch on in the mainstream.

 

[JoshF]

Personally, I'm of the mind that Karate, Kempo, and other "McDojo" arts are fine for improving self-esteem and getting in better shape, but it's dangerous for people to assume they will be able to handle themselves in an altercation by hitting "pressure points" or getting into "tiger stance." Part of me wants to see a greater understanding of practical technique, but I fear that grappling is too intimate a practice to ever catch on in the mainstream.

Not everyone does it to get into a ring. Simple as that.

And do you honestly think karate and kempo are all about pressure points and tiger stance (it's called "cat" stance in most schools, btw)? Is your only karate experience with Tiger Schulman or some strip mall dojo (that's what my karate friends call McDojos, btw)?

In my dojo, we learn about joint locks, grappling, take downs, etc. in ADDITION to kata, bunkai, kiso, etc. in ADDITION to breathing exercises and meditative practices (sanchin) in ADDITION to the philosophy in ADDITION to physical strength and cardiovascular training in ADDITION to boxing, wrestling and BJJ floor techniques. I haven't been taught anything about pressure points yet - I probably won't for several more years. We all train regularly and almost no one misses a class.

My MMA friend has gone with me to class a couple times and each time he walks away with his tail between his legs, exhausted and beaten. He misses his MMA class all the time. He doesn't feel all that motivated, and he still doesn't feel like he can defend himself. His training has been anything but rigorous and he hasn't learned all that much (we started at the same time). He's thinking of switching just because he hasn't gotten much out of his training. That, of course, is totally up to him, and I don't criticize what he's doing. I just show him what I am learning.

Isolated examples? Sure. But I'm really tired of people assuming that karate is all about pressure points and ki. Assume what you will, learn what you choose from UFC events, but most of all, learn some honor and respect.

Can we move past the "my art can kick your art's butt" thing? It's really immature and hasn't demonstrated anything positive about any of us.

Oh... and Yankees rule, Burger King's fries are better than McDonalds', Macs are better than PCs, PS2 is better than Xbox, and Episode II was a great movie.

 

[Steve Schick]

Maybe you should come to Wudan and become a disciple.

 

[JoshF]

Maybe you should come to Wudan and become a disciple.

(In voice of Lumbergh from Office Space): Yeeeahh. Um, that'd be grreeeeaattt.

 

[Garrett Lundy]

Um... I came into this arguement late. Whats the question? Oh, Martial Art(s) we study. Ok.
Anyway. I study Tae Kwan Do, Combat Hapkido (Learn more at http://www.ichf.com/ichfmain.htm), and a little Iaido (which isn't self-defensive, or even practical, I just enjoy it).
For you people who keep track: In the event of a "real" fight (in the fantasy-land combat style where opponents are unarmed and fighting one-on-one, Ha!) I wouldn't use any style of martial art. A style was developed by one man (usually many years before you were born)to work in a paticular situation, or type of situation. No one style could ever account for every possible possibility (this is why there is more than one style of MA, If one were "best" natural selection would have weeded-out the others in the last 5,000 years or so). So in a fight, I'd do anything and everything I could to either win or escape. And the first thing I'd do is look for a makeshift weapon to bash, stab, or shoot my opponent with.
My opinions so far: Yes, boxing is a Martial art. No, I don't believe any regulated tournament can compare with actual combat (Even the pay-per-view ones). And Yes, I have heard "Tiger-Stance" used seriously by higher-ranking people. I've also heard cat-stance, waiting-front-stance, and many , many other terms for the same thing.

 

[Shayne Lebrun]

So in a fight, I'd do anything and everything I could to either win or escape. And the first thing I'd do is look for a makeshift weapon to bash, stab, or shoot my opponent with

Hear, hear. Reminds me of an article I once read about such things.

"In a real fight, whoever lands the first good punch, wins. Why? The first good punch stuns your opponent long enough for you to land the second. The second good punch puts your opponent on the ground. Then the kicking starts.

You don't get up from the kicking."