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iPhone user goes to the Samsung Galaxy S3 (1 Viewer)

RobertR

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It's incomprehensible to me that someone could argue that being able to customize your phone so that it's more to your liking is somehow a "negative".
 

Sam Posten

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Right, and that's because you continue to look at it from the alpha geek self centered 'what I want' perspective instead of what has been Apples message for 10+ years: we are going to make the best experience for the average user even if that makes things harder for the leading edge. We've seen this since like 2005 when Apple started making it harder for OSX launchers like Quicksilver to get deep OS access. Again, if you want to fight things like that you are going to continually be disappointed.
Apple says 'be reasonable, do it my way' when others will give you 1000 ways to do it your way. Both options are viable but they have trade offs. Wanting one to work the other way isn't going to happen.
 

DaveF

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RobertR said:
It's incomprehensible to me that someone could argue that being able to customize your phone so that it's more to your liking is somehow a "negative".
I'm looking into replacing my tivos with an HTPC. If the main reasons I find for an HTPC are 'it lets me spend 30 min every night twiddling fiddly bits", then it's not a solution for me. If the main reasons are "it works better, easier, faster with new features" I'm interested.
10 years ago, I loved having Windows all customized to my tastes with my Starcraft backgrounds and sounds and cursors and... Now, I'm happy to run a pretty bland, Uncustomized OS X. My needs have changed. I'm trying to filter expert advice here into my current tastes :)
That's the difference: Tweaking is no longer an end unto itself, for me.
 

Ronald Epstein

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Quote:
[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)]Apple says 'be reasonable, do it my way' when other[/COLOR]s will give you 1000 ways to do it your way. Both options are viable but they have trade offs. Wanting one to work the other way isn't going to happen.


Sam,

This is 100% correct.

Each phone has their trade-offs. There have been multiple
times that I have been frustrated with some of the lackings
of the Android OS.

No argument that iOS seems more tightly integrated with
better email, better designed apps and more seamless integration
with any other Apple product.

That being said, iOS does still feel antiquated, as Hanson
pointed out. I know that contradicts what I just wrote, but the
biggest drawback to iOS, as you pointed out, is the ability to
do anything outside of the Apple ecosystem.

I agree with something you have said long ago, Sam...

Apple will continue to do what they do because there are
those that prefer to have a quality phone that one needs not
have to have a manual to use. The phones are simple and
made for anyone that doesn't need to change anything on it.
 

Hanson

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The first time I went on the internet, I installed AOL from one of those ubiquitous CDs since my work laptop was the first one to have a) a modem and b) Windows 95. I wanted more info on the Nintendo Ultra 64, which had just been unveiled at the Tokyo Space World show and I didn't want to wait another month or two before the gaming mags finally reported on it. That month, I got hit with a $70 overage. The first thing I did after that was to look for an unlimited internet provider. Turned out Netcom offered unlimited bandwidth for $20/mo. The trade off was that you had to set up your own Windows Networking and modem settings and create a shortcut manually. Also, you had access to the internet proper but not the AOL curated stuff, you had to find your own email program and the right POP3 settings, and you had to use your own web browser to access the internet (this is when Netscape Navigator was the browser everyone used).

I don't think 90% of the people who used AOL could ever set up their computer for Netcom. I could do it in my sleep now, but back then the modem properties screen was daunting the first time I used it.Once I got on Netcom, I realized all of the things I could do on the internet and also discovered the Usenet. You simply could not get Usenet on AOL, and even then, you needed to install a News Agent just to navigate it.

I used Netcom for years as most people I knew snuggled into the comforting arms of AOL. Broadband eventually killed AOL, but when internet access was primarily a modem based one, AOL's hand holding and training wheels made it popular even though it was restrictive. Most users didn't want to or even knew about the world outside of their walled garden. They just wanted to check their emails and look at news.

Eventually, the internet grew up. And accessing the internet via broadband became much simpler. AOL became a quaint snapshot of yesteryear even though some people still hung onto it. My sister uses her AOL.com address as her email to this day. They're still out there.

As more people start understanding technology and interfaces and as the older generation gives way to the younger, walled garden systems become a thing of the past. No one needs training wheels forever. Even if the training wheels are really, really well designed. They're still training wheels.
 

RobertR

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Sam Posten said:
Right, and that's because you continue to look at it from the 'what I want' perspective
I stripped out your pointless adjectives. Everyone wants a product that gives him what he wants. It makes no sense whatsoever to say that it's somehow "bad" for a product to make it easier to achieve exactly that.
Apple says 'be reasonable, do it my way'
You continue to look at it from the "Apple gives ME exactly what I want, therefore whatever Apple dictates is reasonable" perspective. Most people are choosing not to believe that whatever Apple chooses must be reasonable.
Both options are viable but they have trade offs.
That implies that having choices has negatives. I disagree.
Wanting one to work the other way isn't going to happen.
Why would I want Apple's attitude to change, as I long as I'm free to make the alternate choice (silly legal maneuvering notwithstanding)?
 

Sam Posten

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Hanson said:
As more people start understanding technology and interfaces and as the older generation gives way to the younger, walled garden systems become a thing of the past. No one needs training wheels forever. Even if the training wheels are really, really well designed. They're still training wheels.
I look at it from 180 degrees differently.
As people start to understand that the world of the internet doesn't have to have the crappy interfaces that are built by engineers for engineers they start to take user experience, security and consistency more seriously. And that bugs the hell out of the engineers, power users and early adopters because to get those things right you have to start at the fundamental base of what the OS does and does not allow. You can see the same thing Apple has done in the walled gardens of the consoles you reference.
You simply can't have it both ways. At least nobody has done so yet. We're starting to see it happen in other products, like cars. The moaning that enthusiasts will bring to bear in that community will make the frustration with today's walled garden consoles look like noise.
 

Sam Posten

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RobertR said:
You continue to look at it from the "Apple gives ME exactly what I want, therefore whatever Apple dictates is reasonable" perspective. Most people are choosing not to believe that whatever Apple chooses must be reasonable.
That implies that having choices has negatives. I disagree.
Why would I want Apple's attitude to change, as I long as I'm free to make the alternate choice (silly legal maneuvering notwithstanding)?
Where we disagree is in the term "most people".
The question becomes is one of us suffering from False Consensus?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False-consensus_effect
Hopefully it's not Dunning-Kruger =)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
The why would I want apple to change part is an interesting question tho. More tech is moving to the Apple Model (eg: Vita, Fire, Consoles) then are opening up. Will Android move to lock more things down? Will some privileges apps get today no longer be viable in the future? What then?
 

Hanson

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Jesus Sam, I can't have a serious conversation about this subject if you keep bringing up the security boogedyman. Android (the non-forked Google kind) is not Windows XP. Not even close. You can go exploit for exploit, infection for infection between iOS and Android. We've discussed this already and you still bring it up like a broken record.

The interface in Android has improved greatly, designed by Mathias Duarte, a design guy, not an engineer. It's getting around in the mainstream -- Android 4.0+ is as good a user experience as iOS. I'm just as comfortable handing out an ICS device to an end user as I would an iPhone. I did hesitate more with Gingerbread, but in reality, it probably wasn't worth my concern. It's really not difficult to use, and because of shortcuts and widgets, it's actually simpler in many ways.

Android greatest weakness is the lack of coherent marketing. Samsung wants to market its own S-Voice, not Google Voice Search. HTC wants to market its music app with Beats Audio, not Google Music. LG wants to market whatever the hell distinguishing feature and not Maps. This is the core problem with Android, not Android itself.
 

RobertR

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Sam Posten said:
Where we disagree is in the term "most people".
Given that Android has a 68% share of the global smartphone market to Apple's 17%, the "most people" term is inescapable.
 

Hanson

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Good point -- the US lags behind the rest of the world in Android adoption (and conversely, skews more towards the iPhone that everyone else). Android market share in Spain is at a whopping 84%. Even in the US, there are two Android owners for every iPhone owner. And this is at a time where iPhones are available on the three largest carriers and a bunch of smaller ones, so it's not an issue of availability. And while Android does have a base of free on contract phones, there are likely more flagship phones (>$198 on contract) than budget ones. So yes, people are picking Android over iPhone based on factors not related to carrier availability or price, which means Sam's "most people" aren't really "most people".
 

Sam Posten

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Hanson said:
Jesus Sam, I can't have a serious conversation about this subject if you keep bringing up the security boogedyman. Android (the non-forked Google kind) is not Windows XP. Not even close. You can go exploit for exploit, infection for infection between iOS and Android. We've discussed this already and you still bring it up like a broken record.
The interface in Android has improved greatly, designed by Mathias Duarte, a design guy, not an engineer. It's getting around in the mainstream -- Android 4.0+ is as good a user experience as iOS.    
I touched a nerve here that wasn't intended Hanson, I am doing my best to avoid inflammatory posts and keep it light (ala Dunning-Kruger above) in Ron's thread. I'm specifically talking about Sandboxing here and how that is impacting both mobile and desktop OSs and not any kind of exploits. We are still in the first inning on that one, and as privileges get added to this tech we'll see how things roll.
I'm also moderately happy with stock Jelly Bean's look. But I've also seen awful (to me!) skins and mods too. That was the essence of my reply to Dave. There is a continuum between consistency and flexibility and personalization and Apple is firmly to the left. I get why people want it more to the right than what Apple is allowing but I remain skeptical that that will bend too much any time soon. That was the first time in a few weeks where I thought I could add something to the conversation without poking eyes, and it was taken as eye poking anyway... Can't win.
 

Sam Posten

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Hanson said:
So yes, people are picking Android over iPhone based on factors not related to carrier availability or price, which means Sam's "most people" aren't really "most people". 
This is the essence of where we disagree tho I don't have specific data to back up my belief and don't think it would be helpful to continue this conversation anyway. I'll bow out here and you can continue to pick on me for not fighting it.
 

DaveF

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Ronald Epstein said:
Sam,
This is 100% correct.
Each phone has their trade-offs.  There have been multiple
times that I have been frustrated with some of the lackings 
of the Android OS.  
No argument that iOS seems more tightly integrated with 
better email, better designed apps and more seamless integration
with any other Apple product.
That being said, iOS does still feel antiquated, as Hanson 
pointed out.  I know that contradicts what I just wrote, but the
biggest drawback to iOS, as you pointed out, is the ability to 
do anything outside of the Apple ecosystem.
I agree with something you have said long ago, Sam...
Apple will continue to do what they do because there are
those that prefer to have a quality phone that one needs not
have to have a manual to use.  The phones are simple and
made for anyone that doesn't need to change anything on it.
thanks for the follow up (and to Sam) on my question of motivations.
I went to Apple and played with the iPhone 5 and then to AT&T and played with the GS3 and Note.
I see how the GS3 would be appealing to people, but to me it was too big. The extra screen space is nice to see more at once. But as a phone, a device that I carry in my pocket, that goes onto a car dash mount, as something to hold in m hand while walking on vacation....I think it's too large for my tastes. Even the iPhone 5 was not immediately comfortable in hand after two years of the iPhone 4.
I also see that switching to Android would be a big change. Simply flip through the main screens, left me confused. There were maybe six screens, two of which wre empty, and two or three other different styles. And looking for apps to try...I finally realized there was no Chrome or Browswr or Safari; instead there's an "Internet" app.
So that's me being a dog, barking at the living room after someone moved the furniture around :)
It was fast, blazing 4G, affordable, has a huge, vibrant screen. I'd tell me dad to get it. He's already got a droid phone, and some,thi like the GS3 could be a good upgrade to him.
 

ManW_TheUncool

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I think the biggest drawback for me might still be the poor battery life. Which affordable, bigger battery "upgrade" would you recommend?

I don't mind the extra bulk (w/in reason) -- in fact, I prefer something a little heftier anyway -- especially as a trade-off for substantially better battery life. I'd want something to yield 2-plus full days of normal usage. 1 day for a new battery just seems much too short, especially for my wife me thinks.

_Man_
 

Hanson

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The GS3 has good battery life. But as with any device, certain features and apps will cause it to drain a lot faster.

The number one factor is going to be how good your wireless signal is. Because the worse your signal quality, the more the device needs to boost the antenna for any data exchange, which means more battery drain. And since this increases the amount of time it take to download an update or transmit a file, it will work harder for longer. The number one battery killer is poor 3G/4G reception. Everything other battery issue is exacerbated by bad reception.

Number two on the list are how frequent your device needs to go online. If you use Activesync to push work email, be prepared to halve your battery life. This is not an Android specific problem -- one of my users added her work activesync account to her iPhone 4S while waiting for her BB to be warranty replaced. Originally, she thought she might ditch the BB altogether and converge everything on one device. After a few days of terrible battery life, she went back to two devices. If you have email that polls for new messages in frequent intervals like every minute, it will kill your battery. Couple this with bad reception and you can watch your battery level tick down.

Number three are widgets and programs that require constant data updates. Throw in streaming services while we're at it. Once again, bad reception will make matters worse for your battery.

If you're in a good data coverage area with good signal strength and don't use push email or short polling times, you can get through a good day. Two day sis unlikely unless you get the RAZR Maxx from Verizon or the Note 2.
 

TonyD

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After four weeks I'm finding that the Gs3 does eerythng that the iphone did for me.
Only thing is the Apple store is missing now for me.
I Olé'd being able to go in there and get a little guidence on things that I didn't understand.
Wish there was an Android Store.
 

Hanson

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I believe Tony is referring to a Genius Bar setup where he could go in and pick the brains of the staff about Android matters.
 

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