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I'm so disappointed in DVD quality ...

Discussion in 'DVD' started by Colton, Jun 16, 2004.

  1. Colton

    Colton Well-Known Member

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    Recently, I've noticed some horrible encoding from new original DVDs. My wife and I rented Master & Commander - and whenever there was fog - you can see the pixelation of the mist within the fog. Kinda looked as if the picture was converted to 256 colors. Very noticeable. Now I seem to find more and more pixelation in DVD movies than before during dark or smoke/foggy scenes. Again, these are from original DVD discs - not backups.

    - Colton
     
    andySu likes this.
  2. Colton

    Colton Well-Known Member

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    Recently, I've noticed some horrible encoding from new original DVDs. My wife and I rented Master & Commander - and whenever there was fog - you can see the pixelation of the mist within the fog. Kinda looked as if the picture was converted to 256 colors. Very noticeable. Now I seem to find more and more pixelation in DVD movies than before during dark or smoke/foggy scenes. Again, these are from original DVD discs - not backups.

    - Colton
     
  3. Brian Kidd

    Brian Kidd Well-Known Member

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    MPEG2 is not very good at handling foggy/smoky scenes. It's just a shortcoming of the codec. Not much to be done about it.
     
  4. Brian Kidd

    Brian Kidd Well-Known Member

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    MPEG2 is not very good at handling foggy/smoky scenes. It's just a shortcoming of the codec. Not much to be done about it.
     
  5. Doug_L

    Doug_L Well-Known Member

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    Colton, what kind of a set-up are you using? Can you specify your DVD player, viewing device, and how they are connected?

    Not being familiar with this disc in particular, I'm wondering if it could be an issue with your eqiupment.

    Just a thought.
     
  6. Doug_L

    Doug_L Well-Known Member

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    Colton, what kind of a set-up are you using? Can you specify your DVD player, viewing device, and how they are connected?

    Not being familiar with this disc in particular, I'm wondering if it could be an issue with your eqiupment.

    Just a thought.
     
  7. JonZ

    JonZ Well-Known Member

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    Ive never had a problem like this with my Sony or Pioneer players.

    Not with smoke,fog,water,fire,anything.
     
  8. JonZ

    JonZ Well-Known Member

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    Ive never had a problem like this with my Sony or Pioneer players.

    Not with smoke,fog,water,fire,anything.
     
  9. Scott Kimball

    Scott Kimball Well-Known Member

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    Is your display properly calibrated?

    Blocking artifacts are much more visible on displays with incorrect brightness / contrast settings.

    -Scott
     
  10. Scott Kimball

    Scott Kimball Well-Known Member

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    Is your display properly calibrated?

    Blocking artifacts are much more visible on displays with incorrect brightness / contrast settings.

    -Scott
     
  11. Dennis Pagoulatos

    Dennis Pagoulatos Well-Known Member

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    It's true that an improperly calibrated display will show compression artifacts more prominently, but lets not forget that M&C is a lousy, soft, muddy transfer, so even on a properly calibrated display...like say an 83" front projection screen, artifacting is quite apparent in the scenes he mentions.

    -Dennis
     
  12. Dennis Pagoulatos

    Dennis Pagoulatos Well-Known Member

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    It's true that an improperly calibrated display will show compression artifacts more prominently, but lets not forget that M&C is a lousy, soft, muddy transfer, so even on a properly calibrated display...like say an 83" front projection screen, artifacting is quite apparent in the scenes he mentions.

    -Dennis
     
  13. Jeff

    Jeff Well-Known Member

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    I don't see how an HT system that is not properly setup can reveal pixilation. I mean if it's there, it's there. If you're implying that his TV needs to be calibrated in order to not see it, then basically what you're saying is that there is a way to mask the pixilation.

    I haven't seen Master & Commander but I will say Colton & Brian are correct. If a DVD is not properly authored or if there is too much on it by way of extras or DTS, then smoky or foggy scenes can reveal compression artifacts and thus look really bad in some cases.

    I'll never forget when I first rented the DVD Finding Forrester. That was the day that I discovered the smoky/foggy problem. This movie has smoky scenes throughout, which essentially packs a lot more information in to the DVD. Not only was there pixilation in the smoky scenes but the whole movie was riddled with it. I could see these gradient patterns on the walls and on the furniture, etc. I might not have noticed this if it wasn't for the fact that I went up near my TV to get something. That's when I saw it. But then I was so tuned in to it, I could see it from my viewing position. At the time, I had a Panasonic RV-80 DVD player. This was considered the best non progressive player on the market and I thought something went wrong with it. I borrowed a DVD player from a friend and even "temporarily" bought one from a store. Anyway, both those players revealed the same thing, so that was my first lesson in to the limitations of MPEG 2.

    It really depends on the display as well. My Sony Wega is very revealing but some RPTV's, for example just don't show the level of detail needed to see these flaws. I don't know what it would look like on LCD or Plasma.

    In any case, whether you see it or not, it's there in many DVD's. Star Trek First Contact is a DVD that has no foggy/smoky scenes but is riddled with compression artifacts. All you have to do is FF at a slow speed and you can see the compression artifacts all over the screen.


    Jeff
     
  14. Jeff

    Jeff Well-Known Member

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    I don't see how an HT system that is not properly setup can reveal pixilation. I mean if it's there, it's there. If you're implying that his TV needs to be calibrated in order to not see it, then basically what you're saying is that there is a way to mask the pixilation.

    I haven't seen Master & Commander but I will say Colton & Brian are correct. If a DVD is not properly authored or if there is too much on it by way of extras or DTS, then smoky or foggy scenes can reveal compression artifacts and thus look really bad in some cases.

    I'll never forget when I first rented the DVD Finding Forrester. That was the day that I discovered the smoky/foggy problem. This movie has smoky scenes throughout, which essentially packs a lot more information in to the DVD. Not only was there pixilation in the smoky scenes but the whole movie was riddled with it. I could see these gradient patterns on the walls and on the furniture, etc. I might not have noticed this if it wasn't for the fact that I went up near my TV to get something. That's when I saw it. But then I was so tuned in to it, I could see it from my viewing position. At the time, I had a Panasonic RV-80 DVD player. This was considered the best non progressive player on the market and I thought something went wrong with it. I borrowed a DVD player from a friend and even "temporarily" bought one from a store. Anyway, both those players revealed the same thing, so that was my first lesson in to the limitations of MPEG 2.

    It really depends on the display as well. My Sony Wega is very revealing but some RPTV's, for example just don't show the level of detail needed to see these flaws. I don't know what it would look like on LCD or Plasma.

    In any case, whether you see it or not, it's there in many DVD's. Star Trek First Contact is a DVD that has no foggy/smoky scenes but is riddled with compression artifacts. All you have to do is FF at a slow speed and you can see the compression artifacts all over the screen.


    Jeff
     
  15. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Administrator
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    I have seen M&C and seen no artifacts.

    I have a pretty decent player (Pana 951) so
    I don't tend to see these sort of abnormalties.

    As others have said, a lot of what you see is
    based on your TV display and type of DVD player
    you are using.
     
  16. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Administrator
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    I have seen M&C and seen no artifacts.

    I have a pretty decent player (Pana 951) so
    I don't tend to see these sort of abnormalties.

    As others have said, a lot of what you see is
    based on your TV display and type of DVD player
    you are using.
     
  17. Jeff

    Jeff Well-Known Member

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    Ron, I don't think there are any DVD players that will induce artifacting/pixilation. Even the cheapest one shouldn't do that. I bet people would say there are no artifacts on Finding Forrester or ST: First Contact, but they are there. [​IMG]


    Jeff
     
  18. Jeff

    Jeff Well-Known Member

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    Ron, I don't think there are any DVD players that will induce artifacting/pixilation. Even the cheapest one shouldn't do that. I bet people would say there are no artifacts on Finding Forrester or ST: First Contact, but they are there. [​IMG]


    Jeff
     
  19. Nils Luehrmann

    Nils Luehrmann Well-Known Member

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    Not only can players do this, but so can scalers, interpolators, displays, and cables.

    I saw very little artificial artifacting, and no pixilation with my copy of M&C on my 96" DLP FP system with DCDi processing (v.2222) and average quality DVD player (Panny DV-C603) over component DIY cable.

    While there are certainly plenty of examples of below average quality DVD presentations with very poor transfers, overall I have found the quality of recent DVDs to be far greater than in past years and in fact I am very impressed how much DVD producers are pushing the envelope of any otherwise archaic and limited compression standard.
     
  20. Nils Luehrmann

    Nils Luehrmann Well-Known Member

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    Not only can players do this, but so can scalers, interpolators, displays, and cables.

    I saw very little artificial artifacting, and no pixilation with my copy of M&C on my 96" DLP FP system with DCDi processing (v.2222) and average quality DVD player (Panny DV-C603) over component DIY cable.

    While there are certainly plenty of examples of below average quality DVD presentations with very poor transfers, overall I have found the quality of recent DVDs to be far greater than in past years and in fact I am very impressed how much DVD producers are pushing the envelope of any otherwise archaic and limited compression standard.
     

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