I Loathe Ticket Brokers - They Are The Scum Of The Earth (1 Viewer)

[Win Joy Jr]

As far as getting tickets into the hands of the "real fans"...

During the '99 - '00 Reunion tour, Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band sold the first 17 rows (nicknamed the jailbait section) via phones only, with a 2 ticket limit. They were also held at will-call until the evening of the show. You have to show up with your ID and the credit card that placed the order. You got your tickets and had to go directly inside. Worked rather well, as we got "Jail Baits" for the Meadowlands in '99...

Bruce also has an unofficial upgrade policy in place. Shortly after the gates open, the "Men in Black" wander around the worst seats in the venue, and "upgrade" fans sitting there into the first 2 rows. Had it happen to me at MCI in '99...

For the '03 The Rising Tour, Bruce put into place a General Admission "Pit" at the front to the stage. And to combat scalpers, the "drop" tickets the day of the show, undercutting the scalpers. I got "Pit" tickets the day of the FedEx Field show in DC. Up until 1:40 that afternoon, I was not going to the show. I ended up 10 feet from "The Boss"...

During the '02 "Barnstorming" leg of The Rising Tour, the entire floor of the arena's were GA, and the first 300 fans in line got into "The Pit". We were the last ones in "The Pit" during the MCI Center stop in DC in '02.

As one side story, back in '85 during the height of "Boss Mania", I had won tickets from a local radio station for the RFK stop in DC. I already had tickets for the show, so we get to the stadium and started to walk around. I saw 2 girls talking to a scalper about buying tickets in the upper level. I walked up and said "Here you go, lower level. Enjoy the show". Needless to say, the scalper wanted to break my neck.

 

[LDfan]

The only reason why ticket scalping is illegal is because the gov't doesn't get their cut from the sale. Lawmakers may say crap like the end-consumer is getting ripped off but that isn't true. Nobody is forcing a consumer to purchase a ticket. If both the seller and consumer agree on the price, no matter how high it is than there are no victims.

Jeff

 

[MarkHastings]

If the tickets were priced according to what they were actually worth, there would be no line or any need to get up early--as long as you were willing to pay market rates. The only reason the tickets are difficult to get is that demand far outpaces supply, which by definition means that they are undervalued. This artificial imbalance could be easily remedied by sharply raising the face value of the tickets, thereby bringing demand in line with supply. However, I doubt that would make many people happy.

This is quite true, but here are my thoughts on why ticket prcies are low:

I believe the REAL money making aspect for these places is in the concessions and T-Shirt sales. These theaters keep the price of the tickets low so that they can fill the seats. The more people, the more moeny they'll make on food and beer. I hardly think that ticket sales are what keeps these places afloat. They use the cheap ticket prices to get the people in the door so they can spend more money.

IMO, The ticket brokers and scalpers are the ones who are making it increasingly difficult for these theaters (or arenas) to make as much money as they possibly can. I mean, if your average fan has to pay $300 a ticket, they may not have enough money to buy food and beer so the arena only makes the original price of the ticket (for example $35) from that person (i.e. the scalper makes the other $265), whereas if the person was allowed to buy that $35 ticket for $35, they would be more inclined to buy beer and food, thus giving the arena more profit and the ability to stay in business or bring in better acts (i.e. high paying acts).

 

[JamieD]

What, me worry?

 

[Steven K]

One of the many reasons I not fond of it.

REMOVE BY POSTER :rolleyes

Either way you go - for many events, even if ALL the tickets were sold directly to people who planned to attend the event, there would still be people who wouldn't be able to go, because the number of available tickets is smaller than the number of people wanting to attend. There is a demand, and it is up to each individual person to decide whether or not they are willing to pay the cost. Plain and simple. If you aren't willing to pay the ticket price, don't... stay home and watch the game.

Do I like paying $150 for a ticket? No. In my eyes, is the benefit of attending this event worth $150? Yes. Simple question, simple answer, simple resolution.

 

[JamieD]

...because things were so much better in the USSR during the Communist reign...

Since I shouldn't have posted anything in the first place, since it's sort of political, I've removed what I said. You can take your rolling eyes and put them somewhere interesting. Have a nice day.

 

[Steven K]

You can take your rolling eyes and put them somewhere interesting

:rolleyes
:rolleyes
:rolleyes
:rolleyes

 

[Chris Lockwood]

> Even if scalping isn’t illegal, it’s unethical.

There's nothing unethical about a buyer & seller agreeing on a price. Scalpers can only get high prices for tickets if someone is willing to pay that much.

Anyone could have gotten in line before those scalpers did, as the first post in this thread shows.

People are willing to pay $500 to see Chris Rock? Or $75, for that matter? Unbelievable. (And I really like the guy, but geez you can watch his comedy specials for free or rent the DVD.)

 

[Max Leung]

On principle, I think scalping should be allowed. However, I don't like it when/if ticket sellers reserve tickets in advance, such that only scalpers have access to the best seats, for example. For all we know right now, there is a large coalition of scalpers (something like a Scalper's Consortium) who have made a deal with the seller (aka TicketMaster) to hold tickets in advance for them.

I'd rather that ticket sellers be obligated (by law or by self-regulation) to give full disclosure of their selling practices.

 

[Jonathan Burk]

As has already been discussed, scalping is an economics issue. Supply and Demand. I'm not sure why people see it as a "moral" issue.

On the same note, I'm upset that I can't live on the beach in a 3000 square foot house. The real estate agents and home builders are scalping the houses for way more than I want to pay. And I'm pretty sure that they bought or built the houses for less than they're selling them. I'm hoping the government will step in and take action. Then everyone can have a 3000 square foot house on the beach, not just the rich people.

I also recently discovered that the Infinity dealer in the valley is selling G30's for way more than he bought them for. I couldn't believe it. I mean, he didn't build the car. He just bought it for a less expensive price, and now he's trying to scalp it! I think there's even collusion with the factory, since the factory won't sell me a car directly. I have to go to the dealer.

I totally agree with the steps taken by performers to help fans get a better concert experience. Since it's their product, they should have the right to determine the "price" they are willing to attach to it. They could pay free concerts in the park for all I care. Or they could charge $10,000/ seat. There are many music groups I would pay $1 to see. Not so many I would pay $1000 to see. But why is that their fault, or the fault of someone who tries to balance the market by scalping?

 

[MikeDeVincenzo]

Jonathan

So if there's a blackout and Home Depot jacks the price of D batteries up to $99.99 per 4 pack to balance the market, there's no harm, no foul there? Do you think laws that prohibit price gouging should be eliminated to allow the laws of supply and demand to operate freely and unfettered in situations like this?

The laws of supply and demand don't operate in a vaccuum outside of the human experience. There is a moral dimension here that cannot be overlooked.

 

[MarkHastings]

I have to agree with Mike as well.

Anyone could have gotten in line before those scalpers did, as the first post in this thread shows.

One of the funniest things to see is the Toy-R-Us stores right before they open. You will almost always see a big fat guy (just like the Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons) waiting for the doors to open. This guy would be there practically every morning trying to get the "Hot" new toys that would be put on the shelves before the store opened. This was at the time when the Star Wars figures were popular and there would always be the one rare figure that was impossible to find. My friend wanted this rare figure as well and would go to the store early as well to get the figure before anyone else would. He used to tell me how these comic book store owners would line up at the door and when they would open the store, these guys (as fat as they were) would run through the store practically tackling each other to get the rare toys and sell them in their stores for 4 times the price they paid :rolleyes

So as far as the morality of scalpers, why do they get to decide the fate of these tickets? Why not leave them at the box office for the people who really want them?

I always thought they should do some sort of ID thing with the tickets where the ticket was personalized for you and only you could use the ticket, this way if a scalper bought 100 tickets, only he'd be able to use them

 

[Steven K]

Mark and Mike,

You are trying to compare items that most people consider necessities (batteries and gasoline) to luxury items such as tickets to sporting events.

Come on, now...

 

[MikeDeVincenzo]

Steven

Then I take it you admit that there are some situations where the free market shouldn't be allowed to operate without restraint, but you believe the sale of tickets isn't one of them?

Why should the sale of tickets not be protected against price gouging?

Why should the law turn a blind eye to the common interest of the many (the ticket buying public) to serve the needs of the few (the scalpers)?

This is why many states have passed ticket scalping laws, Steven. The free market is not the be-all and end-all to human existence. It provides many benefits, but it is not a magic bullet that provides a perfect framework for a society to operate under, and there are times when it needs to be regulated for the sake of creating a more just society. Situations will arise when the free market creates more injustice than justice, and I firmly believe the exploitation of a very limited number of tickets for public events is one of them. And many states stand with me here.

 

[MarkHastings]

You are trying to compare items that most people consider necessities (batteries and gasoline) to luxury items such as tickets to sporting events.

Fair enough. I'm also willing to spend $50-$60 for DVD's that are "Bare Bones" - Does that make it fair to raise the prices?

 

[Lew Crippen]

. My friend wanted this rare figure as well and would go to the store early as well to get the figure before anyone else would. He used to tell me how these comic book store owners would line up at the door and when they would open the store, these guys (as fat as they were) would run through the store practically tackling each other to get the rare toys and sell them in their stores for 4 times the price they paid

Point taken Mark, but where does the real fault lie? For me, it is the producers of the toys, who artificially create a scarcity in the market, causing the prices to rise. True, they get nothing out of it directly, but the buzz surrounding this causes demand to go up for the non-scarce items.

And if you really wish to assign blame, it would have been easy for Lucas and company to sign a deal with the toy companies that did not allow them to create artificial scarcity.

 

[Carl Johnson]

If there was money to be made I wouldn't have a moral problem with being the scalper and if paying several times face value was the only way that I could get that concert ticket I really wanted I would pay it. I guess that puts me on the free market team.

 

[Steven K]

Then I take it you admit that there are some situations where the free market shouldn't be allowed to operate without restraint, but you believe the sale of tickets isn't one of them?

Did I ever state an opinion to the contrary?

Of course there are situations where PURE capitalism is not the best solution... but, no, I do not think that the "scalping" of tickets is one of those situations.

If public opinion is so dead-set against the practice of scalping, why are the scalping laws so rarely enforced? Why do people purchase tickets from scalpers, in large numbers?

And scalping laws do not exist for the reason you state above - they exist because the government cannot collect taxes on the surplus price paid for the ticket. If a ticket has a face of $20, and someone scalps it for $100, $80 have now passed through someone's hands without being taxed.

 

[Jonathan Burk]

Fair enough. I'm also willing to spend $50-$60 for DVD's that are "Bare Bones" - Does that make it fair to raise the prices?

What do you mean "fair"? Where can I learn more about what is "fair" when it comes to DVD pricing? If you were setting the prices for a store, or a studio, what would you use to determine what is "fair"? Your question also seems silly to one who used to spend more than $60 for barebones laserdiscs. There are many factors that go into deciding the price you pay for a DVD (or anything, for that matter), but I can't imagine "fairness" being one of them. What about movie tickets? Is there a "fair" price for movie tickets? There is a nice theater in town that charges $14 for movie tickets. I'd like to go there, but I don't want to spend $14 for a movie ticket. Is this fair? Should the government take action?

In the end, I think the tension over scalping involves the extreme emotional connection people can have to sports teams and music performers. When we feel so passionately about something, it's easy to feel a right to experience a championship game, or a concert, as if the event itself isn't complete without our presence.

I will add that I do support government intervention in areas that can be manipulated. If a person or company or industry is able to manipulate the system so it tilts out of whack into their favor, then the government may be needed to restore balance. But that shouldn't be confused with businessmen profiting from market inequalities inherent in a system. There may be many areas of the ticket business that are suspect (like one company controlling the total supply of tickets in the first place), but I don't think the scalpers are to blame.

 

[Steven K]

Jonathan makes a great point... thank you, Jonathan.

According to some of the logic in this thread, scarcity or demand should have NO influence on price. Therefore, if you are fortunate enough to have a copy of a rare and in-demand collectible, you should not charge more than what the market value of the product was when you purchased it.

Just silly.