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I can't keep up/understand specs, so need help...

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Stephen Heath, Aug 25, 2006.

  1. Stephen Heath

    Stephen Heath Well-Known Member

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    I've been holding off for quite a while to buy a HDTV because of a number of things that are "coming", and I need some help understanding if they are here now, moot, replaced... whatever.

    1) I'm thinking LCD because my understanding is there would never ever be any burn in issues of any kind (black bars, network logos)... is this true?

    2) One of the things I was waiting for was 1080p display, as this would be the ultimate eventual official maximum standard that the successor to DVD's would use, is this true, and are the latest displays now 1080p?

    3) As there is always the potential for HD-DVD's to downconvert if you don't use HDMI, I was going to make sure that I had multiple HDMI slots, but I was then told that it had to be version 1.3 of HDMI and that wasn't even released. Are the new televisions using version 1.3 now, and is that definately all you need to use HD-DVD's/Blu Ray (depending on which one wins, I don't intend to buy either right now).

    4) I don't like extra boxes, and I heard that instead of getting a digital cable box from the cable company, newer models you could... well, never understood if this was just plug and play, or buy a card, or what exactly it was... but the point is do the newest TV's do this, or do you still need a cable box?

    Specifically, I try and follow these forums and I see the Samsung Aquas (sp?) get lots of good mentions, and I am personally boycotting Sony (tech guy who had to clean their rootkit from hundreds of machines), so is there a future-perfect Aquas model somewhere between 40-50" that is either out now or coming down the pipeline?

    Thanks for the help, and sorry to ask what might be noobish questions.

    Steve.
     
  2. Alon Goldberg

    Alon Goldberg Well-Known Member

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    I recommend looking at Sharp Aquos sets, or Samsung sets. The Sharp Aquos LC42D62U 42" and LC46D62U 46" 1080p LCD's should be available next month and would definately be worth looking at.

    Samsung has excellent 40" and 46" sets available. Check the 92D, 95D and 96D Series models (most are 1080p).

    Also, if you're willing to give plasma's a second look I recommend Hitachi, Fujitsu, Panasonic or Pioneer Elite sets. There are only a handful of 1080p plasma's available, all over $10,000, so you'd more likely be looking at a 720p/1080i set.
     
  3. Stephen Heath

    Stephen Heath Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Alon! I guess I wait until the spring at least then, because I don't trust the studios, and can't afford to rebuy TV's, so if I want to be sure I never have downconverted HD DVD's, I need to wait for HDMI 1.3. (If I'm understanding how that works... I really don't understand how it could have been a requirement when it didn't even exist before the HD DVD players were actually made and sold, but if anyone can screw the consumer, it's RIAA/MPAA).
     
  4. Alon Goldberg

    Alon Goldberg Well-Known Member

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    HDMI 1.3 will support 30-bit, 36-bit, and 48-bit colour depths for rendering over one billion colours. The color bit depth of today's displays is typically 24-bits RGB - that gets you 16 million colors. Keep in mind that beyond about 30-bit colour, the human eye can't tell a difference.

    Worth waiting for Spring? I'm not so sure what displays will support this new deep colour (if any!), so this might be a gamble.. Personally, I've already gone ahead and purchased an HDMI 1.1 capable TV set in the past 2 months.
     
  5. Stephen Heath

    Stephen Heath Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it's so much about the color, my understanding is that if the studios decide to turn on the ability of HD-DVD/Blu Ray discs to downgrade over any connection other than HDMI, it will require HDMI 1.3... in other words, even having a TV with a 1.2 connection won't stop the downgrading.
     
  6. pearlyred

    pearlyred Member

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    Sorry to butt in, but do projectors also use these different HDMI versions or are they able to just accept whatever source they're given via HDMI?

    My projector has a hdmi input and runs at 720p natively, but I can't see any mention of a HDMI version..

    PR
     
  7. Alon Goldberg

    Alon Goldberg Well-Known Member

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  8. Alon Goldberg

    Alon Goldberg Well-Known Member

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  9. Alon Goldberg

    Alon Goldberg Well-Known Member

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    No, projectors won't just accept whatever source they're given via HDMI. For instance, the Panasonic PT-AE700 has HDMI Version 1.0, while the AE900 has HDMI Version 1.1. Current Panasonic TVs have HDMI Version 1.2a.

    If your projector has a native resolution of 720p then a 1080p signal would need to be downconverted.
     
  10. Allan Jayne

    Allan Jayne Well-Known Member

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    If you choose a 1080p TV (or projector) make sure it has a 1080p HDMI input with HDCP.

    All non-CRT 1080 TV's are 1080p and convert any other input to 1080p. In the event the internal conversion to 1080p is less than ideal (you put features above picture quality) you can attach a dongle to a 1080p input in back at a later date that will do a better job.

    Unfortunately I would say that only 5% of 1080p TV's do a good 1080i to 1080p conversion. The rest I would say are equally divided between fair and poor. Poor means failing to qualify as HDTV. Unfortunately again I don't know which are which and don't know of any easy tests to conduct to find out.

    Without a 1080p input, 720p input is the best second choice. Unfortunately yet again, most cable and satellite boxes don't do a good job converting 1080i to 720p.

    The two hi-def DVD systems do output a good 1080p for your TV with 1080p HDCP input. They will only output standard def. picture quality, even at 1080i, to older TV's or CRT TV''s with only component video 1080i inputs.

    Video hints:
    http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/video.htm
     
  11. TonyD

    TonyD Who do we think I am?

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    stephen good questions.

    i think the latest dlp's also do not have burn in.
    dont quote me though.

    i'm sure someone will confirm if it'sis true.

    the two things i'm wondering about are the burn in and convergence.
    i dont want a tv that i have to converge or worry about that every month or so

    the three rear projectors i'm looking at are the
    sony xbr2
    mits XX732 or XX831 line
    jvc d-ila '97 series
     
  12. Joseph DeMartino

    Joseph DeMartino Well-Known Member

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    You haven't mentioned screen size. Below 40" inches either direct view CRT or LCD tend to make the most sense in terms of price and peformance. Over 42" LCD prices rise steeply and rear projection (of one kind or another) becomes more practical for most people.

    1) I'm thinking LCD because my understanding is there would never ever be any burn in issues of any kind (black bars, network logos)... is this true?

    Yes, but it is also true of any display technology not based on phosphors. (That is, anything other than CRT and Plasma.) LCD, LCD RP, DLP, LCoS sets (not just the latest versions of them) are all effectively immune to burn-in. (LCD-based systems can develop short term - we're talking minutes - "ghost images" if you really leave a static image on them for a very long time. If you grossly abuse an LCD-based system, like running a static image for hours per day, months at at time in a store display, you can apparently create permanent burn-in. But you're not going to do that, are you? [​IMG]

    I'd rate the current non-CRT technologies this way (from worst to best):

    Plasma - Burn-in, gradual phosphor fade
    LCD panel - Inferior black-level, viewing angle
    LCD RP - Black level, screen door effect
    DLP - Rainbow effect if you are one of the people who is bothered by it. Visible pixel structure
    LCoS (Sony SXRD, JVC HD-ILA) - Better blacks than LCD/RP, better pixel fill than DLP, no burn in, no rainbows.

    If you don't absolutely, positively have to hang it on the wall, I'd go with a microdisplay. Of all the microdisplays, I like LCoS best and I went with a 720p JVC HD-ILA this year. If I were buying now, I'd be looking at the 1080p version of the same set.

    2) One of the things I was waiting for was 1080p display, as this would be the ultimate eventual official maximum standard that the successor to DVD's would use, is this true, and are the latest displays now 1080p?

    Those who know more about 1080p than I do have answered this one. I would point out

    3) As there is always the potential for HD-DVD's to downconvert if you don't use HDMI

    As noted in other repiles, the HDMI version thing has more to do with technical specs than with the copy-protection/downconversion that may or may not be implemented by the studios.

    4) I don't like extra boxes, and I heard that instead of getting a digital cable box from the cable company, newer models you could... well, never understood if this was just plug and play, or buy a card, or what exactly it was... but the point is do the newest TV's do this, or do you still need a cable box?

    This is another emerging technology. You can currently use a cable card in place of a cable box to receive all your cable channels in most areas, but you may not be able to use the remote for interactive features like ordering pay-per-view because the cable card communication is one way. An updated spec is on the way which will overcome this limitation. In my case it was only a few dollars more a month to replace my existing digital cable box (which I had needed for my old analog set) with a 2-tuner HD-DVR. I don't mind having "an extra box" to get HD and multiple show recording capability. I miss the interface of my old TiVo, but I like the capability of the new Scientific Atlanta box.

    Regards,

    Joe
     
  13. Joseph DeMartino

    Joseph DeMartino Well-Known Member

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    Tony:

    None of the sets you're looking at require convergence adjustments unless they are grossly out of alignment out of the box (in which case it would be a warranty repair or replacement situation) and none are susceptible to burn-in.

    Regards,

    Joe
     
  14. TonyD

    TonyD Who do we think I am?

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    thanks joe.
    from what i've been able to find out from reading and such this is why i have been looking at these tv's.

    i appreciate the confirmation.

    now if someone will only buy my current tv?
    [​IMG]
     

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