DVD Review HTF REVIEW: The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (1 Viewer)

[Lew Crippen]

I write this at the risk of instant and detailed correction, but basically Arwen (like any elf in this mythology) can choose to become mortal (which Arwen must if she is to marry Aragorn).

This is the central point—that she loves Aragorn more than immortality. How and why she becomes weaker is not properly explained in the movie, even to those who have memorized the books.

In my opinion, it is a device used by the writers to connect Arwen and Aragorn when they are separated (as happened in The Two Towers)

I mostly put this in the minor plot problem bucket and don’t worry about it at all. But then I’m pretty good at suspending my disbelief.

 

[ClaytonMG]

In response me saying there isn't much going on story wise when Orlando Bloom jumps on the fake elephant

The CG didn't bother me nearly as much as a lot of other things. I wouldn't have even cared about the CG effects had I been enjoying the movie but I wasn't.

Clayton

 

[Jack _Webster]

Maybe there wasn't a crucial plot element going on at the time, but by then I am quite emotionally involved in these characters and, yes, I think it's damn cool to Legolas taking down an Oliphaunt all by himself. It gives me a chance to really root for him.

 

[anthony_b]

This has to be the poorest written review I've read on this forum..sorry:frowning:

 

[ClaytonMG]

I'm just curious, do people really think this a poor review or are fans of the movie just getting upset because the reviewer didn't enjoy it as much as the fans think he should have?

Clayton

 

[Kim D]

I've been a fan of the books since the 70's and reread them ever so often. I just reread The Simarillion and I am currently reading The Unfinished Tales. Every once in a while I pick up The Return of the Shadow by Christopher Tolkien and try to read it. I am a huge fan.

I enjoyed the review.

I love the movies. FoTR was the best IMHO.

The CG effects pulled me out of each of the movies at times.

I'm okay with that.

I find it interesting that this thread seems to be a review of a review.

And I enjoy reading the mature discussions.

- kim

 

[Lew Crippen]

Why do you think that Anthony? It seems a bit unfair to comment so negatively without citing an example.

Personally if I were criticizing someone’s writing, I’d make sure that I understood the proper use of modifiers before I made my comment. Of course I understand that you may write quickly—I always do and make many errors. But when you decide to cast stones toward another, you should make sure of the materials used in building your own house.

Reading the review again, I do note some errors in grammar. Nothing particularly egregious, so that I felt compelled to comment. I’m sure that many of us would be interested in your views of the content of Michael’s review. Perhaps not so many of us care about your unsubstantiated opinion of his writing.

 

[Jason_Els]

Not quite true. Arwen can choose to become mortal but how that process works is never explained by Tolkien. There are no magical pendants (available for $99.99 on the New Line store website) or ability to transfer the grace given by Iluvatar (The movie is wrong. Iluvatar gave the elves immortality, not the Valar). Nor must she become mortal to wed Aragorn. She could marry, bear children, and stay immortal if she wishes. She only chooses mortality as she could not live through eternity without him.

Not all elves can make this choice. Only those of the line descending from Beren and Luthien (as Elrond and Arwen are) have the option. All other elves are doomed to living for eternity. If slain or wasted in sorrow, elves are immediately reincarnated in the Halls of Mandos on Valinor upon death. They retain full memory of their lives and, on occasion, return to Middle Earth after their stay in the Halls.

 

[Lew Crippen]

Ah Jason, I knew someone would have more detail than I could remember—if I ever knew. I am pretty deficient on knowing which line has what privileges and restrictions. Or not. I am able to keep the Lancasters and Tudors in place only with a scorecard. Somehow I missed the Middle-Earth cheat sheet.

In the end, all that is necessary for the movie is to know that mortal man is doomed to die, and that Arwen makes that choice.

 

[Ernest Rister]

So why is Arwen dying in the movie? Is there any Tolkien-written basis for this?

 

[Jason_Els]

No.

 

[nolesrule]

It's not a plot point in Tolkien's story called The Lord of the Rings, but there is basis for it asa generality. An Elf can become weary of the world and choose to die.

This is a different issue from Arwen choosing mortality...which has to do with her lineage, and any Elf of that specific lineage (basically limited to Elrond's children) who remains on Middle Earth once Elrond leaves its shores becomes mortal.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

The things we do for love.....

Cryptic ain't it?

You got to give it to Michael for an honest review. As one fellow Kentuckian to another, way to represent, E Town!!!

 

[Jason_Els]

I don't believe this is the case but if you have a passage to cite that contradicts my assertion then please do say what it is. To my knowledge, Elrond leaving middle Earth has nothing to do with whether his children remain elven or mortal.

 

[nolesrule]

OK, I looked it up. I was mistaken about being tied to Elrond leaving Middle Earth...his two sons delayed their choice even after Elrond left Middle Earth. Rather, Arwen made her choice when she marries Aragorn, according to Tolkien (Letter 153, Letters of JRR Tolkien).

Still, not all elves can choose mortality. It is an irrevocable choice that only Elrond and his children can make. Elrond had already made the choice, while his brother Elros chose to be mortal (and thus his children were mortal) and became the first king of the Numenoreans.

Which of course means that Aragorn and Arwen are distantly related.

 

[John_McKittrick]

Some people just don't get it and that's fine. You definately went into this movie with a negative feeling and that's all fine too. But not giving this film at least a 'recommended' is total sacrilege. Even though it won't at all matter, please don't review the extended edition. Thanks.

John

 

[Ernest Rister]

Still, nothing about an Elf who has chosen mortality getting weaker as a bad spirit grows stronger - right?

I think this is going to be fleshed out in the EE. Remember that shot in the trailer of Elrond walking away from Arwen, saying "You gave away your life's grace - I can no longer protect you." (or something like that) Unless I'm wrong, that wasn't in the final cut.

 

[Zen Butler]

Exactly, fan boys you have your monster LOTR thread to frequent and 100's of off-shoots that seem to be allowed to be open. It's a fair and honest review. I'm sorry, I lack the tact, wisdom and patience of Lew, I can't believe how flippin' narrow-minded this subject has become. Sorry there are a few people here who wont shoot LOTR right to the the top of their list. Dub it the Greatest Film of ALL Time!! already. Orson, move over, fan boy has spoken.

LOTR Trilogy C+, ** 1/2 stars, mediocre, my opinion, deal with it.


This one is done.

 

[Nick Sievers]

Just because someone doesn't like the film as much as some other people doesn't mean 'they don't get it'. They just didn't connect with it as much as a lot of people obviously did.

 

[ClaytonMG]

I'm sorry, but does anyone else see that as rude? Does this mean the only reviews of Return of the King should be ones where they say how great the film is?

Clayton