DVD Review HTF REVIEW: The English Patient (2-disc Special Edition) (1 Viewer)

[Opi]

I would like to buy this disk in Canada. Are there any known differences between MIRAMAX USA and Canada releases regarding cover, sound and/or bonus stuff ?

 

[Opi]

I would like to buy this disk in Canada. Are there any known differences between MIRAMAX USA and Canada releases regarding cover, sound and/or bonus stuff ?

 

[Peter McM]

I've put off buying the previous incarnation of this title, waiting patiently for this one. The only thing disappointing is the absence of Juliette Binoche in any features--commentary, etc. I became a fan of hers after this was made; Chocolat and The Unbearable Lightness of Being are two of my favorite films...period.

 

[Peter McM]

I've put off buying the previous incarnation of this title, waiting patiently for this one. The only thing disappointing is the absence of Juliette Binoche in any features--commentary, etc. I became a fan of hers after this was made; Chocolat and The Unbearable Lightness of Being are two of my favorite films...period.

 

[Ian Currie]

Thanks for the heads up on the EE, David. I have a large front projection screen and I often see objectionable EE even when most reviewers don't. I think someone else hit the nail on the head when they suggested that small monitors must be used during the transfer.

I just read another review (Classics On DVD) that said the transfer was devoid of any EE, but again I suspect it could be a case of a smaller screen used for the review.

I look forward to getting my copy and seeing for myself.

 

[Ken_McAlinden]

The commentary with Zaentz, Minghella, and Ondaatje is from the Criterion Collection laserdisc. This is terrific because it was a great commentary.

Regards,

 

[Torgny Nilsson]

I held off buying the former non-anamorphic print of this title and was eagerly awaiting the anamorphic print. But I guess I'll skip this one too and hope for a third release without the EE.

I have a front projection system too and thought the picture quality on Pirates was crap, so I assume I'd feel the same about this movie.

Thanks for the review. Hopefully the studio will start paying more attention to this issue as more and more people get FP systems.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

I'd say the EE is very much on part with Pirates...*maybe* a tad more. So you can use how you reacted to Pirates to give you a good idea how you'd feel with TEP.

Again, just so everyone understands why I'm so pissed off (especially if you're thinking is that the EE wasn't so bad on Pirates) is because this title should be done RIGHT. Watching the image on a 100" screen and thinking "if only those darn halos weren't getting in the way of the movie" should NOT be an issue with a classic like this. Completely unnecessary -- the madness has to stop!

 

[Todd McF]

I don't think David needs to soften his opinion.

Typically I only pay attention to DVD video quality reviews based on Front Projection. I've seen way too many RPTV based reviews giving glowing reports only to find out the disk was an EE, overfiltered POS.

I almost keeled over when "Sound & Vision" called Open Range reference. Reference to what??? Kill Bill Volume 1?
Maybe on a 19" TV.

I honestly don't accept the argument that we need Blue Laser to get a decent DVD for front projection. I watched PAL Conan last night at 120" and it looked great. On the soft side maybe, but it looked great and you know they spent next to nothing mastering that disk. There are literally hundreds of disks I own that look 2x better than Open Range or Kill Bill Volume 1.

I havent seen TEP, but I believe you when you say its crap.

 

[Lewis Besze]

I agree to that for the simple reason,that it is his opinion ,and others like Bill has a different one as well.People should see this for themselves to make up their mind.Many rental places will pick this up.

 

[Mike Frezon]

As I have been monitoring this thread, I just keep thinking how cool it is here at the HTF to be able to have such interesting and informed collegial dialogue between two such good DVD reviewers as Bill Hunt and David Boulet.

Thanks guys.

 

[PeterTHX]

Hmmm.

I'm just wondering what kind of DVD players people are using here. Some players give VERY VERY different results on movies.

And upscaling? How about the native mode? Some experience I've had on upscaling it introduced EE-like artifacts that weren't there in the 480p (or 480i) modes.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Peter THX,

Thanks for your comments. Spend any time over at AVS (where these concepts have been explored in depth)?

You're right that DVD players and subsequent video processing can have an impact in picture quality.

However, with any fixed-resolution digital display...like a DLP projector with 1280 x 720 pixels...scaling will take place in order to accomodate the image to the native pixel array of the projector. It's just a question about where the scaling takes place...inside or outside the projector.

In the case of my display chain, I have taken very great pains to minimize all artifacts that are introduced...especially ringing. My projector/DVD combo has been carefully calibrated using video essentials and displays absolutely NO ringing whatsoever with sharpness test-signals and properly authored DVDs (Matrix 2 and 3 are two examples of nearly "perfect" DVDs with no ringing and loads of real image detail). In fact, I've forced myself to step-back the sharpness control on the projector even lower than what feels "comfortable" to the casual eye to ensure that I'm not adding any ringing of my own to try to "sharpen up" images that are otherwise lacking in natural detail. Such are the sacrifices I make to try to maintain a worthy-reviewing display system...

What I'm seeing is EE that is on the disc.

It is in fact possible to view the unscaled DVD image on my projector/DVD system via a special "native" mode.
"Native" mode is an interesting curiosity (watching a DVD in a small 720 x 480 window on the screen) and can perhaps reveal certain characteristics of the unscaled image, but viewing this way in no-way constitutes a high-end video experience. For one, having a display with square-pixel structure means that any DVD image will appear distorted since DVD's resolution of 720 x 480 pixels does not represent square pixel structure at either 4x3 or 16x9 aspect ratios. But more importantly, at that low level of resolution, quantization artifacts...the square edges of the actual DVD pixels...are a source of severe distraction. DVD images should be though of like digital audio on CD...we oversample our CD audio to interpolate new sample points to "smooth out" the waveform between the original points captured on the disc...so the waveform sounds more natural. Scaling with video is exactly the same...and just like CD audio would sound artificial being played back at its native 44.1 sampling rate with no oversampling, so a DVD looks artifical/digital in "raw" 720 x 480 form. CRT monitors that look ok at this resolution do so because of the lack of tight focus of the CRT beam which blends the edges and rounds off the sharp corners of transition points...inaccuracies that act like an analog-HF filter to minimize visible quanitation error.

When you talk about scaling having introduced EE effects...was the scaled image "larger" and therefore making the EE more visible? Some scaling algorithms can exaggerate HF ringing, but the momitsu v880 DVD player seems to produce a very artifact-free picture (no added ringing) which was one of the reasons I carefully selected this particular player for my review system.

-dave

 

[Larry Sutliff]

I don't know about anyone else, but I like to keep the sharpness control as low as possible(down to zero, if possible). The sharpness setting on most of the televisions I've had experience with just add unnatural noise to the picture that looks like detail to an undiscerning viewer. Of course, a good projection rig like David's may not have this problem, but a consumer grade $1500.00 CRT rear projection set probably isn't geared to a videophile.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Yes.

I used to have my PJ set at a "+1" or "+2" sharpness setting...which really did help make average viewing material (DVD included) look more detailed. However, if I looked closely, it *barely* added some mild ringing which wasn't enough to be objectionable...but I didn't want that emphasis, however slight, to affect my assessment of a DVD being reviewed. And I couldn't opt to just turn the sharpness down for reviewing because I didn't want to get myself used to a "sharp" looking picture for casual viewing only then to switch gears and watch an image that looked softer when trying to critically evaluate PQ...so I set the sharpness to 0 on the PJ and it produces basically "perfect" frequency response with no ringing at all.

Only "down" side is that softly-mastered DVD material looks soft. Of course, well-mastered DVD material is a revelation and by keeping everything set this way consistently, when I review a disc my eyes are seeing an image that I can very easily compare to my impression of every other disc that I watch.

 

[PeterTHX]

Interesting.

For critical evaluation I use my Sony KV-34XBR910, calibrated using the service menu and Digital Video Essentials. The DVD player is a Onkyo DV-SP800 THX SACD-DVD Audio (12-bit, 108MHz Video D/A) with Monster THX 1000 component cable. The TV runs 480p natively. If there's a flaw I can spot it!

Haven't seen "English Patient" CE on it yet. I had seen here people talking on and on about brand-x screen, but rarely the DVD players involved. Many players I've experimented with turn great DVD transfers into artifact-riddled messes. The Sony was a good comprimise for me without spending several grand I didn't have for a top of the line projection system.

 

[Andrew Bunk]

This discussion as well as the discussion of the Cold Mountain disc make me think that there should be a reviewer devoted to reviewing titles with front projection specifically in mind. Perhaps David...

It's obvious that reviewers viewing on RPTV's are seeing different results than those with front projection. I trust the opinions of both Bill Hunt and David in this case, as I'm sure both are very selective about their viewing environment. But I think it's logical to conclude that a reviewer's opinion is most valuable when their equipment is similar to your own.

A front projection system owner might buy The English Patient SE based on Bill's review and be utterly disappointed. An RPTV owner might read David's review of the same disc and stay away from a disc that may very well look good on their system.

Just a thought...

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Good points.


The beauty of viewing on a more critical/revealing system is that one can usually determine how viewers with smaller screens, narrower viewing angles, or more forgiving displays will see things, but it can be very difficult to go the other way round. When I was reviewing on my (excellent) 16x9 480P direct-view...I had no idea how "bad" some DVDs would look projected...because they looked just gorgeous on my CRT monitor from any sane "TV" distance and the beam-spot size of the CRT tube just couldn't capture that fine level of picture information.

If you read my video review carefully, you'll see that I intentionally frame all my negative comments to a "big screen" context, and test the video from different viewing angles to gauge how it would appear for viewers with smaller screens. One of the reasons that I tested the image quality from beyond 2 screen widths distance was so that I would be able to comment on how the picture quality might likely appear for owners of rear-projection HD sets...and I make note that given that viewing angle, the image looked quite acceptable.

I hope that folks take the time to really read my comments in-depth before deciding to pass over a title they would otherwise have purchased. Take everything I say in context...I'm very careful to present it that way for that very reason.

Of course, this only amplifies Andrew's point that it's very difficult to make a "one size fits all" image-assessment. Though, IMO, the best value comes from the most critical viewing system. At one point, many of us never thought we'd upgrade past Prologic audio or 4x3 NTSC televisions. Now look at us. Don't kid yourself...as soon as it's affordable you'll have an 8 foot screen too...so properly mastered "big screen" software is relavent to all HT enthusiasts regardless of what type of display they've got right now...

-dave

 

[Craig S]

The reviewer at DVD Talk who thought the transfer was great views on a 55" Mits RPTV (you have to go into her bio to find this info, however). This gives me hope that the transfer will work for me on my 57" Sony (especially since I view from 11-12 feet).

I wish all reviewers were as precise as David about their viewing conditions. Even the viewing distance makes a difference, and as far as I know David's the only reviewer who provides that information or even talks about it.

 

[Andrew Bunk]

David,

As always thanks for you in-depth replies. I definitely appreciate your effort to apply your experience to all types of equipment.