DVD Review HTF REVIEW: Ben-Hur - Four Disc Collector's Edition (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED). (1 Viewer)

[oscar_merkx]

Thanks Herb for a great review.

I am really looking forward to the 1925 version

 

[Richard Kim]

Actually, The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King also won 11 Oscars as well in 2003.

 

[Herb Kane]

Thanks Richard... see I told you guys I don't watch them anymore

 

[TedD]

Yes, but in very differing degrees.

That said, none of the three examples are anything to brag about, quality wise, when compared to the captures from Moulin Rouge and NY Minute.

Ted

 

[TedD]

Just looked at that scene, no sign of misregistration on my copy of the previous DVD. Roughly at 18:32 or so.

http://webpages.charter.net/tvdias/BH_Rt_Torch.png

Ted

 

[ScottR]

yep

 

[TedD]

See above....

Ted

 

[Vincent_P]

65mm negative is so large that grain isn't even an issue in large-scale theatrical projections, why would you expect to see grain from a 65mm source on 480X720 pixel DVD?

Vincent

 

[TedD]

Um, perhaps because I can see grain on the "Around the World In 80 Days" DVD and because 1950's eastman color film stock had a very coarse grain structure compared to todays film stocks.

I am outputting at 1080 HDTV resolutions to a 1080 x 1920 SXRD Sony Qualia, after a two stage upscale using extremely high quality scaling algorithms, which routinely produces an image that looks better than you would ever think a DVD would look. My seating distance is 1.2 x screen width with a 13' wide 2.55:1 screen.

BTW, I can easily see grain on just about any film originated DVD. The image compares favorably to what I get from my 35mm projectors.

I was a projectionist in a number of 70mm houses back in the 1960's and 1970's and we sometimes used to focus using the film grain and a pair of binocs to insure best results.

Not sure where you live, Vincent, but I would be glad to host a demonstration for anyone who lives in the DFW, Texas area. Shoot me a PM and we'll set it up.

Ted

 

[John Alderson]

Cool, a third active thread debating this DVD.

 

[ScottR]

That's still not the one I'm talking about, Ted....I'll have to pop in the dvd to give you a time...but it occurs before the shot you posted....it's after Stephen Boyd's first scene and speech, when he goes inside and is taking off his breastplate. The torch is big and it's on the right side of the screen.

 

[Cees Alons]

I know, but those aren't the same frames. And, to place my remark in its original context again, it cannot be construed as "a sign of overzealous DVNR", therefore.


Cees

 

[Jay Pennington]

That isn't motion blur. Not in the analogue film vein, anyhow. That is a digital artifact.

 

[TedD]

Cees:

Here's my take on the subject:

At some point, you are going to have to scale the images to view them at a reasonable size.

Being as DVD pixels are not square and the pixels on the PC's we are using to view these images are square, the very fact of saving a DVD frame buffer to a file will result in one of two things: an incorrect AR of the image on your PC's display, or an internal scaling function being performed within the DVD players frame buffer capture and save software to correct for the non-square pixels.

So much for capturing a DVD frame at it's native size without any scaling having been applied.....

Before capture, or after capture, either process can affect the result. However, the scaling algorithm is a constant in either case, regardless of the frame it's working on.

I have done many screen captures using this method and the overall result always has correlated well with what I see on screen.

That's all I can ask for.

Ted

 

[Roger_R]

Oh, that's easy to fix. Just use Media Player Classic to play back the DVD, change the resolution to 720x480 or 848x480 (depending on the AR) and set it to ignore the AR flag. Any other player capable of ignoring the AR flag should be able to do it too. Sure, some slight scaling will be done with 16:9 material, but at least it's not being lanczosed to hell (to my eyes those approximation algorithms soften the image way too much when you resize).
I'm curious, which DVD software player do you use, TedD?

Still waiting for my DVD to arrive from PlayUSA. According to the site, it "INCLUDES BIBLE STUDY GUIDE!". Any idea what that's all about?

 

[DeeF]

Some of these packages apparently include an extra piece, this "Bible study guide" you mentioned.

No retail store or online supplier has received these, as far as I can tell. My package came from Tower Records in NY, which had about 4000 of these on display, but none with the "Bible study guide."

Or perhaps, it was miscommunicated, and the Bible study guide mentioned is just the recreation of the road show souvenir booklet, which is in each package.

My normal sources were all confused about this.

 

[TedD]

RogerR:

I use Theatertek for DVD playback. Interesting that you think Lanczos softens the image, particularly when it has tuning knobs to sharpen (and/or blur) both chroma and luma.
My video card is an NVidia 7800 connected via DVI to a Qualia 004 1080 SXRD projector.

Take a look at this:
http://webpages.charter.net/tvdias/Moulin_01.png
and this:
http://webpages.charter.net/tvdias/NYMin_1.png
making sure you are viewing at full size in your browser (960x1600), paying particular attention to the individual strands of hair in both captures. Also note the lack of ringing and other artifacts on both of these captures. These are both from DVD, processed the exact same way that the Ben-Hur screen caps were and these exibit plenty of detail and no gross artifacts or ringing. Also note the clean sharp demarcations on the reds, which are amazing when you consider that chroma resolution on DVD is considerably poorer than the luma reso;ution.

I use Lanczos2 specifically because it doesn't add ringing, usually at a luma sharpen of between 30 and 60, then follow that with the DScaler sharpen filter at a moderate 40 or so.

I sit quite close (15') and the results on a very large (5'x13') screen are amazing to watch, given a decent transfer on a the DVD.

I can AB to 35mm on the same screen. A good quality transfer on DVD, properly scaled and processed, compares very favorably to film on closeups, but clearly lacks the level of detail in distant shots.

Compare the level of detail on these two screen caps with lack of said detail on the DVD set in question. The only variable in the chain is the source, and I believe that says all that needs to be said on the subject.

Ted

 

[JeremyErwin]

well. a Press release says

"Faith based consumers"? That's an .... interesting... way of putting it.

 

[Ravi K]

So Christians are "faith-based" now? Or do these people consume based on faith?

 

[Stephen PI]

I wish they had shown all that wonderful color behind-the-scenes footage, on disc #4, uninterrupted and in it's entirety instead of just glimpses. Was this material just recently discovered?