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DVD Review HTF REVIEW: Aladdin - 2 Disc SE - UTTERLY RECOMMENDED!!! (1 Viewer)

george kaplan

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Mar 14, 2001
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Well I don't really think the lyrics are the problem. The fact is that the melodies in the songs in Hunchback, Pocahontas, Tarzan, etc. aren't anywhere near as good as those in Beauty & the Beast, Aladdin, Snow White, Jungle Book, etc., and the world's greatest lyrics or amazing animation to go with it wouldn't change that.
 

Ernest Rister

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Oct 26, 2001
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"The fact is that the melodies in the songs in Hunchback, Pocahontas, Tarzan, etc. aren't anywhere near as good as those in Beauty & the Beast, Aladdin, Snow White, Jungle Book, etc., and the world's greatest lyrics or amazing animation to go with it wouldn't change that."

That's not a fact, that's a statement of taste. I accept as fact that you like the music you like, but you'll also have to accept as fact that I think "Heaven's Light" is 100 times more moving and affecting than anything in Beauty and the Beast.

I also find the musical score for [/i]Hunchback[/i] far more interesting -- in particular, Menken and Schwarz used the latin language and the chorus to brilliant effect.

Let me give you an example.

Here are the lyrics to the opening section of "Hellfire".

CHORUS
Confiteor Deo Omnipotenti
Beatae Mariae semper Virgini
Beato Michaeli archangelo
Sanctis apostolis omnibus sanctis

FROLLO
Beata Maria
You know I am a righteous man
Of my virtue I am justly proud

CHORUS
Et tibit Pater

FROLLO
Beata Maria
You know I'm so much purer than
The common, vulgar, weak, licentious crowd

CHORUS
Quia peccavi nimis

FROLLO
Then tell me, Maria
Why I see her dancing there
Why her smold'ring eyes still scorch my soul

CHORUS
Cogitatione

FROLLO
I feel her, I see her
The sun caught in raven hair
Is blazing in me out of all control

CHROUS
Verbo et opere


Now, if you're like me, you don't speak latin, so the chanting is just a nice choral effect. If you have the soundtrack CD, though, you'll find that the latin has been translated to english for you, and the scene suddenly opens up in an unexpected way. Thanks to the English translation, let's take another look at these lyrics, this time with the Latin replaced by the English equivalent.

In this scene, Frollo is stating his innocence. But the latin chorus underneath him is actually chanting something else:

***********

CHORUS
I confess to God almighty
To blessed Mary, eternal Virgin
To the blessed archangel, Michael
To the holy apostles, to all the saints...

FROLLO
Beata Maria (Blessed Mary)
You know I am a righteous man
Of my virtue I am justly proud

CHORUS
...and to you, Father...

FROLLO
Beata Maria
You know I'm so much purer than
The common, vulgar, weak, licentious crowd

CHORUS
...that I have sinned...

FROLLO
Then tell me, Maria
Why I see her dancing there
Why her smold'ring eyes still scorch my soul

CHORUS
...in thought,...
FROLLO
I feel her, I see her
The sun caught in raven hair
Is blazing in me out of all control

CHORUS
...in word, and deed.


In other words, Frollo is lying to God. He states in prayer to the Blessed Virgin that he is pure and virtuous, while in his soul, he knows he should confess, to Mary, to all the apostles and all the saints, and to God Himself -- that he has sinned in thought, in word, and deed.

The music reflects the schism in Frollo's soul -- half devout, half tempted mortal. Like Salieri, Frollo is becoming quite insane. He yells, "It's not my fault!", while the chorus sings back, "Mea Culpa (Through My Fault)". He's at war with his own mind and soul. Like many dramatic scenes in Hunchback, this sequence is a landmark moment in modern Disney feature animation, not simply for the technical prowess, but because of the attempt to tackle such dark, adult territory.

Now, call me crazy, but I find this more interesting than, say, "I use antlers in all of my decorating". That doesn't make it so for everybody else, its just my own personal taste.
 

george kaplan

Senior HTF Member
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Mar 14, 2001
Messages
13,063
Ernest,



First of all, I should of course have said IMO. But at guess at this point in the conversation, I pretty much assumed we all knew we are all just stating personal opinions. And while I love great lyrics (e.g., Dylan, Lennon, etc.), and great lyrics can make a great song even greater, I have always been of the opinion that the world's greatest lyrics can't elevate a song with a bad melody. That's why (IMO), rap music isn't any good. There may be great lyrics in there, but I wouldn't know, cause I'm never going to listen to them cause the music is so god-awful (IMO).



I listen to a number of operas in which I don't understand the language (e.g., Carmen, Barber of Seville, etc.), but the music is so great (IMO), that it doesn't matter. On the other hand, you could take some the best lyrics ever written (IMO) (e.g., Gee Officer Krupke), and put it to a horrible tune, and I would hate it.



Now, the music in Hunchback of Notre Dame is just very bland and very boring (IMO). I wouldn't care if the lyrics were the most moving, heartfelt, tear-inducing or hilarious, gut-busting, laugh-inducing ones ever written, because when I listen to a song, a great lyric improves a good to great song, and a bad melody ruins a song regardless of lyrics.



And to be clear, all of the above is IN MY OPINION only.
 

Luis Esp

Supporting Actor
Joined
May 25, 2001
Messages
583
quote:Now, the music in Hunchback of Notre Dame is just very bland and very boring (IMO). I wouldn't care if the lyrics were the most moving, heartfelt, tear-inducing or hilarious, gut-busting, laugh-inducing ones ever written, because when I listen to a song, a great lyric improves a good to great song, and a bad melody ruins a song regardless of lyrics.




George, I have to agree with you. I saw Hunchback when it was first released in the cinemas and was underwhelmed by the music. IMO the music was so over the top and self important, especially "Heaven's Light/Hellfire". A big "So What".



Having the movie now on both laserdisc and dvd, I can appreciate what the directors were aiming for. I even have the soundtrack, but the music has never really grown on me.

I personally prefer the music from Beauty and the Beast, Pocahontas (shame on the dvd release...amazing laserdisc box)and even Mulan and Hercules. Hell, I still sing along to the movies.
 

Simon Brown

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Messages
71
I just a had a chance to watch this movie and would like to know if others have noticed this. Throughout the entire movie the dialogue comes out of all three front channels not just the centre. Has anyone else noticed this I own the Region 4? It only happens with the Enhanced Mix not the normal mix.
 

Casey Trowbridg

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Apr 22, 2003
Messages
9,209
An interesting discussion these past few posts.



Anyway, I've gone through this DVD completely now, and I've got to say that the documentary on disc 2 is by far my favorite of all the Platnum releases. This is actually my favorite Platnum release so far, because I also found both commentaries to be very enjoyable also, and of course the movie itself.



Disney did a great job on this one.
 

Ivan Lindenfeld

Second Unit
Joined
Apr 23, 2000
Messages
335
I read this entire thread before posting. I very much appreciate that one of my favorite films motivated someone to write such a detailed review. Thank you.



Only one mention, by Ernest, of the travesty that is Nich and Jessica singing A Whole New World? It's so bad it's offensive. This song has a special place in my heart and was played as our dance song at my wedding. The in-film version and the Peabo Bryce / (her name escapes me at the moment, dammit!) version are both fondly remembered.



I also had (past tense augmented) the opinion that Jessica Simpson was a nice little pop singer, but I now have the opinion that SHE MUST NEVER BE ALLOWED TO SING AGAIN!
smile.gif
Holy schmokes, it's bad. Those little drops where she loses tone ON PURPOSE are just un-artistic. Or are they a weakness in her voice that is corrected electronically in the studio? Nich did a serviceable job hitting the notes at least.



Every nice looking person that sang in choir in high school does not deserve fame, no matter how perky her tits! I'm probably preaching to the proverbial choir here, but I was surprised to find that the woman cannot sing pleasingly at all.



On the balancing side, the rescued Ashman/Mencken song as sung by Clay Aiken is a great song, and was soothing to those of us that miss Howard Ashman's contribution to musical lyrics. Thank the sweet Lord they found a man who can actually sing to bring the song to life. I am not ready to say thank God for American Idol, but at least the winners have singing talent.



I will not be voicing an opinion on PQ for the film on DVD as my Apex is still firmly plugged into my TV for some stupid reason.
smile.gif




Ivan
 

Matt Czyz

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jun 5, 2003
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Real Name
Matt Czyz
quote:Every nice looking person that sang in choir in high school does not deserve fame, no matter how perky her tits!




Best thing I've read on this forum in a month.





Ernest,

Re: your comparison between song lyrics in Hunchback and Beauty & the Beast--I think that one was pretty unfair. The two songs you brought up are trying to do two completely seperate things. Gaston's song is to show just how ridiculously manly he thinks he is, and that lyric is pefect for *that* song. The Hunchback song Hellfire is used to create a totally different mood, with smart lryics as well, but appropriate to *that* song (and movie). I don't even think you can compare the two. Well, you could, but I would still say that they're each great songs, for what they're trying to accomplish at that point in each's respective movie.
 

Ryan Wong

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Oct 6, 2002
Messages
134
Just watched the DVD few days ago.



Listening to Enhanced Home Theater Mix, I for one also think the vocal on the rear surround speakers is distracting, until I switched on my surround back... I have a 6.1 setup. After surround back was switched on, the vocal on rear surround was send to my surround back. Now only center speaker and surround back center have it. Its sounds like the singing is more in front of me.



The changed lyrics in "Arabian Night" is also very distracting. They could have re-mixed it and blended it with the rest of the song with today's technology.



I like the deleted song "Proud of Your Boy". It reminds me one of the song from Newsies, another Disney live action musical movie with Alan Menken composed the songs. Maybe that is one of the reason the song has to be taken out.



Ok, now I am having high expectation to the new Mary Poppin DVD.
 

Ben_@

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Messages
217
I know this really doesn't apply, but even listening with my humble stereo speakers, the enhanced mix is a treat. Watching "A Whole New World" I actually felt the orchestra, and could hear aspects of the song beyond just the vocals. A great improvement.
 

stephen la

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Oct 3, 1999
Messages
210
yeah that jessica simpson and nick version of a whole new world is really bad.. I was really hoping to like it..

I thought it would be at least decent..

my favorite is the brad kane/lea solonga version.

does anyone know how come no brad kane (aladdin's singing voice) interviews on the disc? I would of liked to hear brad kane sing proud of your boy and you can count on me, Im sure probably recorded it
 

Ernest Rister

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2001
Messages
4,148
"Gaston's song is to show just how ridiculously manly he thinks he is, and that lyric is pefect for *that* song. The Hunchback song Hellfire is used to create a totally different mood, with smart lryics as well, but appropriate to *that* song (and movie). I don't even think you can compare the two. Well, you could, but I would still say that they're each great songs, for what they're trying to accomplish at that point in each's respective movie."



I absolutely agree with you, 100%. I think I was even making the same argument a few posts back in this thread, about how the use of music is particular to each film, and the glib lyrical style used for Beauty and the Beast would not have served other films, like Bambi or Pinocchio or Sleeping Beauty. In the end, what works best is a mere matter of taste -- even our subjective responses to the movie impact our opinions of the music.



For me, Robin Hood and Bedknobs and Broomsticks are clear example, because I think the songs are flat out great in both films. But because both films have comparably low esteem among the other Disney films, you rarely see the songs discussed. To be frank, I'd rather listen to "Portabello Road" from Bedknobs and "Not in Nottingham" from Robin Hood than most songs in the Disney library.



Picking the Disney feature with the best songs is almost impossible, there is such a rich legacy to choose from.



Picking the Disney feature with the worst is a no-brainer for me...The Fox and the Hound.
 

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