HTF EXCLUSIVE: Twilight Time July and August 2012 Release Announcements (1 Viewer)

[ReggieW]

Is the market in such dire shape that Sony can't release a title like Bye Bye Birdie on it's own?
This is a pretty big catalog title, one that's consistently stocked at places like Target on dvd. I think a bare-bones release of this title at $29.95 (plus tax/shipping) or higher is a non-starter. This is a film with a wide demographic, so I'm really stumped how Sony can believe that TT is the best outlet for this film? At least if it had gone to Criterion it would've been seen on store shelves (not to mention a heap of extras to at least justify the price). I think if the only place to get this title will be on TT's website, then someone is leaving serious money on the table.
A real head-scratcher, imho.

 

[Alan Tully]

Very bad news that "Those Magnificent Men In Their Flying Machines" is being released by Twilight. I cant believe that Fox dont think this is worth a normal release.

Except for good old Warner, it looks like the studios think very few catalogue titles are worth releasing, & from a financial point of view they're probably right. So thank the lord for all these specialist companies who are releasing more & more titles.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Except for good old Warner, it looks like the studios think very few catalogue titles are worth releasing, & from a financial point of view they're probably right. So thank the lord for all these specialist companies who are releasing more & more titles.

I agree with you, Alan.

It's been a pretty scary few years for deep catalog titles.

They don't sell well. I have heard horror stories from executives
about the amount of money their studios have spent and lost on
classic releases. There's a reason why they have outsourced
distribution and created archive programs where only enough
copies are made to meet the demand.

I think, these days, if not for the specialty companies or the
archive/MOD programs, we would never see any of these films
surface on Blu-ray or DVD.

 

[MichaelEl]

It's been a pretty scary few years for deep catalog titles.
They don't sell well.  I have heard horror stories from executives
about the amount of money their studios have spent and lost on
classic releases.  There's a reason why they have outsourced
distribution and created archive programs where only enough
copies are made to meet the demand.

If the studios can't sell Blu-Rays of titles like JASON AND THE ARGONAUTS discounted to $9.99 at Amazon.com why do companies like TT think they can sell them for $30+?

 

[Bob Cashill]

Because the true-blue cinephiles left will buy them at that price, just as we did laserdiscs. We'd buy them more cheaply, too, but the studios aren't terribly interested in our business anymore.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

If the studios can't sell Blu-Rays of titles like JASON AND THE ARGONAUTShttp://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=hometheaterforum-20&l=ur2&o=1 discounted to $9.99 at Amazon.com why do companies like TT think they can sell them for $30+?

Agreed with Bob. Additionally, if I am assuming this correctly,
companies like Twilight Time and programs like MOD can do
more limited runs on releases.

In other words, if Jason and the Argonauts doesn't sell thru
retail, Sony has to eat the unsold discs. If the same movie
doesn't sell through Twilight Time or MOD, limited pressings
means a smaller amount of unsold discs.

 

[rsmithjr]

Because the true-blue cinephiles left will buy them at that price, just as we did laserdiscs. We'd buy them more cheaply, too, but the studios aren't terribly interested in our business anymore.

The studios are quite interested in our business but are looking for a business model that makes it profitable for them to serve us with the titles that we want.
They have probably calculated that the demand for classic titles is relatively inelastic as a function of price. So, a larger price point together with a distribution model like TT that guarantees them a profit is better than a lower price point with the old retail distribution model that, according to their models, will end up with their losing money.
I think a lot of people in the business love old movies and would be thrilled to see them doing well on Blu-ray. Studio people are quite like us (and, indeed, many people in the business post on this forum.) They are willing to do what they can to support cinephiles, but just not to the point of racking up losses.
We also should note that remasters being supplied to TT are not really being done for Blu-ray alone. They are done for general reasons of asset preservation and with the idea of servicing multiple distribution models over time. So, when a title like Picnic or The Egyptian is as beautiful as it is, it means that the studios have gone the extra mile and certainly have done a better job than needed for a channel like Netflix that has no interest whatever in the quality of their product.
It is not hard to guess that the licensing fee TT can pay for a title is something like $50,000 give or take, and this does not pay for a decent remaster and certainly does not pay for the creation of new extra materials. So the licensing monies from TT just provide a bit of help, but it is better than the bath the studios would take on a standard Blu-ray release.

 

[TravisR]

Because the true-blue cinephiles left will buy them at that price, just as we did laserdiscs. We'd buy them more cheaply, too, but the studios aren't terribly interested in our business anymore.

Yeah, I can even appreciate that the studios aren't seeing enough profit to release more catalog titles (if they were, they'd still be pumping them out like it was 2003) but I'm just happy that someone is releasing smaller movies. I can't say that I'm fond of paying $30 but if it comes down to paying $30 to a company who has licensed a movie or having that movie sit on a studio shelf forever, I'll pay the $30. In a perfect world, every title would be $15 or $10 or $1 but it isn't a perfect world.

 

[rsmithjr]

Very bad news that "Those Magnificent Men In Their Flying Machines" is being released by Twilight. I cant believe that Fox dont think this is worth a normal release.

It is hardly new information that catalog is not selling on Blu-ray.
But it is very good news that those of us who want it will be able to have Magnificent Men on Blu-ray. I understand that it looks excellent.

 

[Brandon Conway]

Catalog is selling decently well. If it wasn't we wouldn't be seeing ANY releases from anywhere. What it's *not* doing is selling like DVD did in 2000-2005, which was the greatest sales mark in the history of home video. That era will be difficult to ever repeat again to any degree.

 

[ReggieW]

Catalog is selling decently well. If it wasn't we wouldn't be seeing ANY releases from anywhere. What it's *not* doing is selling like DVD did in 2000-2005, which was the greatest sales mark in the history of home video. That era will be difficult to ever repeat again to any degree.

I agree.
The studios are probably still using the old DVD business model. I mean, I remember Warner claiming how the Astaire/Rogers and Thin Man sets sold something like a million copies - a feat that would be barely imaginable on blu-ray, especially more so in this economic climate.
I still can't understand why a film like Bye Bye Birdie can't receive a retail release. It's a film well-known with wide appeal and appeals to more than just the die-hard cinephiles who frequent this board and know who Twilight Time is. This is a musical still loved and performed in high schools all over the country. If Sony cannot release this title and make it profitable, then I fear that aside from Lawrence of Arabia, we probably won't be seeing much of anything from them on catalog blu-ray in the future.

 

[rsmithjr]

This is a musical still loved and performed in high schools all over the country. If Sony cannot release this title and make it profitable, then I fear that aside from Lawrence of Arabia, we probably won't be seeing much of anything from them on catalog blu-ray in the future.

Bye Bye Birdie has also been well exposed on home video.
Right now, you can buy the DVD from Amazon for $10.49. 47 Amazon marketplace sellers are selling it new for prices starting at $6.68. You can stream it free on Amazon Prime. I have seen it at Target and other stores for very low prices.
Sony has apparently calculated that the $50K or so they will net from the TT licensing is better than what a general release on Blu-ray will do, while meeting much if not all of the actual customer demand for the title over the next three years.
Please consider the possibility that Sony's view of the title's Blu-ray prospects are correct, given the exposure that the film has already had on home video.

 

[Bob Furmanek]

I agree. This doesn't bode well for vintage Golden Age 3-D material as well. If Sony won't release BYE BYE BIRDIE, I don't expect to see FORT TI or THE NEBRASKAN...

 

[rsmithjr]

I agree. This doesn't bode well for vintage Golden Age 3-D material as well. If Sony won't release BYE BYE BIRDIE, I don't expect to see FORT TI or THE NEBRASKAN...

Or to look at it differently: since Sony is in fact releasing Bye Bye Birdie on Blu-ray through TT, perhaps they will also release some of your 3-D material the same way. Perhaps we will "see" The Nebraskan provided we are as flexible as Sony is trying to be.
My point is we have to see TT and similar solutions as a positive solution to a difficult economic problem.

 

[Bob Furmanek]

I reached out to the good folks at TT back in February. Fingers crossed...
Bob

 

[GMpasqua]

Window Card

 

[trajan]

Twilight Time says they are trying to get THE BLUE MAX and hope to have another TODD-AO picture by the end of the year.

 

[Kevin EK]

I believe we will continue to see big catalogue titles from the majors on Blu-ray over the next few years, but when you get down into the depth of catalogue already mined by DVD, it becomes less likely. And when you get down into the depth of catalogue that didn't even make it to DVD, the chances are miniscule, unless you're talking something like WINGS.

MOD has been a welcome alternative to getting certain titles, and Twilight TIme has been a more upscale way of accomplishing the same goal. I don't think it's a bad thing that Twilight Time is releasing these titles, particularly if it's clear that the majors have no incentive to do so.

 

[Matt Hough]

I have liked many of their releases, but I'm most grateful for Swamp Water which I had never seen and knew nothing about until I reviewed it. It's one of the great, unsung films from the 1940s and deserves to be far better known.

 

[JoHud]

Yeah, the only disappointing thing about this announcement is, like the last one, there is only one title that was never previously released on DVD.
I agree, I await more Swamp Water style releases of good oldies that aren't as well-known as they should be.