Blu-ray Review HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Modern Times (1 Viewer)

[Ruz-El]

Originally Posted by bigshot

AHave you seen the original release version of The Gold Rush? That's probably the next one to be released by Criterion.

Yes I have. the Warners release included both versions, and I used to have a copy of it off VHS that I have viewed numerous times. I enjoy both it and the re-release Chaplin did, for different reasons. Hopefully Criterion will release both versions. If not, if the extras and presentation are as impressive as Modern Times seems to be (my copy hasn't arrived yet) then I'll probably upgrade it too. WE WONT KNOW THAT THOUGH UNTIL IT'S ACTUALLY ANNOUNCED.

 

[bigshot]

I believe the version that is called the original theatrical version on the Warner set is actually an edited TV print. The only home video release of the complete original cut is on laserdisc. It might be the same for Monsier Verdoux, but I don't keep up on that one as much as I do the silents. This is the problem with older films on home video. One would think that once the research is done and the elements are assembled, subsequent remasterings would incorporate what went before and improve on it. But that isn't the case. Edited and alternative cuts keep turning up like a bad penny. It's a shame that with something as important as Chaplin features, the people releasing them don't care as much about completeness as the people watching do. Most Chaplin scholars agree that the reedits he did late in life are inferior to the original cuts. I read a review of this Modern Times bluray that said in the commentaries, one of the scholars says that Chaplin was wrong to think that he needed to cut the scene that is only presented complete buried in the supplements here.

 

[Ruz-El]

Well, prior to the DVD of The Gold Rush, I only had the opportunity to watch a VHS version that was probably the same thing or somewhere in between, since it wasn't the reissue version. Regardless, I enjoyed all the versions in the Warner sets, and if Criterion only has the rights to spruce them up and reissue, I'm OK with it (I really like the narration in the Gold Rush reissue, it's cute). Again, we wont know until other titles are announced, so I don't see the point of condemning future releases based on speculation. Have you seen the laser disc version? Could you spot the differences between the Warners Version and it? Was there actual physical differences, or was it a running time difference that could be attributed to differences in film speed? Does anyone even know what Chaplin's definitive final cut was on some of these films (Not "Modern Times" so much since that song cut is pretty obvious) prior to the re-edits, or are they all based on comparing numerous prints and seeing which one is the longest? I honestly don't know since I'm not a scholar and only know what I recall from commentaries and numerous Chaplin documentaries.

There's an added problem to older films that you did not mention: suitable elements may not exist. Which is why you see edits and cuts on so many films, especially silents. The Chaplin at Keystone set that was recently released is evident of this. The films look incredible (for the most part) but there's still missing frames and what not. There's a good chance that the laser disc version of Gold Rush only exists as a laser disc, and would look like hell on DVD, much less Bluray.


If you're saying

the people releasing them don't care as much about completeness as the people watching do.

in regards to Criterion as a company. I have to politely disagree. Criterion is responsible for more quality releases then any other company I can think of, period. That said, if the rights holders to films only provide them with one set of materials, then that's the only option they have. So I will also politely disagree with you on condemning this "Modern Times" release since it is still a directors approved cut. I fully understand that some might not like those cuts, but I still find it an entertaining watch.

 

[bigshot]

I did a quick Google search and it's Limelight that is only complete on Laserdisc, due to a scene that was cut after release. David Shepard is the expert on all things Chaplin. His DVD releases on Image are the most complete and accurate releases out there. The Warner sets are converted from PAL and have ghosting and speed issues. Shepard's don't have that problem. He just completed a set of the Chaplin Keystone comedies that belongs in any slapstick fan's library.


I wasn't referring to Criterion in my criticism. I was referring to the Chaplin estate. They are the ones that dictated that the cut versions be used. Criterion wanted to release the original theatrical version. I suspect the reason for that has to do with the mechanical royalties on the Chaplin composed soundtracks, not the quality of the edits, but I'm not sure of that.


Interestingly enough, I ran across a reference to Gone With The Wind and King Kong being reframed to widescreen for their 1954 re-releases. Thank goodness those aren't the versions we have on video today!

 

I've never seen this, and I'm definitely getting it!

 

[Patrick McCart]

Modern Times at least has a relatively minor edit. And it's included as a supplement. I don't see where anything was done wrong. Still, I'm not sure why Chaplin wanted it cut in the 1950s, but he had his reasons. There's no reason to compare the trimming of one scene to a full re-edit. And I have no doubt that Criterion will include both the 1925 and 1942 cuts of The Gold Rush. I would expect the First National films to all have both cuts side-by-side. The Kid would be easy since both would fit on a DVD-9 with room to spare, let alone a Blu-Ray.


I've been waiting for B&N to ship my copy, but the reviews seem to be overall glowing. The captures on DVD Beaver and Blu-Ray.com look fantastic.

 

[bigshot]

i hope you're right, Patrick. criterion is good, but they're not infallible. They messed up Fields' "The Dentist" pretty bad and they keep re releasing it with the same mistake. The Chaplin narration is nice to hear once, but I'd hate to have that be the only option. I just got the bluray of Keaton's Sherlock Jr and I hear it has the cut in the pool game restored. Hopefully the music is good too. The Clubfoot Orchestra score was dreadful. Silent films have so many opportunities for mistakes.

 

[Dick]

I love and prefer the original version, except that, as it was an extra on the WB set, it had lousy PQ. I find the much better-looking reissue to be okay except for that insipid narration of Chaplin's. I find his constant use of "The Little Fellow" insufferable. I would be delighted to see the original subtitled edition fully restored and released to Blu-ray.

Originally Posted by bigshot

Have you seen the original release version of The Gold Rush? That's probably the next one to be released by Criterion.

 

[rich_d]

Originally Posted by Patrick McCart

Modern Times at least has a relatively minor edit. And it's included as a supplement. I don't see where anything was done wrong. Still, I'm not sure why Chaplin wanted it cut in the 1950s, but he had his reasons. There's no reason to compare the trimming of one scene to a full re-edit. And I have no doubt that Criterion will include both the 1925 and 1942 cuts of The Gold Rush. I would expect the First National films to all have both cuts side-by-side. The Kid would be easy since both would fit on a DVD-9 with room to spare, let alone a Blu-Ray.


I've been waiting for B&N to ship my copy, but the reviews seem to be overall glowing. The captures on DVD Beaver and Blu-Ray.com look fantastic.

I'm not following the logic. How is Criterion not releasing the original theatrical release of Modern Times inspire any confidence that the original theatrical release of Gold Rush will be included?

And I suspect that much of posts here (including mine) is just a beginning dance as to what a larger concern is ... that piece of shite reedit of The Gold Rush. Echoing Dick's comments about "that little fellow" ad nauseum, the only way I will ever watch the 1942 version again is if they are playing it in Hell when I arrive. I expect that it will be playing in a double feature with Death in Venice.

 

[Ruz-El]

Originally Posted by rich_d



Echoing Dick's comments about "that little fellow" ad nauseum, the only way I will ever watch the 1942 version again is if they are playing it in Hell when I arrive. I expect that it will be playing in a double feature with Death in Venice.

I thought that "Little Fellow" stuff was charming


Hopefully we get both versions for the films where the cuts have been extensive. I'm still waiting for my copy of "Modern Times" to arrive.

 

[bigshot]

I can follow silent films without the need for narration.

 

[Ruz-El]

Originally Posted by bigshot

AI can follow silent films without the need for narration.

Like every other silent film fan in the world? You're awesome, have a cookie...