How to buy new speakers? (1 Viewer)

[DaveF]

It's reasonable advice, to demo at home the internet options. I can create a 5.1 MBS kit with SVS's cheapest sub and have 68 cents to spare. But then there's no money to send it back if I don't like it... If SVS had free shipping, I might be willing to do an in-home demo. But I'm unwilling to allocate 5-10% of my budget on shipping costs for demo units, especially when it would ultimately break my budget.

You're right about the numerous options. I've been purposeful in reducing and eliminating options. I've learned in recent years that too many options creates stress and unhappines.

 

[DaveF]

Added a quick side question of sub choice, having gotten input from SVS.

I've settled on a Paradigm Monitor system, but with bookshelfs, not dipoles, for surrounds. Still undecided on specific selection. Now leaning away from 7.1 Front Height and thinking of pouring the money into the 5.1 setup.

 

[Mike Frezon]

I'm amazed your wife is still with you after all the effort you've put into this decision.

 

[DaveF]

I get a little (tiny bit) obsessive during the shopping process on these sorts of things. Thankfully, she bears with me. And has been helpful in setting prioritizing on some practical issues (subwoofer size, among others).

 

[Mike Frezon]

Well it seems that for you, like me, these bits of shopping are few and far between. So, when they avail themselves, you gotta do it right. I fully understand.

All my wife kept saying as I was agonizing over the necessity of 1080p over 720p on a 32" set (and it's corresponding bump in pricetag) was, "I want you to be happy, honey." I love that woman.

 

[DaveF]

Originally Posted by gene c

But if I were purchasing speakers in that price range I'd have to budget a few bucks to find out. I can't tell you how to spend your money but I would order the MTS bookshelves, buy the Paradigms you would use as surrounds and listen to them both for three weeks or so in my own living room.

It turns out that an SVS sales rep lives mere miles from my house and has offered me a demo of the MTS system! I'm hoping he can schedule it for this weekend. Looking forward to this

Not the same as having the system in my house, but should meet or exceed any demo I've had at local stores.

 

[gene c]

I'd have to agree. In someone elses house is still better than a store. Last week, when buying yet another receiver off craigslist, the guy had a pair of Swan-M1's hooked up to it and man those things were amazing! First time I've heard a good ribbon tweeter in a home environment.

Anyway, even if you still prefer the Paradigms at least you will have heard a good internet brand as well. Hope the audition goes well.

Added a quick side question of sub choice, having gotten input from SVS.

I'm not the one to offer advise on subs but it looks like you got a reply from the one of the guy's you should pay attention to.

 

[DaveF]

Did the SVS MTS demo tonight. Admittedly, I don't hang with audiophiles. But this was the best home audio I've ever heard. Stereo imaging of a favorite Sting CD like I've never experienced, except perhaps with careful listening on headphones. A subwoofer kit that I'll never own, that shook my pants legs during key demo scenes. And some great tech salespitching on the product and SVS in general. Really enjoyed it.

My purchase decision is in disarray as I suddenly am considering seriously an SVS kit over my just-decided Paradigm system. My wife continues to be patient and flexible with my shopping process

 

[Mike Frezon]

Originally Posted by DaveF /forum/thread/297610/how-to-buy-new-speakers/30#post_3662090

 

[DaveF]

My wife has OK'd the aesthetics of the SVS system. I do think the Paradigm speakers are much more attractive; SVS is still designed by a bunch of engineers and it shows. But they are acceptable. I still need to check the total size and room placement. These are big!

The last remaining practical anxiety with SVS over Paradigm is that SVS are both lower efficiency (~89 dB/V) and 4-ohm, and I have a modest Onkyo 707. The Paradigms have a much higher efficiency (~95 dB/V) at 8-ohms, which (I think) means higher SPL from the Paradigms on my receiver before it distorts.

My SVS contact urged me to get an external amp and gave recommendations. (This is a dangerous man to have talked to... ). But that's an upgrade that I don't have money or space for presently.

 

[Ed Moxley]

Anytime a speaker in a system is 4 ohms, people suggest an external amp. The people at the Polk forums just get stupid over external amps. They are nice if you can afford them. The Onkyo 707 is 4 ohm certified, so in the initial setup, you set it to 4 ohms. The MTS-01 towers are 4-6 ohms, the MCS-01 center is 4-6 ohms, and the MBS-01 is 8 ohms. As long as you don't run the speakers at loud volumes, for long periods of time, and the 707 isn't closed in, you should be ok. Might be good to get an amp sometime in the future though. Just a 2 ch. amp for the fronts, to take the biggest load off the receiver, would work great. The receiver wouldn't have a problem with the center, and surrounds.

My 805 is supposed to be one of the culprits for running very hot. My Polk LSi9 front speakers are 4 ohms, my LSiC center is 4 ohms, and my other 4 speakers are 8 ohms. My receiver barely gets warm, after being on almost 18 hrs. a day. The SVS speakers being 4-6 ohms, instead of a straight 4 ohms, may not pull as much of a load? I don't really know. Do you know how that works?

Of course, all this is really gonna be determined by how much you like them, when you hear the demo at the rep's house, right? So, this could be a moot point, although I have a feeling you'll like them. If you don't, you'll be the first one I've heard of. They are gorgeous to look at too. You are talking about the MTS-01 system, right? The SBS-01 system (all black) are all 8 ohms. I'm looking forward to hearing what you think of the demo. I wish I could be there for it.

 

[DaveF]

I heard them at the rep's house yesterday (An aside, I'll add that he's not simply a rep, but a higher-level employee)

I liked them. Great demo. Best stereo imaging I've ever heard in a home. (Although, re: everyone liking them, I'm reading some discussion from a year ago at that other forum where some folks did a comparo and the MTS was not well liked compared to the other kits. I'm sorting out their critical comments to better understand the broad view of SVS's MTS system.)

The one issue that niggles at me...that I didn't voice last night...was the center by itself seemed "thin". It merged perfectly with the sides. But with pure male vocals, dead center in a movie, it seemed lightweight. It might have been the psychacoustics of hearing the voices coming physically several feet below the screen -- the arrangment in the room -- and feeling disconnected from the visuals. It might also be the reality of vocal tracks: without background music, simple dialog is a think, neutral-sounding affair.

The practical issues I'm noodling are aesthetics: these are huge and honestly not as pretty as Paradigms. But huge! Tonight I need to take more room measurements and make sure they'll fit.

And another bit bit of customer service: SVS is sending me a sample of the Rosenut finish so I can show my wife.

I may or may not buy SVS speakers. But these guys rock. Most outstanding customer service. Great engineering-speak salespitch. Educational approach to selling their product. Recommend both homemade room improvements and other companies' products to support the best sound production. I'm very impressed. You probably don't have the good chance to live across town from an SVS employee who can do a personal demo, but I'm convinced you'll get excellent email information and they'll make a fair effort to answer your questions and concerns.

 

[Ed Moxley]

Surprising to hear that about the center speaker. It sounded thin with everything?
What "other" forum are you talking about?

 

[DaveF]

That "thin" sound was only with pure dialog. They integrated flawlessly with the sides. In action sequences, like the lobby scene in The Matrix, it was marvelous. But when it was simply Morpheus talking to Neo in the white room, with no background sound effects or music at all, it seemed thin or disconnected.

I wonder if it's the psychoacoustics of the center speaker being 3-feet below the screen center. (center channel on a cabinet. An ~80" screen up on the wall.) Or it might be the center channel accurately recreating the dialog: male voices with no enhancements or supporting effects and music may be a neutral sounding thing.

Because in all other ways, this was not experienced.

Oh: AVS is "that other forum".

 

[Ed Moxley]

Originally Posted by DaveF
Oh: AVS is "that other forum".

Oh, well, you have to consider the source.
I had a feeling that's where you were talking about.
Too many people there think they are critics. They tend to rip stuff apart, just to find something bad to say. I don't think they like to say anything good very much, about anything. There's two places online, I won't look for reviews of HT equipment, for any reason. They're AVS and Audioholics. I couldn't care less what either place has to say, in a review. If I want to read a review for something, the places I go are here, and Sound & Vision Magazine site. Home Theater Magazine is ok for reviews also. They just have some idiots working in their subscription department.

Here is a review of the SBS-01 system: http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/speakers/1962/svs-sbs-01-home-theater-speaker-system.html and test bench results of same system: http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/speakers/1932/test-bench-svs-sbs-01-home-theater-speaker-system.html I don't think they've reviewed the MTS-01 system yet.

Here's a review of the MBS-01 speakers by Home Theater Magazine: http://www.hometheatermag.com/compactspeakers/708svs/index.html

 

[DaveF]

While I find AVS helpful for shopping research , I agree you have to be careful in what "critical" comments you trust. I found a discussion that was relatively negative about the M-series, and got some perspective on that through the S&V review on the MTS speakers.

I continue to think that speakers are the worst thing to shop for and the hardest to get useful reviews on. When people say the MBS speakers are e.g. too "laid back", I realize I have no idea what they're talking about. But when S&V then says, they're a very neutral receiver, but people are used to speakers "coloring" the sound, then I know what they're saying and think I'd rather target a quality speaker and learn to like "good".

And that's the other thing. I'm saying the center seemed "thin" in a specific case. But seasoned reviewersare critically listening and saying these speakers do a good job of sound reproduction. So I have to examine what my perceptions might mean about my listening experience, environment, and expectations from 30 years of low-quality speakers

 

[gene c]

When people say the MBS speakers are e.g. too "laid back", I realize I have no idea what they're talking about. But when S&V then says, they're a very neutral receiver, but people are used to speakers "coloring" the sound, then I know what they're saying and think I'd rather target a quality speaker and learn to like "good".

Problem is "good" speakers can also sound very different. Axiom's, which are considered very good by many, are also somewhat bright sounding which would be different than a neutral sounding speaker and the exact opposite of laid-back.

I always thought I preferred a brighter sounding speaker but then realized a softer, warmer sound is what I really liked. I once read where a professional musician liked a very bright speaker because it was more like a live performance, which may very well be true, but I just couldn't listen to that bright of a sound for very long.

I'm not so sure learning to like what is perceived to be a good sound is the way to go, but I understand what you are saying. Still, I think figuring out what type of sound you really like, soft and warm (Infinity, Aperion, Energy), neutral (SVS, Theil $$$, Polk LSi), a tad on the brighter side (Swan, Paradigm, Axiom) or really bright (Klipsch, Polk RTi's, maybe Axiom again?)* and buying a speaker to match is better than trying to learn to like what is supposed to be good. Besides, Audyssey is going to do everything it can to make whatever speaker you have sound the way it thinks they should .

I'm glad you had the chance to listen to the MTS's. Even if you decide to go with the Paradigms at least you won't wonder what might have been.

 

[DaveF]

The dilemma now is the MTS 5.1 set is simply outside my planned budget. Shipping is the primary culprit: that $200 takes me beyond even my typical 10% exceed-the-budget stretch. I've found I can make a Paradigm 5.0 system plus an SVS sub that squeaks in $9 over my nominal budget. That's tempting. Or I wait. See if household upgrade priorities change. See what April brings in raises, bonuses, and layoffs. I'm sure I'm now preaching to the choir

Listening to other speakers: I agree generally that it's good to find what sounds good to you. Even then, the limitations in finding what sounds good are severe when you're listening to different systems days or weeks apart in different rooms with different amplification systems. I remain frustrated that I can't do even crude AB comparisons of speakers. Well, if I could allocate a few hundred to shipping and restocking fees with the various companies...but then I couldn't buy the desired system, having burned my budget on demo costs.

The SVS kit sounded great to me. If I hadn't done this demo, I'd have merrily bought Paradigm this week, likely with a blind purchase of an SVS sub. But no, I had to hear an exceptional home demo of SVS and throw my whole decision making process into disarray!

As I emailed my SVS friend: he's a dangerous man, having introduced me to true quality audio.

 

[Ed Moxley]

As I emailed my SVS friend: he's a dangerous man, having introduced me to true quality audio.

He may can get them for you with free shipping, if you explain your circumstances. They may not want to miss a sale, over shipping.............. Bring it up by asking if he knows if they'll be doing a "free shipping" promo anytime soon? Don't hurt to ask. All he can say is no.

 

[DaveF]

They've done free shipping before? I understand it as not available currently. An unconventional approach was considered to reduce shipping costs, but it didn't work out.

Originally Posted by gene c .

I had in mind to respond more directly to your comments gene, as they relate to my current views of shopping and getting good quality items. First, I've adopted a follow-the-herd approach lately, to more easily identify the right product. This was highly successful when buying a digital audio player: iPod was the dominant product so I chose an iPod. With speakers, this relates in the sense of going to stores and seeing what salespeople recommend and seeing what expert reviews and online folks like. This is not nearly as clear cut as buying an iPod, but it helps some.

As for learning to like what's "right", I liken it to movies. People might prefer to have their screen filled, and so wanting pan-and-scan or cropped films. But it's better to learn to enjoy movies the "right" way: in original aspect ratio. I followed this in buying a TV as well: understanding that TVs are commonly in an overly bright, over-saturated display at the store so I didn't buy based on initial appearance. And followed recommendations to dial down the display to a more subdued but more accurate settings.

Finally, with speakers, I understand it's possible to find, say, "bright" speakers more sparkly and attractive for the few minutes listening at the store. But once home, listening for prolonged periods will become fatiguing. A more "correct" set may not be as "wow" in a brief demo, but will ultimately be more pleasant and enjoyable over the long term.

But this, I suppose, is my particular rationalizing. We all have our idiosyncratic way of making purchasing decisions. These are mine