How long will it be before Buffy(tv series) goes Blu? (1 Viewer)

[Nick Martin]

Buffy isn't like Star Trek, where its got decades of fandom and money thrown around, and sheer size of that audience was enough for Paramount (or CBS, I'm not sure which) to spend the cash on fully restoring the original series and releasing it - in 4:3 - on Blu.

I ask this question: We all know the INTENDED AR is 4:3. We all know the UK sets for seasons 4 through 7 are opened up and reveal things that shouldn't be seen, and ANGEL seasons 1 and 2 are the same way.

Knowing all of this, and knowing Whedon's preferences, my question is simply could FOX release the show in its OAR on Blu-ray and have it be a justifiable upgrade for the fanbase out there, who may not be as deeply concerned about AR presentations and the like? Sense it is indeed all about money, some people might not see it as worth the upgrade if it wasn't significantly different, be it AR or something else, to want to buy it on Blu-ray.

ANGEL is obviously a bit easier to deal with, since it's only two seasons that would be modified for widescreen and hence have errors at the sides.

For me personally, if the "previously on" recaps continue to be absent from any and all releases, including any potential Blu-ray releases of either show, I won't bother getting them. I fully understand why some people are glad they aren't there because of how redundant they are, but I enjoy them and some episodes aren't complete with them gone.

ANGEL looks fantastic on DVD, especially upscaled. I won't buy incomplete episodes of either show again. I mentioned in another thread that I've been restoring the recaps for ANGEL, and I'm having a good time doing that. Season 1 in wide is kind of funny at times, with secondary cameras, invisible objects (that still make sounds!) and other 'goodies' in the edges.

 

[Douglas Monce]

Originally Posted by Nicholas Martin

Buffy isn't like Star Trek, where its got decades of fandom and money thrown around, and sheer size of that audience was enough for Paramount (or CBS, I'm not sure which) to spend the cash on fully restoring the original series and releasing it - in 4:3 - on Blu.

I ask this question: We all know the INTENDED AR is 4:3. We all know the UK sets for seasons 4 through 7 are opened up and reveal things that shouldn't be seen, and ANGEL seasons 1 and 2 are the same way.

Knowing all of this, and knowing Whedon's preferences, my question is simply could FOX release the show in its OAR on Blu-ray and have it be a justifiable upgrade for the fanbase out there, who may not be as deeply concerned about AR presentations and the like? Sense it is indeed all about money, some people might not see it as worth the upgrade if it wasn't significantly different, be it AR or something else, to want to buy it on Blu-ray.

ANGEL is obviously a bit easier to deal with, since it's only two seasons that would be modified for widescreen and hence have errors at the sides.

For me personally, if the "previously on" recaps continue to be absent from any and all releases, including any potential Blu-ray releases of either show, I won't bother getting them. I fully understand why some people are glad they aren't there because of how redundant they are, but I enjoy them and some episodes aren't complete with them gone.

ANGEL looks fantastic on DVD, especially upscaled. I won't buy incomplete episodes of either show again. I mentioned in another thread that I've been restoring the recaps for ANGEL, and I'm having a good time doing that. Season 1 in wide is kind of funny at times, with secondary cameras, invisible objects (that still make sounds!) and other 'goodies' in the edges.

Its really not a matter of 4x3 vs 16x9. The real issue is that the show was edited on 480i video. The entire show's original camera negative would have to be re scanned at HD resolution. This would be about 3 to 5 hours of film for each episode. Then the original edit logs (if they still exist) would have to be consulted to figure out which takes of each shot where used and for how many frames. Then each effect shot would have to be completely re created from scratch.

Considering the amount of time it took to redo Star Trek TOS, a show like Buffy might take longer, and be more expensive than it was to shoot and edit the show in the first place. I think its fairly unlikely that this will happen.


Doug

 

[Nick Martin]

And I'm guessing it wouldn't be considered worth the upgrade to Blu-ray for most customers who have the show on DVD.

Not unless it were significantly different compared to those DVDs, and that goes beyond resolution.

We already know about the whole "rescanning original elements" issues, and that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a simple, practical idea of is it worth it for fans of the show - the fans who aren't on forums like this dedicated to High Definition, Aspect Ratios and the like because they just enjoy the shows on their own merits and aren't too concerned with these things. There are more of "them" then there are of "us", and I suspect the DVDs that have been out for years now are more than good enough in that case.

 

[Bryan^H]

Originally Posted by Nicholas Martin

And I'm guessing it wouldn't be considered worth the upgrade to Blu-ray for most customers who have the show on DVD.

Not unless it were significantly different compared to those DVDs, and that goes beyond resolution.

We already know about the whole "rescanning original elements" issues, and that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a simple, practical idea of is it worth it for fans of the show - the fans who aren't on forums like this dedicated to High Definition, Aspect Ratios and the like because they just enjoy the shows on their own merits and aren't too concerned with these things. There are more of "them" then there are of "us", and I suspect the DVDs that have been out for years now are more than good enough in that case.

Good point. It will probably never happen, but I can picture new season sets(standard dvd) with all new features being released somewhere down the line. That does seem very likely.
Switching gears now, what do you think the chances of Star Trek TNG getting a Blu-Ray upgrade? The only reason I ask, is Paramount is pretty diligent with their Star Trek releases. If there is a way, they will do it.

 

[Worth]

I suspect that whether this series - and most mid-80s to early 2000s shows - gets the HD treatment has as much to do with its syndication value as with its home video prospects.

Seinfeld has started popping up in HD - and that had to undergo a full re-transfer and re-edit - because it continues to sell well in syndication, not because the studio figured that blu-ray sales would justify the expense of remastering the show in hi-def.

 

[Nick Martin]

Seinfeld....now THERE'S a case of Aspect Ratio being an issue - a huge issue with the HD broadcasts!

That being said, it does look pretty damn good but outside the appeal (or detriment) of the modified presentation, the existing Seinfeld DVDs - like the Buffy DVDs - may be good enough as it is. Some shows lend themselves to an HD presentation more than others, which is why I personally wouldn't ever pick up some of those recent sitcom releases on Blu-ray unless the prices were the same as the DVDs, because seeing something like a "How I Met Your Mother" on Blu-ray wouldn't make any difference to me. I wouldn't see a point in paying a premium for it over standard widescreen DVD. I suppose it would help to ensure that more shows are released in HD to get something like that, though. To each their own.

 

[Alan Tully]

It was unbelievable how short sighted Joss Whedon was about 16.9, why was he so in love with 4x3?. For the 16mm series he should have used super 16, you can get great results. As I see it, if Fox want to go HD, then they're going to have to dig out all the original negs & scan (or telecine) them to HD & remake the programs (they should still have the EDL lists), &...re-do all the effects HD. Seeing as how Fox has given up on archive movies, I wouldn't hold your breath.

The same goes for Star Trek TNG (Paramount).

 

[Douglas Monce]

Originally Posted by Bryan^H




Good point. It will probably never happen, but I can picture new season sets(standard dvd) with all new features being released somewhere down the line. That does seem very likely.
Switching gears now, what do you think the chances of Star Trek TNG getting a Blu-Ray upgrade? The only reason I ask, is Paramount is pretty diligent with their Star Trek releases. If there is a way, they will do it.

They did an "Uprez" of the Trials and Tribulations episode of DS9 on the second season blu-ray set of TOS. It looks horrible. Frankly playing the original episode off of the DS9 set looks better.

Honestly I don't know about the Star Trek shows from TNG to Voyager. This would be HUGELY expensive and as I said before, would likely take longer than it did to create the shows in the first place. I'm not sure that such a project would be profitable for Paramount.

Doug

 

[Nick Martin]

Originally Posted by Billy Batson

It was unbelievable how short sighted Joss Whedon was about 16.9, why was he so in love with 4x3?

This is Joss Whedon's answer, and it's not shortsighted at all:

IGNFF: Did it surprise you the reaction that the lack of widescreen for Buffy season four on DVD got here in the U.S.?

WHEDON: People were upset, right? I haven't seen the season four package ... it contains a disclaimer from me as to why it's not in widescreen, that I wrote. It's on it, it comes with it. It's not a widescreen show. We shot it in a TV ratio, and I am very, very specific with the way I frame things. To arbitrarily throw – and I love widescreen, but Buffy was never a widescreen show. It was an intimate, TV-shaped show. To arbitrarily throw wider borders on it, to make it more cinematic when I very specifically framed it. Think of "The Body" – the episode "The Body"...

IGNFF: Right, which I've seen in widescreen and full frame...

WHEDON: How could you have seen it in widescreen?

IGNFF: The U.K. sets are in widescreen.

WHEDON: Good. See, that is not the way I framed it. That's not the way it was meant to be seen, and therefore that's not the way I shot it. I'm preserving what I shot. The DVD is there to preserve what we made, for eternity. What we made, very specifically, was a certain shape. So I'm sure there'll be widescreen copies and there'll be arguments about what's better, but I'm not interested in – and I mean, I love widescreen. I'm a widescreen fanatic, when something's wide. When it's not, then I want to see it the way it was meant to be seen.

IGNFF: Were you not consulted for the U.K. sets?

WHEDON: No, I was not. Buffy was never widescreen. Angel is, Firefly was – and was not aired that way. That'll be nice, that it can be shown the way it was meant to be seen. For me, Buffy is a different animal.

Source:

http://movies.ign.com/articles/425/425492p10.html

 

[Alan Tully]

I still think he was short sighted, why no go the whole hog & do it in b/w & mono, but that's a done deal now. Will Fox put in the money to go HD, I don't think so, which is a shame as it was a great show, but those early series look so poor, & as people get used to HD & new shows, they're just going to look worse & worse.

 

[Jesse Blacklow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Batson

I still think he was short sighted, why no go the whole hog & do it in b/w & mono, but that's a done deal now. Will Fox put in the money to go HD, I don't think so, which is a shame as it was a great show, but those early series look so poor, & as people get used to HD & new shows, they're just going to look worse & worse.

I fail to see how an actual artistic decision that had everything to do with composition of characters and scenes and nothing to do with technology can be considered "short-sighted." It's obvious that he wasn't doing it because he was constrained by 1.33:1 TVs. I mean, come on: the man says he's a "widescreen fanatic," even!

 

[Bryan^H]

With the announcement of the 20th Anniversary complete collection on DVD later this year I knew that Fox would skip a BD release. They know how stunningly terrible the HD version is.
It seems they will never go back and get Buffy remastered in HD again, and just accept the hatchet job they paid for initially.

The fans are the ones that lose. Severely botched HD series to purchase, or stream and only available SD to purchase on disc. What an honest to goodness shame.

 

[jcroy]

Does Buffy currently have any legitimate HD transfers? (Whether in fullscreen or widescreen).

ie. Such as in syndication reruns.

 

[Bryan^H]

Does Buffy currently have any legitimate HD transfers? (Whether in fullscreen or widescreen).

ie. Such as in syndication reruns.

No, just one HD transfer for the complete series and it is an absolute nightmare. The standard definition is better by far.

NOTE: This thread was created before there was a TV on BD section. Moderator can you move to TV DVD, and BD section?

 

[jcroy]

No, just one HD transfer for the complete series and it is an absolute nightmare. The standard definition is better by far.

What exactly was horrible about the current HD transfer?

I've never seen it myself.

 

[Bryan^H]

Here you go:



HD on right


I can't stress enough how bad the DNR is, it actually robs the video image of detail and makes the actors look like melted wax mannequins. Horrific.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Its really not a matter of 4x3 vs 16x9. The real issue is that the show was edited on 480i video. The entire show's original camera negative would have to be re scanned at HD resolution. This would be about 3 to 5 hours of film for each episode. Then the original edit logs (if they still exist) would have to be consulted to figure out which takes of each shot where used and for how many frames. Then each effect shot would have to be completely re created from scratch.

Another challenge is that "Star Trek: The Next Generation" was shot on 35mm film on well-lit sets with a really large production budget. The first two seasons of "Buffy" were shot on 16mm film in low-light environments, with lots and lots of really grainy footage.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

Being active in Buffy fandom, we went through a whole dramarama about this. The show was framed and filmed for 4:3, and when forced to 16:9 there is visible crew and equipment... cast members standing there waiting for their cues to walk into frame... awesome stuff like that.

Unfortunately, the bad remasters are also the version that got put out for streaming.

If you have the standard def DVD sets, cherish them.

 

[The Obsolete Man]

What exactly was horrible about the current HD transfer?

I've never seen it myself.

Buffy is the poster child for people who want shows to be in their original aspect ratio and the best example to use to show people how stupid it is to have to have every pixel on their teevee box filled because the black bars steal their soul or something.

 

[Bryan^H]

Being active in Buffy fandom, we went through a whole dramarama about this. The show was framed and filmed for 4:3, and when forced to 16:9 there is visible crew and equipment... cast members standing there waiting for their cues to walk into frame... awesome stuff like that.

Unfortunately, the bad remasters are also the version that got put out for streaming.

If you have the standard def DVD sets, cherish them.

And it has not been announced yet, but I guarantee you the new complete series DVD set will be sourced from the new remastered HD version...only in standard definition
And for those wondering how bad it can possibly be, check out a season 2 episode preview on ITunes, like say "Inca Mummy Girl".

Stare in mind numbing awe at the cropped fake widescreen zoom in lose info microwaved digitized particle floating yet heavy Waxy DNR'd Hazy smoked picture quality that Fox will be pushing on unsuspecting victims this Fall.