How long do tapes and DVDs last? Seems like my VHS collection is going to hell... (1 Viewer)

[mike kaminski]

According to an article in the NY Times today, a new report finds that half of DVDs will become rotted after 15 years...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/23/bu...=1&oref=slogin

 

[Jon Martin]

Some from around 3 years ago. I've been afraid to check more. There is nothing worse than that error message.

 

[Viper]

So what the hell are we all supposed to do once all the VHS versions of certain movies have deteriorated into garbage and so many of them still aren't available to us in any other format? The studios should make every movie in existance available for DVD/HD special order, even if it's expensive. I'd gladly pay $50 or more for proper DVD transfer of a few of these titles. I don't want commentary. I don't want behind the scenes shit. I don't need fancy menus. I just want the movies. Maybe the ones that are currently available would cost less if the releases were more barebones for those of us that only care about the movie.

 

[Tim Tucker]

I'm interested in how the Academy came to that conclusion.

 

[troy evans]

deleted

 

[Jeff Willis]

I have several (TV) series of DVD-R's and I was curious if you guys here know the reason that any DVD-R's would "rot" or otherwise be rendered unwatchable after only 2-3 years. Since it's an optical media with no wear pertaining to multiple play-back, why would this be happening? Is it due to the quality differences between brands of blank DVD-R's, or due to the inherant mfg process of all blank DVD's, or due to using a lower-end DVR for recording? I guess I'm one of the consumers that thought an optical media such as DVD's were immune to any kind of "shelf-life" phenomenon.

The oldest DVD-R's that I have are less than 2 yrs so I have no database of time to measure yet.

 

[Bryan^H]

I found way more information than I needed simply by doing a Google search with the heading"dvd archival life".

Most reports for dvd-r's state a 30-200 year lifespan for dvd-r's(depending on proper storage, climate conditions) and most importantly the main info I found most helpful: DVD-R manufacturers are improving discs all the time(Kodak gold discs are supposedly the best dvd-r/+r around).

I know of bad dvd-r disc problem, because I have finalized many that have failed, but I think I will wait a year until the dvd-r format is at it's zenith in quality, buy the best discs available, and start transferring.

As far as normal dvd's lifespan, when I parted with my laserdisc collection a few years ago, 98% of close to 100 laserdiscs still played flawlessly, and many were 15-22 years old. Being that laserdisc is an inferior medium to dvd
I have no worries whatsoever about dvd, and I think those who are worried should relax.

 

[Bryan^H]

Jeff, if you research it, I'm sure you will feel better. Read my above post. Proper storage, and well manufacturerd dvd-r's are the main reason why dvd-r can succeed, and last a lifetime.

 

[SilverWook]

VHS tapes were simply better made in the 80's. (Beta too!) Scotch made some good ones, (a few studios touted that their releases were recorded on Scotch videotape) but they exited the market in early 90's, IIRC.

For some reason nearly every CBS/Fox title I ever owned on VHS back then seemed to use the worst tape stock around! Terrible tracking, dropouts by the second play, you name it...

Circa 1994, I started having all sorts of dropout problems with brands I had sworn by for years. I even found dead bugs inside a factory sealed tape! I suspect that the manufacturing was beginning to be outsourced by then. Just like with DVD-R's now, the brand name is meaningless as it's likely made by a third party.

VHS tapes also got lighter, these sometimes get stuck in my decks during the load/eject cycle. Heat welds have replaced screws, so if I ever needed to salavage a damaged tape by transplanting the reels, I'd have to cut the shell open somehow!

Laserdisc rot all had to do with sloppy manufacture at certain plants. The one that pressed many a defective Sony/Columbia title is legendary! A properly made disc won't rot. If your LD's haven't rotted by now, they're likely safe.

What I worry about most is having working gear to play anything back years from now...

 

[Jon Martin]

What I find interesting is that, while I've had several DVD-Rs fail on me, I still watch a lot of VHS and really don't see THAT much of a problem. I have 25 year old tapes that are still watchable. I may have to adjust the tracking, but they can be watched. I think I've had more DVDs fail than VHS that have become unwatchable.

I think there is a different between "DVD Rot" and DVDs that just fail to be able to be read. I was also into lasers, and saw the infamous laser rot many times. But, I never had a laser fail, and not be able to be read, the way that DVD-R's can be.

And it isn't just DVD-R's. Many of Anchor Bays pressings from a few years back (HEATHERS, KENTUCKY FRIED MOVIE) also failed completely.

 

[MielR]

I've also noticed that VHS tapes used to be heavier- a peek inside shows the metal parts they used to use have been replaced with cheap plastic parts. So far my VHS tapes from as far back as the mid-80s have held up extremely well.

I have to say that I get nervous whenever someone talks about how their CDs from the 80s are rotting- some of mine are over 20 years old, but (so far) I haven't noticed any problems. I do have some Laserdisc-rot problems, though. I bought a used Star Wars LD set a while back (a set notorious for rot) and it did have quite a bit of rot on one of the discs, a bit less on a few of the others.

I also have one DVD-R that refused to finalize after I'd recorded a movie on it a few months before, but so far that's the only (knock wood) problem I've had with those. I try to stick with TDK and Sony discs, as (last I checked) their discs seem to be of better quality.
I haven't seen those anywhere, but that's good to know. Mobile Fidelity's "ULTRADISC" gold CD-Rs are also supposed to be wonderful (albeit expensive).
Ultradisc™ 24 KT Gold CD-R (each) 650 mb - Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab, Inc.

 

[Viper]

Another problem I'm seeing lately is tapes that black screen while playing. The screen just goes black for a second here and there while playing. Is that due to some other minor hiccup and the receiver/HDTV just perceives it as a signal dropout or what?

 

[Radioman970]

Very helpful thread. I have a bunch of home movie VHS tapes that start from 1989. I've been trying to convert them for about 5 years. I noticed some "fluttering" moments. Luckily that is rare on the first few I've done. I got a new VCR just in case my very old Sony is the culprit. Heck, my thought is it's not the Sony at all. Anyway, I used Verbatim DVD-R on the first 4 and they have been working just fine on all of my family's varied DVD equipments. Not sure if they'll last. I'm going to put all 20+ tapes on a hard drive. I'll most likely keep them backed up on newer and newer hard drives over the years and make DVD versions every now and then too. I'll keep those tapes for as long as they last too, unplayed outside of digitizing. Those memories are too damn important.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

I agreee with this assessment but would side with recording to a hard drive and making backup DVDs on the basis of cost. External hard drives ranging in size from 40GB to 1TB are continuing to come down in price and will inevitably be cheaper than trying to store everything on DV cassettes. What I've actually been doing is using a Pinnacle Dazzle to transfer all my VHS to my 250 GB external hard drive. It does an outboard conversion to MPEG-2, which admittedly is compressed, but I have a certain degree of control over the compression.

Frankly, the comparison of DVD-Rs to pressed DVD media is apples and oranges. Pressed DVDs will last longer because of the nature of the media. DVD-Rs will inherently fail sooner because the data is ink-based rather than pit-based. Here, we can successfully compare recordable CD media because it suffers from the same issue. Ink fades; pits do not, so arguably the best way to store VHS is to use a hard drive and back it up on a regular basis.

 

[Viper]

That's about what I intend to do with the movies in my collection that aren't available on DVD. I hope to have an HD-DVD burner eventually to backup TV shows, and edit out the crappy replacement themes on certain series in the process.

 

[Chris Roberts]

Rot shouldn't be a problem with DVD's so much because they have less metal in them than LD's and manufacturing processes have improved over time. That being said, a cheap disc (bootlegs and promotionals especially) probably uses cheap glue and therefore is more likely to not work later on.

Also, don't bend your discs at all. Like when some keepcases have the discs so tightly secured in you practically have to bend the disc to get it off that center holder. A disc (CD, LD, DVD, whatever) is layered plastic with stuff in between. When you bend one you can separate the layers enough for oxygen to get inside which will cause rot.

 

[mike kaminski]

This is kind of overlapping with the "Digital Restorations Fade" thread, but as is discussed there, this method is as impermanent as DVD-R's, and much more expensive. Aside from issues of random (or non-random) data corruption, hard drives usually last 5 years, and thats an optimistic figure, which is probably less than a DVD-R. They make for nice a backup if you want to be extra-safe but I would say the best protection is hard-copy (not to mention the much lower cost of re-buying blank media every few years instead of a whole hard-drive).

 

[Viper]

Wasn't there some talk years ago of DVDs that would somehow stop working after only a few days or a few playbacks? I thought I heard mention of using something like that with movies that are still in theaters, like as a form of rental without ever having to return the disc. I might be totally losing it, but I could've sworn it was actually talked about on TV one time.

 

[mike kaminski]

DIVX. Ugh.

 

[mylan]

Yes, DIVX, a Circuit City and their attorney's idea, a business model that almost caused them to go out of business. It was a competing format to DVD that you could "rent" a movie and when you inserted the disc, you had 48 hours to view it, after which it would self destruct. You would then toss it. Thank God it never caught on. I still to this day cannot walk into a C.C. because of it.