Holy Grail of "lost" films (1 Viewer)

[ljgranberry]

THE LOTUS EATER (1921) A shipwrecked aviator finds romance on an exotic remote island. It was considered by many contemporaries as John Barrymore's finest performance.
GREED (1924) Of course, the 5 hours plus version. There is an old rumor has it actually may exist somewhere in Argentina as a 35mm print that a formerly well-to-do family owned and would only rarely screen for visiting friends. The owner was said to be a dear friend of Von Stroheim's.
THE LOST FILMS OF THEDA BARA All presumed long ago lost, except for a print of CLEOPATRA (1917) that passed through the hands of Henri Langlois in the 1940's. He passed on buying it, reasoning that the Americans must have had a print somewhere in their vaults.
THE PRIVATE LIFE OF HELEN OF TROY (1927) A lost Alexander Korda silent epic which starred Maria Corda as Helena and Ricardo Cortez as Paris.
NEPTUNE'S DAUGHTER (1914) Exotic mythological fantasy featuring beautiful mermaid, Annette Kellerman, whose famous nude scene is documented in one surviving still.

Also, there are two I'd love to see that exist but have had no release I'm aware of:
THE WOMAN GOD FORGOT (1917) Wild early DeMille epic about Montezuma's daughter, played by Geraldine Farrar who falls in love with a young Spanish soldier.
A KISS FOR CINDERELLA (1926) Anyone who loved Betty Bronson in PETER PAN would probably enjoy this filmed James Barrie play with the Cinderella story set during WWI. Considered by many as a silent masterpiece. Eastman House has it. Somebody please get it.

Ed, I hope that someday before I shuffle off this mortal coil, if it does in fact exist, that you are correct, and the complete GREED does exist in the hands of someone who will restore and release it.

 

[Jari K]

Any "newer" lost films? From the 60s,70s...? Even after that?

 

[classicmovieguy]

Thanks for the reminder. Because of your post I clicked on the link and read it. Fascinating look at the world of private film collectors and their relationships with the studios and with restoration people. There are probably many more stories like this that simply won't see the light of day because the collectors won't talk. This is a rare case of someone talking to someone in that world and sharing the conversation. The question I have is why Joe Caps revealed so much and allowed it to be attributed to him. How does that impact his relationship with the collector in question?

If the article was correct its doubly-infuriating because the collector in question has worked with Liza Minnelli (on the restoration of "Liza with a Z"), so you'd think Ms Minnelli could wield some clout and bring the collector back to negotiations.

 

[Miguel M Santos]

I think all of those in my list have already been mentioned. The silents and CONVENTION CITY probably top the list.

2. The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes (1970) Directed by Billy Wilder. Wilder's masterpiece, cut by the studio upon it's initial premiere. Doubtful it exists in a complete form, but I continue to hold out hope.

3. The Magnificent Ambersons (1942) Directed by Orson Welles. The Holy Grail of lost film holy grails.

Joseph L. Mankiewicz's six hour director's cut of Cleopatra (1963).

Well Greta Garbo's 1928 film THE DIVINE WOMAN would be a great find; only a 9 minute segment exists.

The (really) complete A STAR IS BORN from 1954, without those stills, would be great to see as well.

A complete print of Borzhege's 'The River'
Murnau's '4 Devil's
'Convention City'

 

[Vic Pardo]

Any "newer" lost films? From the 60s,70s...? Even after that?

John Landis supposedly did a three-hour-plus cut of BLUES BROTHERS (1980) and that he had envisioned it as a MAD WORLD-type epic action comedy. I'm a fan of the film and wouldn't mind seeing a longer version at all. I do have a VHS copy that supposedly offers a longer (but not by much) version than the theatrical cut, but my one viewing of it didn't yield anything that looked new to me. I've been meaning to re-watch the theatrical cut and this VHS copy back-to-back to determine what the differences are. Just haven't done it yet.

 

[SilverWook]

The original cut of The Black Cauldron (1985), before the new regime at Disney took some scissors to it. There are cels around from the excised shots. Hopefully, the footage still exists.

With the 30th anniversary next year, it would be nice if Disney could be comfortable with letting people see it as the animators intended.

 

[Andrew Budgell]

I've never heard of the Cleopatra rumor, sounds too good to be true tho I'd love to be wrong.

For a long time I also thought it was a too-good-to-be-true rumour, but it's mentioned in the featurette "Cleopatra's Missing Footage" from the recent 50th Anniversary Blu-ray release, so there's apparently some veracity. It's supposedly a black and white work print of the film. I want to find out who's got it so I can go steal it. I'm willing to take one for the team.

 

[CinemaCynic]

GREED (1924) Of course, the 5 hours plus version. There is an old rumor has it actually may exist somewhere in Argentina as a 35mm print that a formerly well-to-do family owned and would only rarely screen for visiting friends. The owner was said to be a dear friend of Von Stroheim's.

I know Kevin Brownlow chased down every rumor back in the 80's (and thereafter) but this one is such a crock just on the face of it.

For one thing it was only screened in its longest form once, privately and never distributed at that length. The Rex Ingram edit of some 3hrs-ish had a higher probability of survival, but Brownlow's research had unearthed some paperwork of reel after reel of something labeled 'McTeague' melted down by MGM for their silver nitrate back in the 40's (this is from memory, an intro he gave to a screening Greed with David Gill in the early 90's).

Ingram had some very real credibility at MGM, if he chose to call a favor from the MGM lab and have a dupe made (HIGHLY unlikely) its the only way it could have survived. Stroheim had no ability whatsoever to call in a favor for wealthy friends, just utter nonsense.

That Metropolis turned up in Argentina is oddly a bit logical given the German ex-pat community that's been robust there forever and certainly its possible that if the purported 'work print' of Amberson's that Welles was supposed to have screened in Brazil while making 'It's All True' has at least a 'snowball's' chance of turning up down there. As much as I love hearing 'Greed' fairy tales, its gone. Only if someone stole it or stole a dupe from MGM's own lab in the 20's (wish there were such a clever thief!) does it have any hope of survival in a longer form than currently available. And even then it would likely have deteriorated in someone's shed, garage or basement by now, long since forgotten.

Poor Von and his 'mangled child.'

 

[Michael Elliott]

Any "newer" lost films? From the 60s,70s...? Even after that?

There are a handful, which you can see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lost_films

From that list of newer titles, Bob Clark's THE EMPEROR'S NEW CLOTHES with John Carradine is one I'd like to see, although I'm sure it's horrid.

D.W. Griffith's few lost films are obviously ones I'd like to see someday (as well as the hundreds yet to see a legit release).

The lost work of Melies.

Of current, semi-lost movies, as a horror fan I'd really like to see the various cut footage of movies butchered by the MPAA, although I think LONDON AFTER MIDNIGHT turning up is probably more likely.

 

[CinemaCynic]

There are a handful, which you can see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lost_films

Nice fwd, thx for the link.

'Gogola' sounds awesomely awful.

'The Promise' must survive somewhere, I saw it on tv when I was a kid. My mother still talks about it. I'll email someone involved in the film and see if he's even aware its missing.

 

[Alan Tully]

Actually, Rozsa *did* score the "Upside-Down Room" segment. The surviving audio that is included on the supplements reveal totally original underscoring for this part, as well as a longer version of the Main Title (incorporating more of his Violin Concerto) and also some cues covering the train sequence with the Sicilian singing teacher. So if footage for that part were found, then it could be put back in the film with the final mixed audio that survives.

Yup, found the Rozsa interview, spread over two issues of Films & Filming, May & June 1977, conducted by Derek Elley. You're quite right, Rozsa talks about how good the cut sequences were, & how they should never have been cut. That's the episode on the ship & the upside-down room. The last question: Had you written any music before they cut the film? Not too much. The ship episode had no music at all.

 

[Richard M S]

Thanks Classicmovieguy for posting that article about A Star Is Born and the other missing MGM musical numbers. So much footage has emerged in recent years that I have no doubt we will revisit this great thread in years to come as some of these missing gems re-emerge.

I do harbor several fears though, which are as follows: once the hoarders eventually move to that great movie palace in the sky, whoever goes through their stuff will not recognize the value and just dump it, or it will be deteriorated beyond repair.

I also am assuming (and hoping) that if and when some of these films do emerge, there will be a corporation, or film preservation foundation, willing to spend the money to restore and properly release it.

 

[Moe Dickstein]

Extended "Blues Brothers" runs 2 hours 28, adding 15 mins to the theatrical version. It's been released both on DVD and Blu, the Blu containing both versions.

 

[Vic Pardo]

Extended "Blues Brothers" runs 2 hours 28, adding 15 mins to the theatrical version. It's been released both on DVD and Blu, the Blu containing both versions.

Wasn't aware of that. (How did that go under my radar?) Thanks!

 

[Doug Bull]

The lost 3D print of the Broadway Musical "TOP BANANA"

 

[Dave MJ]

Great thread! For truly "lost" films, I go with London After Midnight. For "partially" lost, the original King Kong's spider pit sequence and the complete, uncut House of Dark Shadows.

And Night of Dark Shadows, which was really butchered. Much of the footage was found and I believe some of the actors even re-dubbed some of their lines. But none of the footage was included on the blu-ray release.

 

[Doug Bull]

Drawing a long bow, but a complete "GOLD DIGGERS OF BROADWAY" would make this member jump for joy.

Doug.

 

[AnthonyClarke]

Abel Gance's 'Napoleon' with the long-lost 3-D footage.

 

[Brian McP]

There is also supposed to be an alternate version of "Being There" (1979), directed by Hal Ashby -- completely different alternate takes and performances of (supposedly) the entire movie, all shot on video.

When the bluray of the movie was released a few years ago, some hoped that this might be part of this package as a special feature.

As the movie was made in early 1979, the surviving tapes may be as bad a state as the surviving materials of "The Alamo" -- don't know if was owned by the production company or Hal Ashby's estate or private collectors.

 

[Stefan Andersson]

Wasn't aware of that. (How did that go under my radar?) Thanks!

For more info about the longer Blues Brothers, go to: http://www.bluesbrotherscentral.com/forum/topic/2047-sink-the-bismarck/
(includes a dead link to three recovered music numbers cut from the film - active links, see below)

The footage on the extended DVD comes from a preview print.

Universal has junked a lot of footage.

Around 2004-2005, some sound track was recovered:

- Sink the Bismarck

- Quando Quando Quando

- Just the Way You Are