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HK AVR-7200 vs HK AVR-525

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Bob Elliott, Oct 9, 2003.

  1. Bob Elliott

    Bob Elliott Active Member

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    For double the price what is the difference? It seems like you are getting another 15Watts per cahnnel and that's about it.

    Also I have a friend that insists that the AVR-525 is not a real 7.1 reciever, it used teh Logic 7 feature to make 7 channels of sound. Is this true? Is true 7 channel sound a feature of the 7200 taht the 525 doesn't have?

    I am asking these questions because I am going to buy a reciever soon. I am going to buy a HK reciever and it is down to these two models. I am wondering why the 7200 is so much more. Is the extra cost justified?

    If you own either or both of these model please let me know how you like them. Also if you had the money to buy either reciever what woudl you do?
     
  2. Steve Adams

    Steve Adams Well-Known Member

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    I think you have to add an external amp on the 525 for true 7.1. could someone confirm this, alos, I would look at other brands, another one of my friends HK's bit the dust! not good quality. Great sound, but not in it for the long term.....
     
  3. Aaron Gilbert

    Aaron Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    The extra price is a puzzler to me, too. I was expecting THX (even if only Select) on the AVR7200, or maybe the great main amp inputs like on the AVR8000, but neither are present. I don't see the benefit over the AVR525, myself.

    As for the 'real 7.1' receiver, that can be a confusing subject. As I understand it, there is currently no consumer source material that has 8 channels. The maximum from a source is only 6.1. So, it seems to me that any receiver claiming 7.1 sound is doing one of three things (someone correct me if I'm wrong here):

    1)Passing (DTS-ES discrete) or matrix decoding (DD-EX 6.1) the surround back channel, then outputting that signal to the surround back left and surround back right speakers/preouts. SBL and SBR thus have identical signals.

    2)Same as (1), except before outputting the signal, perform some kind of DSP on the surround back channel to create two decorrelated signals so that the SBL and SBR are not identical. Should be similar to what THX processing does for Dolby Pro Logic's surrounds.

    3) Using DSP to create the SBL and SBR channels entirely from the other five channels. Could be the same or different.


    I hope that's at least slightly clear. [​IMG]


    Aaron Gilbert
     
  4. Aaron Gilbert

    Aaron Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    Steve,

    Both the AVR525 and AVR7200 have seven channels of amplification on board, so the only amplifier you would need is in your subwoofer, or '.1' channel. The previous series, such as the AVR520 or AVR8000, only had five channel amplifiers on board.


    Aaron Gilbert
     
  5. Greg Thomas

    Greg Thomas Well-Known Member

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    The big differences between the 525 and 7200 are...

    1. Power - 7200 is 100x7, 525 is 70x7
    2. Weight - the 7200 weighs 60lbs while 525 weighs 44lbs
    3. High Current Capability - 75amps for 7200, 45amps for 525, much more power in reserve in the 7200.
    4. 7200 uses torrodial power transformer, whatever that is
    5. No fan in the 7200, 525 has one
    6. 7200 has LCD remote

    The 7200 can be had for $999, I think the 525 goes for about $575 nowadays.

    If I had the money, I'd get the 7200.
     
  6. ChrisLazarko

    ChrisLazarko Well-Known Member

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    Also, the 7200 uses a better processor in it than the other models, the 525 includes the same that all the other HK models include (Crystal) while the 7200 has the (Cirrcus) chip. As well as an LCD remote is always a big PLUS!

    I would definantly get the 7200 for the money, 15watts is a nice added amount of power, and the reciever definantly is worth the money.
     
  7. dale^g

    dale^g Well-Known Member

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  8. Aaron Gilbert

    Aaron Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    I've always been curious about specified current output ratings, whether on receivers or amplifiers. In two channel amplifiers, typically it is specified as X amperes per channel. With a seven channel receiver, is it still per channel, or total? And, what does the +- amperes mean in the rating? Obviously the output is AC current otherwise the speaker would fry, so why add the +- ?

    In either case, it would certainly be much more useful to know either the voltage or speaker impedance at which this maximum output current is generated. Otherwise, it's like trying to run a three legged race on one leg.

    45 amps and 75 amps is one hell of a lot of current for a loudspeaker. I have to assume that is a total, because 45 amps distributed evenly to seven channels, into a highly unusual 2 ohm loudspeaker, equates to roughly 83 watts per speaker. Not that much you say? Well remember that if our speaker was 4 ohms, the same current would give you twice as much power. And most people use eight ohm speakers, so now our 45 amps total (6.43A/ch), gives a monstrous 331 watts per channel! And this is only the AVR525. For an 8 ohm speaker using the same math on the AVR7200, I come out with 918 watts per channel. Yikes!

    So, where exactly do these current ratings come from?

    The way I see it, either these receivers are seriously underrated (as in by a factor of 5 or more on the power output spec), or they can drive a ridiculously low impedance speaker. By my calculations, under 2 ohms for the AVR525, under 1 ohm for the AVR7200. Or, the current capability does not refer to the output stages.

    This is not a knock on HK by any means, just curiosity about the ratings.


    Aaron Gilbert
     
  9. dale^g

    dale^g Well-Known Member

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    i'm a big HK fan and they are some powerful receivers but there is no way in hell ANY receiver can push a 2 OHM load much less a 1 OHM load. i don't know exactly what the amp rating means except that the more amps the more reserve power (headroom) there is. remember, it's instantanious power and not RMS.
     
  10. Aaron Gilbert

    Aaron Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    I can see that it certainly could be the instantaneous, otherwise known as dynamic, power. A couple companies in the 80's and 90's had some very high dynamic headroom amplifiers and receivers, namely NAD and Proton. NAD I believe called it 'Power Envelope', while Proton used Dynamic Power on Demand, or DPD. Either could deliver 6 dB higher dynamic power than the RMS rating, which equates to four times the RMS power output. The standard IHF tests measure this using a 20 ms tone burst. Both these manufacturers claimed at least dynamic power into two ohm loads, as does Yamaha even today, so I don't rule out the possibility of receivers driving a two ohm load. Whether it can be done continously would depend on just how efficient your speakers are and how loud you like it. [​IMG]

    I suspect there still may be products on the market capable of this kind of headroom. My question would be though, if the HK's are such a product, why wouldn't they advertise it? Surely stating the dynamic power as four times the continuous would be more impressive than saying it's capable of 45 amperes?


    Aaron Gilbert
     
  11. Jason Brent

    Jason Brent Well-Known Member

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    I didn't know the 7200 didn't have a fan.

    If it doesn't, this is a big deal, since the 525's fan is noisy. At first I didn't seem to notice it, but I do now. Especially at lower volume levels.....it is VERY distracting.

    I love the sound of this receiver, though. I'm hoping to add outboard amplification sometime next year. Hopefully it will calm down that fan.
     
  12. AndrewKC

    AndrewKC Active Member

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    Jason, if you want a relatively cheap fix for the fan, what I have is 2 panaflo 80 mm computer fans (21dB at 12V) set above my receiver to blow across the top of it. Using an AC-DC adaptor, I set the output to 7.5V and connected both fans using a Radioshack adaptor that I soldered. Placing the fans on a strip of foam rubber for mechanical isolation (plus the low voltage) results in a nearly silent cooling system in my audio cabinet. Of course, if you get a separate amp, there will be other benefits besides a cooler running receiver.
     
  13. dale^g

    dale^g Well-Known Member

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    onecall.com has the 7200 on sale![​IMG]
     
  14. Steve Adams

    Steve Adams Well-Known Member

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    Good, im glad they have that cleared up, I love the sound of HK's, but the qc in the 320.....series was terrible. Like I said, when I sold them there were more comming back fried than you could keep track of, just the other day, my friend had his 320 die on him, in a puff of smoke....zzzaaappp!....let's hope the 325 series, is better. they are very good sounding.!
     
  15. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Well-Known Member

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  16. Thira

    Thira Active Member

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    I am also considering the HK 7200. Just curious, what are similar models from other manufacturers worth condidering?
     
  17. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Well-Known Member

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  18. Greg Thomas

    Greg Thomas Well-Known Member

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    From I've been reading on other forums the NAD 762 might be something worth considering and comparing to the HK 7200. It can be found in the $1000-$1400 range.
     
  19. MichaelDDD

    MichaelDDD Well-Known Member

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    Real Name:
    Mike
    What makes the HK 7200 better than the Denon 3803? It's not even spec'd to run at 6 ohms! Any receiver costing anywhere near $1K had better be able to handle a 6-ohm load. [​IMG][​IMG]

    AVR-7200 spec sheet: http://www.harmankardon.com/specific...207200&sType=C

    I don't believe it does video upconversion either. Doesn't seem like a winner or even a contender to me. Correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  20. Doug Brewster

    Doug Brewster Well-Known Member

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    "It's not even spec'd to run at 6 ohms! Any receiver costing anywhere near $1K had better be able to handle a 6-ohm load."

    Receivers that rate their products at 6 ohms do so to boost the WPC rating. It is not the sign of a better receiver/amp, but is the sign of a weaker receiver/amp. H/K's always meet their rated specs (and exceed them) and will drive not only 6 ohms but 4 ohms.

    As far as whether that makes it better than the 3803, that is a matter of opinion and what you want in a receiver. Most people who choose the H/K's like the way they sound with music. As far as the 3803 goes, it's a good product and I'd be tempted to buy one. 3803 or 7200 would be a tough choice.
     

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