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Hey Austin Texas Buddies? Can anyone help me out?

Discussion in 'Home Theater Forum Meets' started by mike_frontier, Jan 23, 2003.

  1. Nils Luehrmann

    Nils Luehrmann Well-Known Member

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    On a related note, I try and keep a list of current model projectors so that I know what to keep an eye out for demo purposes. You might find some value in it.



    PROJECTORS w/STANDARD (4:3) NATIVE RESOLUTIONS
    ================================================== =

    SVGA
    ---------------------------------------------------
    800x600LCD$1,300-$7,000
    * too many makes & models to list

    800x600DLP$2,000-$7,000
    * too many makes & models to list


    XGA
    ---------------------------------------------------
    1024x768LCD$2,100-$ 35,000
    * too many makes & models to list

    1024x768DLP$2,200-$150,000
    * too many makes & models to list


    SXGA
    ---------------------------------------------------
    1280x1024LCD$16,700-$30,000
    Sharp XG Series XG-V10WU
    Panasonic PT-L6600U (Panasonic PT-L6600UL)
    Barco BarcoReality 6500
    Sanyo PLC-EF10NZ (EIKI LC-SX1UL & LC-SX1U) (Proxima Pro AV 9400) (Boxlight FP-95t)
    Sanyo PLC-EF12NL (Sanyo PLC-EF12N)
    Sony VPL-FE110
    Sanyo PLC-EF30NL (Sanyo PLC-EF30N) (Christie Vivid Blue) (Dukane ImagePro 9058) (Proxima Pro AV 9550)

    1280x1024DLP$30,000-$130,000
    Christie (many different models)
    NEC (many different models)
    Digital Projection (many different models)
    Barco (many different models)
    Panasonic PT-D7600U
    Panasonic PT-D8600U
    Panasonic PT-D9610U
    Runco Reflection VX-5c
    ProjectionDesign F1

    1280x1024LCoS$18,000
    JVC DLA-M15U

    1366x1024LCD$14,600-$27,500
    NEC GT2150
    Digital Projection SHOWlite 3000sx
    Epson PowerLite 9100i/NL (A+K EMP 9100)
    Barco iQ R300 (Pro R300)
    Barco iQ R400 (Pro R400)

    1365x1024LCoS$8,500-$75,000
    Hitachi CP-SX5500W (Dukane ImagePro 9115) (Christie Vivid Red)
    JVC DLA-G15U (G15U-V) (G150CL) (S15U) (S15U-V) (Dukane ImagePro 9015)
    JVC DLA-G20U (G20U-V) (M20U) (M20U-V) (M2000LU) (M2000SC) (Dukane ImagePro 9020)
    JVC DLA-M5000SCU

    1400x1050LCoS$10,000
    JVC DLA-SX21


    UXGA
    ---------------------------------------------------
    1600x1200LCD$45,000-$51,300
    Barco Ultra Reality 7000
    Sanyo PLC-UF10 (Christie Vivid White) (EIKI LC-UXT1)


    QXGA
    ---------------------------------------------------
    2048x1536LCD$13,000
    Lasergraphics LG2001

    2048x1536LCoS$225,000
    JVC DLA-QX1G



    PROJECTORS w/WIDESCREEN (16:9) NATIVE RESOLUTIONS
    ================================================== =

    WVGA
    ---------------------------------------------------
    848x480DLP$2,700-$8,600
    (these all use the TI Dual Mode Chip so for 4:3 thay also offer a native 800x600 resolution)
    PLUS Home Piano HE3100
    PLUS Home Piano Avanti HE-3200
    Runco Reflection CL-500
    InFocus Screenplay 110 (Boxlight 12SF) (Toshiba TDP-MT5)
    SIM2 HT200 DM (HT200 DMF)

    858x484LCD$1,800-$2,500
    Sony VPL-HS2 Cineza
    Panasonic PT-AE100
    Panasonic PT-L200U (PT-AE200U)
    Philips LC6231


    1/4 HD
    ---------------------------------------------------
    960x540LCD$2,400-$2,800
    Panasonic PT-L300U (AE300)
    Sanyo PLV-Z1 (Boxlight Home Matinee 1HD)


    WXGA
    ---------------------------------------------------
    1280x720LCD$5,000-$6,000
    Epson TW100
    Yamaha LPX-500
    Toshiba TACP TLP-MT7

    1280x720DLP$10,000-$27,000
    Runco Reflection CL-700
    InFocus Home Screenplay 7200 (Toshiba TACP TDP-MT8U)
    DWIN TransVision TV2 (TV3)
    SharpVision XV-Z9000U
    SharpVision XV-Z10000U
    Yamaha DPX-1000
    Marantz VP-12S2
    SIM2 Multimedia HT300 (HT300 Plus)
    Runco Reflection VX-1000c
    Runco VX-5000C

    1366x768LCD$3,000-$20,000
    Sony VPL-HS10 Cineza
    Sanyo PLV-60HT (Boxlight Home Cinema 13HD)
    Sony VPL-VW12HT
    Sanyo PLV-70 (Boxlight Home Cinema 20HD)
    Runco DLC-2000HD


    WSXGA
    ---------------------------------------------------
    1920x1080LCD$13,000
    Lasergraphics LG2001

    Like the Dual Mode DLP projectors, this projector actually has two native resolutions: QXGA (2048 x 1536) for 4:3 sources and WSXGA (1920x1080) for 16:9 sources.

    This projector has the distinction as being the first projector to be able to display full 1080p HD material naitively with no scaling.
     
  2. mike_frontier

    mike_frontier Well-Known Member

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    Hey all.

    I just got my FP in today. I decided to purchase the 1HD by Boxlight. I got an image on my wall at 96" diagonal and that's with it sitting 13.5' back from the wall with a little bit of lens shift to the left. The zoom was all the way off. This sucker sure does throw a big image. Love it!

    Any one know about what screen to go with?

    I was thinking of this product called GOO Systems. It can be found at www.goosystems.com any of you have any input about going this way?

    Thanks
     
  3. Jonathan DA

    Jonathan DA Well-Known Member

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    I don't see the magic of Screen Goo, it doesn't seem like anything more than you could achieve at HomeDepot with a little Behr Ultrawhite base, some black pigment, and a little pearlesence. Paint that over some blackout fabric or plastex and voila! I know Nils isn't a fan of grayscreens, but they do seem to have a place when your black levels need help and you're willing to make other compromises to improve them. That said, I don't know if a 1HD falls into that category.

    I guess the real question is, what's your budget and do you want a fixed screen or a roll up screen?
     
  4. mike_frontier

    mike_frontier Well-Known Member

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    Jonathan DA,

    I like to do a DIY screen. I am really good with crafts and wood so this is not a problem building one. As for budgets I think I like to keep my costs less then $100.00 (labor free included). I just need to know what material I should use for an LCD fp.

    Kinda makes sense with grey screen. But I like my wall when hung up not to be so noticeable. I might do something like curtains like Nils did on his screen.

    1st impression is quality,, then 2nd is appearance. I like to surprise when my guests come over and they expect to watch an movie on my 32",,, then the lights go off.... curtain comes open and bang.... FP turns on and projects right over my TV set. [​IMG]

    I am sure you get the idea. [​IMG]

    So any info would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks guys.
     
  5. Nils Luehrmann

    Nils Luehrmann Well-Known Member

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    Mike,

    Congrats on your new projector, and welcome to the world of big screen HT!

    I got a good look at the Sanyo Z1 (which is the exact same projector as the 1HD) so I think I can give you some useful advice regarding screen choices.

    First off, you say you have the projector 13.5' from the screen and that with no zoom you are getting a 96" diagonal image?

    If so, then you may want to contact the Studio Experience division of Boxlight, as they have been publishing a very different throw ratio, as has Sanyo. Using their screen size calculator, they say that placing the projector 13.5' away from the screen will produce anywhere between a 112.5" and a 137.1" diagonal image. 112.5" is without the zoom and 137.1" is with the zoom all the way out. Now it is possible to get a 96" wide image (not diagonal) with the advertised throw ratios and a 13.5' throw, so maybe your image is 96" wide?

    Regardless, if you are getting a 96" diagonal image than all the better as this projector really doesn't have the 'juice' (lumens) to produce an adequate image, for HT use, larger than 96". And even if you used a high gain screen to boost the brightness, the Z1's resolution and LCD pixel structure will come into play if you are considering a viewing distance to screen width ratio of less than 1.75:1. So for a 96" wide image, that would mean ideally sitting at least 14 feet away (measured from the viewer's eye to the screen). Now this can be subjective depending on how sensitive and how much you are concerned about being able to see the pixel structure, and how important a smooth image is to you.

    Going back to the lumen issue, first keep in mind that the larger the image the dimmer it gets, as more light is needed to illuminate a larger area.

    In the case of the Z1/1HD, it only has 700 lumens to begin with, and that is without the grayscale set to 6500D. Typically many manufactures advertise lumens with the projector's grayscale cranked up to as bright as possible. So why it may say on paper that the projector has 700 lumens, in fact it may have far less once it is properly calibrated for video.

    Sony has been one of the worst when it comes to advertising 'modified' lumens. An ISFed calibrated 10HT produces about 450 lumens, but Sony's specs advertise 1000! In fact the HS10 claims to have 1200 lumens, but I can tell you right now that when I compared the Z1 to the HS10 projected on similar size and gain screens, the Sony was only ever so slightly brighter than the Z1.

    From what I saw at the demo last Saturday, the Z1's grayscale is also set above 6500D, probably around 9-10k. if that were true I would guess the Z1 has no more than 500 real lumens to work with and that assumes that the specs are based on an out of the box unit, and not like Sony who bases them on a unit tweaked for max temp grayscale.

    Now brightness, like pixel structure, is subjective, but generally for HT use most shoot for a luminance of about 30 foot lamperts. To measure this you divide the actual lumens by the sqft of the image multiplied by the gain of the screen.

    In your case, if you use a 96" diagonal screen, then with no gain, you'll get about 18 foot lamperts. If that were the case then I'd recommend going with a high gain screen, perhaps a 1.8 - 2.2 gain screen. I'd certainly stay away from any gray screens, and not just because of their effect on the image, but with the exception of Stewart Screen's FireHawk, they all are usually below 1.0 gain so in effect you will actually loose foot lamperts rather than gain them. Gray screens are really only good for projectors with a great deal of lumens and that suffer poor black levels. Neither of those conditions come into play with the Z1.

    Just to sum up, first make sure you identify the image size that you are comfortable with based on comfort and pixel structure. Then calculate luminance, and select a screen material/paint with sufficient gain such that you are not left with either a dim or overly bright image.

    If you need some help, I can drop by sometime and run through with you how to calibrate your Z1 and then measure luminance.
     
  6. mike_frontier

    mike_frontier Well-Known Member

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    Nils,

    I should of been more clear on the distance of the image of the screen width.

    I was watching Monsters Inc and from the image one side to the other is 96" wide (picture only). I did not get the height b/c it too darn high and I did not have a ladder by me at the time.

    Do you think also maybe could of been smaller then by spec b/c of the lens shift?
    The 1HD was not sitting directly in front of the wall where the image was shooting at the wall from.
    Hope this clears it up some.

    As for the offer to help me out I will defiantly take you up on that. I have your phone number so I really say thanks for you offering assistance in helping me getting all my hamsters running properly on my PJ. [​IMG]
     
  7. Jonathan DA

    Jonathan DA Well-Known Member

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    Using Nils recommendation of a 1.8 to 2.2 gain screen may limit your DIY options. A plastex or blackout fabric screen painted with Behr Ultrawhite will produce about a 1.3 gain. You can start mixing pearlesence in with the paint to increase the gain, but you also run the risk of hotspotting, which is a big downer on the image quality. I'm not as big on the super bright image that Nils recommends, my Barco only puts out a fraction of the lumens that a DLP or LCD pj does, and I'm happy with it on a 1.3 gain screen.

    You might want to experiment some before settling on a final screen. Blackout fabric only costs about $10 and the paint is about $20. I have an unpainted 45x80 blackout screen already built you can have for $15 if you come pick it up.
     
  8. Nils Luehrmann

    Nils Luehrmann Well-Known Member

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    Dr. J wrote:
     
  9. Nils Luehrmann

    Nils Luehrmann Well-Known Member

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    Mike,

    I thought something looked strange regarding your recent post about getting your new projector. Sure enough...

    On 2/6/03 Mike F. wrote:
     
  10. Dave Elliott

    Dave Elliott Well-Known Member

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    Hey Nils,

    Do you know of anyone around here who has an NEC HT1000? I'm considering it before the rebate expires next week.

    All the reviews and reports have been highly favorable, but I'd like to see for myself if its worth the ~$2K it would cost me to upgrade over my LT150 and DVDo.

    -Dave
     
  11. Nils Luehrmann

    Nils Luehrmann Well-Known Member

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    No one in Texas that I know personally. Have you tried either posting such a request on AVS? You could also do a search on AVS with the following keywords: +HT1000 +Austin -"Austin Powers" (be sure to include the last or you will likely get a lot of hits regarding the AP DVDs and not someone in Austin). Then send them a PM asking to see it in action.

    You'd be surprised just how open and friendly people can be, especially when they are proud over their equipment choice.

    If you do find someone, let me know. I'd be curious to see how they chose to set it up.
     
  12. Jonathan DA

    Jonathan DA Well-Known Member

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    I just want the cash to buy fabric for another screen [​IMG] The one I'm willing to give up was my first attempt at a DIY screen, it came out pretty well, though there is an ever so slight bulge in the center of the screen from a piece of warped wood. it could be fixed by pulling out the center support beam and turning it around.
     
  13. mike_frontier

    mike_frontier Well-Known Member

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    Nils.

    I return the X1 never even used it. I went to the austin shootout right after I received the X1, and I was more focus on the HD1 due to the short throw and LCD (no rainbow). I return the X1 and got the 1hd now [​IMG] No reason why I would lie but sure can be confusing if things are not clear sorry man.


    Dr J.

    U got an deal I'll buy that screen from you. PM me and we can schedule a time that i can pick it up. I have to have my wifes SUV to get it.
    Let me know buddy.???
     
  14. mike_frontier

    mike_frontier Well-Known Member

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    Hey all. I got it all up an running and I now about about 28 hours on it. No dead pixels. I took some snap shots shooting onto a white wall (no screen). The pics are done at 640x480 and I was standing on my sofa 13' back.
    On one of the pics you can see the ceiling fan [​IMG] .

    But I am doing an DIY screen. The material I am going to use is the Parkland Plastic Poly Wall, the size is going to be 10'x5' [​IMG] . I should start either this weekend on next weekend for sure.
    But here are some shots of it now:

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Hank Frankenberg

    Hank Frankenberg Well-Known Member

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    Mike, your pics show as little white boxes with a small red *x* inside them. I guess my networked Windows NT computer can't read whatever format your pics are in.
     
  16. mike_frontier

    mike_frontier Well-Known Member

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    Hank,

    I see the pics are there, hummm weird. Still can't see nothing?
     
  17. Chad Anson

    Chad Anson Well-Known Member

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    I can see the pics, Mike.

    If you haven't already bought the Parkland Plastex, check out some of the fabrics at dazian.com. I've read where some people really liked that coated celtic cloth.

    The Austin projector shootout cemented my decision to go LCD -- my Panny L300U arrived last week. I've only been able to set it up temporarily, but have been very impressed. I have 3000 lbs of lumber arriving on Saturday and construction of the dedicated theater room officially begins. Woot!
     
  18. Jeff Meininger

    Jeff Meininger Well-Known Member

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    Chad: My wife and I will be joining you in the "300 club" here shortly. We'll have ours sometime later this month. We are planning to buy it sight unseen. We would love LOVE LOVE to see yours sometime before our order ships. The reviews online tend to be very positive, but there's nothing like nitpicking in person. Would you be willing to have my wife and me over to see the PJ sometime? This is a big purchase for us, and seeing one in person would surely remove any fears we have. [​IMG]
     
  19. Chad Anson

    Chad Anson Well-Known Member

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    Jeff,
    Right now, I don't have it set up or even a good white wall to project against. That will change in about 8 weeks after I'm done with our theater room construction. So, I've been limited to playing with my new toy at a buddy's house using his screen.

    However, I'd be happy to bring the 300 and a progressive scan dvd player to any screen or white wall in town. [​IMG]
     
  20. Nils Luehrmann

    Nils Luehrmann Well-Known Member

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    Chad,

    If you like you can plug your 300 into my system and invite folks to come over and check it out. The only thing you'll need to bring is the projector and power cord. I have a progressive scan DVD as well as a multitude of connections (DVI, VGA, Component, and S-Video).

    The screen is a 7' wide Parkland PLAS-TEX.
     

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