Help! trying to decide about IPod... (1 Viewer)

[Craig S]

Thanks for the correction. I was unaware of those sites. Still, I think it's fair to say that any major-label music you purchase online is going to be DRM-encoded.

 

[Mark Murphy]

I don't have a problem w/the "iCulture" so to speak. I just couldn't justify spending an extra $100 for 10 less Gigs and a complete conversion of my music files. A $300 20gb iPod didn't offer me any more value than a $200 Creative Nomad Jukebox. One thing I have noticed about the iPod is that its becoming like SVS. The moment someone bashes it a riot ensues. I'm not bashing either, I own an SVS but I call 'em like I see 'em.

 

[Marvin Richardson]

I bought the $400 40gb iPod 4G a few months ago and love it. I was seriously looking at the 40gb iRiver H340 that is actually MORE expensive than the iPod (imagine that...I thought iPods were the most expensive thing on earth) but it has a color display. That would have been nice, but no on the go playlists kinda killed that for me. I wouldn't touch a Creative player knowing how bloated their software usually is. The iRiver is a nice player and almost got my money, but iPod won out in the end.
As far as sound quality goes...I read some things that said the iPod sound was not very good...well, I guess my ears suck because hooked up to my Sopny MDR-V700 headphones (yes, they are a little big for an iPod, but I listed at my computer at work most of the time) the iPod sounds incredible. Hard to believe that much power comes out of that little thing.
I never thought the day would come when I'd by an Apple anything and be proud of it.

 

[Thomas Reagan]

Here's a question:

Any recommendations as to durability? I want one for running, but worry about it's ability to withstand extreme temperatures (since it will probably be clutched in my hand). I take it that "skip protection" is a non-issue?

Thos.

 

[DustinLC]

Can someone help me understand something here.

The new IPod shuffle starts at 512MB. It holds MP3 like all IPods right?

A CDR has 700MB. I use ITune to get loads of MP3 format songs onto just one disc. Normally, you can only get 80min of music onto a CDR if it's uncompressed, non MP3 but if you transfer it as MP3 (in mac, you just drag the songs from itune to the disc and it's an auto MP3). I didn't check to see how many hours I got in with one CDR but it was a lot of hours. It was obvious to me that the MP3 burned was inferior in quality compared to using only 80min to fill up the disc ( I'm sorry but don't remember what this format is call).

What's the difference between the MP3 of a 700MB CDR versus an IPod Shuffle with 512MB besides the obvious. How is the quality? How is the quality of the MP3 in IPod compare to the original source?

 

[Ted Lee]

thomas, if you are concerned about skipping, check out the ipod shuffle -- i think it even has an armband strap, so you won't have to hold it.

dustin, not sure exactly what you're asking, but it sounds like you're concerned about the audio quality of the ipod shuffle (in mp3) format vs an uncompressed file? i guess that would depend on what bitrate your encode at. i do most of my stuff at 160 and am happy with it. 192 probably sounds a little better, but it's no biggie to me .. since i own all the cd's i rip anyway.

(which also negates the whole drm issue...sorry, just *had* to toss that in! )

 

[Jason Adams]

Geez...I ask one question about iPod and now I'm an uninformed, raving iPod-hater. iPod is cool, but I would not buy one or recommend one to friends. I even pointed out the excellent software in iTunes. Ridiculous hyperbole and ignorant speculation? Where is that in my post? Oh, I guess the sound issue could be considered as such, but I've seen that all over the Internet and heard it for myself.

Anyways, I don't feel like catching hell for bashing the majority, so I'll just say that I prefer Creative, and that the cuter, more overly priced one won.

Oh, and Todd...go to which one feels right.

 

[DustinLC]

Ted, you're right. I'm concern about the quality.

Also I was wondering what was the big deal of an IPod shuffle that's 512MB versus a CDR that's 700MB. Couldn't you hold more MP3 on a CDR?

I didn't know MP3 have different quality. I thought they're all created equal. Ignorant in my part. So it could mean that 500MB of space on a CDR could yield inferior quality to 500MB of space on an IPod depending on the birate of encoding?

So when Ipod is advertising how many songs it can hold. What birate of encoding are they talking about?

Edited to add that my lack of understanding of how it works is what preventing me from buying at this point. However, I'm growing very very weak .

 

[DustinLC]

OK, I found out that it's based on 128kpps AAC encoding. Now I assume you have the option of encoding higher. At what point of encoding do you quys fail to notice a difference from the original CD?

 

[Scott L]

128kbps should be avoided if you're ripping your own collection. 160-192 is probably the sweet spot for that little gizmo. Why don't you just spend $50 more and get the 1gb iPod Shuffle?

 

[DustinLC]

Dustin,

The Ipod has a "Apple lossless" transfer so that no quality is loss although I don't know how many songs a 20GB Ipod can hold. Maybe someone here knows.

Sorry guys. Don't hurt me for all the questions (and answer ). Thanks for all the informations.


Actually I have my eyes on the 20GB Ipod at this point .

 

[Christ Reynolds]

haha i feel the same way!

CJ

 

[Jim_F]

I have about 3500 songs of various (and variable) bitrates (probably ~160kbps or so on avg.) occupying ~20GB of space on my iPod.

 

[Scott L]

I debated about using Apple lossless since I use my iPod to play in my car's aftermarket sound system, but I just settled with 320kbps for my favorite artists. It still sounds great but one of these days I'm going to to A/B tests with the original CD and the iPod connection.

There's also the fact that lossless files make the HD work more since it has to move more kilobytes. But as far as I know HD failure isn't a big problem.

 

[DustinLC]

Just got back from Amazon reading 137 reviews on the 4G 20G Ipod.

Many complainted about the poor sound quality. That's weird considering you can encode it at a higher rate. It seems that everyone is just doing the 128kbps including many of you.

I don't know what "apple lossless" encodes at ( higher than 320 Scott ?)because I haven't bought the Ipod yet but what I have stored in Itune right now is 160kbps. At this rate, I can burn 80min on a CDR (700MB, 80min CDR). I can't tell the quality of the music from the original.

When I do get the Ipod ( need to do a lot of begging to the wife after purchasing a couple of LOTR helms ), 160 is what I'll stick with. So far, Jim comment:


is the only info I have on this after spending the past 2 hours researching and reading reviews. Thanks .

 

[Craig S]

I think each individual should test rips at various bit settings to see the lowest rate they can tolerate. I know a lot of folks think 128 is too low, and that's cool, but for me 128 sounds fine.

 

[Kraig Lang]

So to chime in a little

The Standard iPod with more memory than 1Gig is a Hard Drive base player. What this means is that there is a micro hard drive in the unit that all of the files reside on. The files when played are read from the HD and loaded into a buffer before played. You shouldn't get any skipping at all, but the disk can be damaged by sudden impacts or jerking motions.

The iPod Shuffle is a flashed based player which carries the files on a solid state silicon chip (i.e. no moving parts). Flash is much more expensive than disk space. This is why the flash player with less memory is typically so much more.

As far as strenuous activities, it is never recommended to carry a HD based DAP (Digital Audio Player) when it can be shaken, jerked, bounced,...etc. This may cause the mechanical (moving) parts of a hard drive to fail by either scratching the disk or gumming up.

Flash players are perfect for working out, running, biking, skiing,...etc. They have no moving parts.


As far as the sound quality of iPod, the difference between it and other like players is minimal from an on-board headphone amp standpoint. Little to no difference to the average user.

What is pretty widely accepted though is that the earbuds that come with the player are WAAAAAYYYYY substandard. No matter what player you decide to go with, buy a different set of headphones. Better phones range anywhere from $15 to $500.


Also, know what funtionality you want out of a DAP. If you just want lots of space, you can get an equally good (Some say better) sounding player for hundreds less then the iPod (example: Creative Zen). If you want gadget type add-ons, the iPod is the way to go. If you don't care about memory and space, any of the micros are good (Carbon, Zen Micro, iPod Mini) and flash wise, they all do what they're supposed to do (play music).

Me personally, after reading forever, in store testing, and personally going through 4 different DAPs, I went with the Rio Karma. It was the best sounding to me.

My current setup is this;
(Transportable)Rio Karma, META42 Headphone Amp, Etymotic ER4S Canal Phones
(Portable)Rio Carbon, Audio Technica ATH-CM7ti Earbuds

If I were starting over on a budget with a modest size collection of music, I'd go with the Carbon.

This is just my opinion, which is worth approximately 2 cents.

Quick Edit: I have all my MP3's at 128kbps. I had ~10,000 on my 40Gig Zen, and get half that on my 20Gig Karma. (And Yes it took me 4 weeks to rip all of that ) Which brings up a quick lesson learned for me. I liked having my entire collection with me on the Zen, but after a year, realized that I only listened to about 3000 of the songs so I downgraded in size but got a much better sounding player in the Karma. Don't get suckered into lots of space if you are only going to use 10 Gig of it.

 

[Gary->dee]

Thanks for everyones help and advice.

Kraig that's pretty interesting about the key technical difference between the regular iPods and the shuffle. So basically the shuffle works off of something like a memory chip for my notebook for example. Just as there is currently a 1 gig maximum memory board limitation available, so it's the same with the shuffle. It will probably increase to higher amounts of storage capacity per memory board, so for example in a year or so we might see a 5 gig iPod shuffle available.

At any rate, I'm not interested in a shuffle because as I said in an earlier post I'm thinking of 20 gigs minimum. Most of my collection of MP3s range from 128 all the way up to 500k+ bps per song. And I've got around more than 100 CD's I'd like to dump to a portable music player with probably a minimum of 160-192k bps per track(Led Zeppelin does not sound too good at 128).

To be honest I'm not entirely sold on an iPod yet, economics will likely play a key role in my decision. Which is why I hope to get a 20-40gig player for between $200-$300 in a couple of months. I'm definitely not concerned about the politics or whatever of the Apple/iPod culture even though I've been a PC guy all my life(well except for that Atari 800 I started with 22 years ago!). I actually have a great deal of respect for Apple. They always seem to come out with the coolest things. Perhaps an iPod will be my first Apple product.

 

[Al.Anderson]

When discussing encoding bit rates you have to include the format. AAC (mp4) is supposed to be both more efficient in compression and sound better than equivalent encoding in mp3 format. (So Led Zeppelin sounds fine at 128 AAC - and I speak from experience as they're well represented on my favorites playlist!)

On the other hand, I ripped most of my CDs using mp3 at 196 just so I could use them on other products without re-ripping. (When you buy from iTunes the tracks only come in AAC; when you rip your CD you can specifiy the encoding.)

Also, I have about 225 CDs on my 20G iPod and I'm just about at 10G. I haven't tried to justify this with any calculation; but those are the facts. So if you have 100 CD you can stay with the 20G. (I used to see the older 15G at Best Buy at a good price.)

And as for iPod or not - I absoluely love my iPod, but I do think they're overpriced. I would have bought a Dell DJ, but it has an embedded microphone, which I can't have where I work. I'd say if you're into form factor, go with the iPod; if price/performance is more your market, there are other good alternatives.

 

[Kraig Lang]

No Problem Gary->Dee,

From a space and sound quality standpoint, a great first player would be the Zen Touch 40GB. With the initial excitement of Digital Audio Players, it's very easy to max out a 20GB player.

As far as functionality you can look for these options

Gapless Playback (Karma Only)
Sound Quality
EQ
Recorder
Removable Battery
MSC compatibility (Removable Drive Functionality)
Most players require manfacturer or 3rd party software to access.
ID3 Tag Support
Customer Support
Warranty
etc...

Prioritize your top 3 and find the players that meet those. This will definitely help to narrow down your choices.