Help, I'm ready to buy into either SACD or DVD-A (1 Viewer)

[KeithH]

Micahel, I had heard that the Hodie discs offer 24/192 stereo, but I had never heard of the conductor.

 

[Micahel C]

"...I had never heard of the conductor."

Me either, but then as I'm not a big classical fan, I wouldn't know if he was a big name or not. I wanted the Brandenburg Concertos and as there are several versions out on dvd-a, I asked some friends I know for a recommendation and they sent me off to the Hodie website. I can tell you this, the disc's are excellent. So good in fact, that I'm now considering ordering a couple more titles. Gads! I'm crossing over! :b Here's a link to their site. They have links to allow you to listen to excerpts from any of their titles. Although they obviously won't be hi-rez, at least you can get an idea of how the music sounds and how well the conductor works. And no, I'm not trying to convert you. (dvd-a or classical)LOL!
Link Removed

 

[Eujin]

Toss-up schmoss-up. I'd take a good recording from a favorite conductor (Hogwood, Norrington, Harnencourt) over a technically better recording of an unknown source or one that I would not prefer.

Philip, you and I are in agreement about this point--I don't really care what the format is as long as the quality-to-performance ratio is acceptable to my ears. However, I've had a number of conversations with people who have disagreed, hence my comment that it's sometimes a toss-up between the quality of the recording and the merit of the performance.

 

[Frank Zimkas]

I got a Pioneer Elite DV47a for Fathers Day from my wife and kids and so far no complaints about it. I have not seen the Chroma Bug, and the Progressive Scan picture is fantastic
As for which format is the best, well I think that they are both great. I like the DVD-A for listening to live (concert) performances, The Eagles "Hell Freezes Over" is my favorite demo when we have friends come over. SACD is superb for 2 channel listening.
I guess that it really doesn't matter if others don't agree on which is best, cuz it ain't their wallet getting cracked open. It's your system, and your money. Buy one or buy both, I don't think that you will be disappointed either way.

 

[KeithH]

Frank, Eagles Hell Freezes Over is not a DVD-Audio disc. There is no high-resolution MLP PCM track. It's just DTS and Dolby Digital. It sounds good in DTS, but not as good as DVD-Audio.

 

[Frank Zimkas]

Keith,
You are correct sir! I should have clarified and said to show off the multi-channel aspect of my little system!

BTW if you like HELL FREEZES OVER try Don Henly's The End Of The Innocence, Fleetwood Mac's Rumours is also a great disc.

 

[Dennis B]

Vanderkooy and Lipshitz are academics. They have no vested interest in either PCM or DSD.

John,

Boy, do I respect your credentials and comments, but I just can't agree with the above statement. While it was very useful in showing that Matthew might be biased, in the real academic world you'll also have trouble finding people who aren't at least biased towards one or another technology, especially competing ones. Not to mention there is a lot of interest running behind the scenes, after all most of the academic researches are sponsored by private resources.

I don't mean by any means that SACD is better or worse than DVD-A, I don't have the experience to back any comparison, I just didn't want to everybody in this forum to think academics are neutral people, which is very rarely the case.

Best reagards.

 

[KeithH]

Dennis,
When I was in grad. school for organic chemistry, I saw all sorts of biases and politics. Many professors couldn't stand counterparts in their field at other universities. Many had agendas for forwarding their research in print. It wasn't always for the good of science.
Frank,
I have the Hell Freezes Over DTS CD, and it is quite enjoyable. Don Henley End of the Innocence is also a DTS CD, not a DVD-Audio disc. I have that DTS CD too, and it is also a winner. Now Rumours is on DVD-Audio, and the high-resolution tracks are exceptional. That disc is a joy to own.

 

[David Judah]

The Eagles do have a DVD-A of Hotel California with a 24/192 stereo track, no less, which like Fleetwood Mac's disc is very good quality.

DJ

 

[MattCPT]

I appreciate the the response that I received to my questions. I now have a better idea of what purchases to make first. I do want to clarify that I love classical, but I'm not so knowledgeable that I know the best conductors or even orchestras. I have maybe 25 cds in my collection, and some of those came in a set. If anyone does have recommendations on some of the better conductor/orchestra combinations I would love to hear from you (especially if they're on SACD).
Thanks

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Messrs Vanderkooy and Lipshitz have asserted that noise is a serious factor with DSD, and that that it will be manifested by diminished SNR beginning within the audible band.

Here we go again. Just remember that John Kotches has NEVER proven that this so-called ultrasonic noise has been detected by human ears. Even John Atkinson's ears can't detect this. Even my engineer friends in NYC think it is lower than the noise floor and they can't hear it. Even on $80K sound systems!
Many people believe the reason that Super Audio sounds so good is that the ultrafast sampling rate captures the ultrafast transient notes that happen frequently in real music.
There are equally well qualified academics on both sides of this issue. Peter Moncrieff is, however, widely discredited for writing such a biased article with many factually incorrect statements. Visit Audio Asylum for infinite detail. Now AA would never be good evidence for the argument but there are some very good technical postings from Demery of the Super Audio team.
My view on the academics is actually to pay more attention to folks like Bob Ludwig, real world practitioners that know the master tape in detail. Michael Bishop, John Atkinson, and others to name more. Of course Mark Waldrep is on the other side, but he uses 24 mics!
Ultimately, the best answer is to listen for yourself and decide which you like. John Kotches and I will never agree on this issue and the perpetual return of the "ultrasonic noise" issue indicates the lack of thinking from that camp. Read a couple of issues ago in Absolute Sound where Michael Bishop tells of listening to high rez PCM off the master mic feed versus SACD. Super Audio blew it away. And things will only get better as more Super Audio mastering equipment is made available and cheaper.
Any listen to the DSD recording of Mahler by SFO will confirm this.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

As far as bands/artists I listen to Rush, Billy Joel, Dave Matthews, Blues Traveler, Metallica, Van Halen, U2, Queen, David Bowe, Journey, Pink Floyd, etc...

Matt,

We have several Billy Joel albums, but it seems you might also like:

Bruce Springsteen
The Rolling Stones (22 early labums in the works)
The Who
Creedence Clearwater Revival

The rock titles are getting better and better as momentum builds and more labels get into the act. Even some heavy metal titles are out now.

We keep hoping for Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, and U2...

 

[KeithH]

O.K., so the Lee Scoggins camp has been heard from. All I can say is that I am ready for Lee and John to rumblllllle! And, yes, I am selling tickets. $50 gets you in the front row. Send me a Private Message for details.

 

[John Kotches]

Dennis,

I didn't say that V&L don't have bias, it's nearly impossible to be completely unbiased.

OTOH, V&L aren't selling anything, have no patent royalties at stake, and are highly regarded as experts in their field.

Regards,

 

[John Kotches]

Lee,
Here's what I said:

My view on the academics is actually to pay more attention to folks like Bob Ludwig, real world practitioners that know the master tape in detail.

Would this be the same Bob Ludwig who said this recently, as contained in an e-mail with High Fidelity Review:
"96kHz/24 bit if and only if played back over great sounding converters (I haven’t heard any so far, perhaps Meridian’s will sound good) should sound about as good as SACD (who already have several decent sounding machines out there.)" Weird that Bob Ludwig, who has access to some pretty great gear could come to the conclusion that 24/96K should be about the same as DSD. Never mind that he has supposed to have recently had 24/192K capability installed at Gateway Mastering and DVD.
As far as AA goes, I couldn't give a rat's hindquarters about what the people at AA have to say. It's a great place if you want to pat yourself on the back for your SACD purchases, but that's about the extent of it. The moderation is terrible, and the behaviour of SACD proponents is allowed far greater leeway than those that support DVD-A.
On a not really related note, I finally got the copy of NY Reunion in, but have not had a chance to sit down and give it a listen. Congratulations on being given credit on the album notes.
Regards,

 

[John Kotches]

Lee said this:

Of course Mark Waldrep is on the other side, but he uses 24 mics!

Do you have any idea of what Mark's recording goals are?

Have you listened to the results that Mark gets?

If the answer is no to either of these questions, then it sounds to me like you're mocking that which you have no understanding.

If you want to make this personal with me, that's fine Lee. Your potshot towards Mark Waldrep is at best a faux pas on your part. That's being polite, and much more reserved than I originally typed.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

sound about as good as SACD

Yes, Bob still thinks DSD is better than PCM as does Michael Bishop and Steve Hoffman seems fairly oriented to it in his new remasters as well...What equipment Bob uses may be more driven by economics and dual format labels he works with.

 

[Frank Zimkas]

This is almost as exciting as Celebrity Boxing!

 

[Brian Ruth]

I'm not sure if this point has been made already, but I'll share it anyways:

DVD-A discs usually have a DVD-Video compatible track encoded on them. While these are compressed, and don't sound as good as TRUE DVD-Audio, it means you can play most DVD-A discs on SACD systems. My dad bought the Sony 5-disc SACD/DVD changer, and the Fleetwood Mac Rumours album I bought sounds great when I play it on the changer. I think its good that at least one camp has compatibility in mind.

 

[Philip Hamm]

There's redbooc CD compatability built into SACD also. It sounds a hell of a lot better than DD. Unfortunately it's rarely utilized by Sony.