HDMI: Some thoughts (both informal and expert) on the new connectivity (1 Viewer)

[RAF]

mylan,

Without a doubt HDMI is much more finicky than some of the more traditional connection methods. I think that's what you experienced with your recent HDMI flakiness. The problem stems from the fact that not all manufacturers see fit to follow the HDMI guidelines exactly so sometimes there are incompatibilities. With HDMI 1.3a, the "a" represents that the equipment has been certified to adhere to HDMI guidelines to the point where the type of experience you had is greatly lessened.

But, of course, that doesn't address your immediate problem. As you said, switching to component for your video solves the problem for you, but HDMI should still work better than it did. Here are a few ideas off the top of my head. Does your Denon 2910 have the latest firmware? I believe you can check on the denon.com website under support, downloads, etc. Firmware updates usually address HDMI issues to a degree and since the 2910 has been out for some time this might be a lead. Also, I'm not sure, but maybe your Sony LCD also has firmware updates? Same reason.

I hope that you can get to the bottom of your issue because this is exactly the type of thing that my article was talking about. HDMI can be a beautiful thing, but sometimes it can be extremely frustrating because of the wide variance in HDMI implementation by the various manufacturers. This will get better once all equipment is routinely "certified." Unfortunately, one might say that the public has become unwitting Beta Testers for HDMI at the moment.

Good luck.

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

In additon to what RAF has stated I recognize this problem as I experienced the same thing when I hooked up my Blu-ray player via HDMI and tried to watch a standard def DVD on it, it looked extremely grainy until I switched the players resolution output from 1080p to 480p and then DVD's looked fine.

Not sure if that's a help but it sounds like it might apply to your friends problem as well.

 

[mylan]

RAF, believe it or not, I have never done a firmware upgrade in either the display nor the 2910, after this latest problem, I did look on Denon's site and entered my serial # and it claimed that there wasn't an update.
I had previously thought firmware but after reading some of the horror stories about HD-DVD and BD firmware problems gave me pause to wreck a perfectly good machine being that the flickering had only occurred once at that point but now I would consider it. I know consumer electronics are basically computers but it sort of gripes me that we even have a need to to do firmware upgrades unless there is some major benefit to them. I worry about "bricking" a $600 player as i've read here and elsewhere.
A.F.A. HDMI is concerned, its better than DVI but I wished they had retained the locking screws, I hate having to reset my expensive Monster (yeah, I know, that was before HTF) because of the massive strain relief on the connectors. I don't think this is a cable problem since it has only occurred twice in three years.

 

[MarkHastings]

RAF, maybe you can finally clear something up for me (I've never been able to get a positive answer)...

First off, since I have actually had so called "experts" tell me that it didn't matter what kind of USB cable I got (when USB 2.0 was fairly new) - I have always been cautious about the advice I take because what someone might see as "good enough", may not always be "good enough" for everyone. And also, for someone who has a hard enough time keeping up on technology advances (while still trying to stay on top of technology with my purchases), I've always just purchased expensive cables because it was always easier when trouble shooting any issues (i.e. I can concentrate on the hardware and not the hardware AND the connectors). I've also been the type to figure; If I'm gonna spend thousands of $$ on HT equip., what's the big deal about buying a $100 cable vs. a $10 one if it means (as I said) one less thing to have to think about if I run into any problems with the signal.

Or how about all of those people who bought 720p HDTV's and didn't realize that they weren't getting the best resolution because they figured HD was all the same?

Anwyays, with that out of the way, what I want to know is, can the less expensive HDMI cables handle the throughput of all this new technology (combined) without the hiccups? The one nice thing about the expensive cables is that they tell you what it can handle (in terms of speed). I mean, 1080p+ / 120Hz / decoded HD audio (which is what I'll need the player to do since my amp can't), 12-bit color, etc. etc. over one connection?? - That sounds like a lot of throughput speed needed. And again, while I understand that "Digital info is Digital info" (i.e. 1's and 0's are just 1's and 0's), I also live in the digital video computer world where I know that as digital video outputs increase, faster cables are required (which tend to cost more).

What always concerned me is that the cheaper cables wouldn't be able to hold up to all of that throughput since they don't mention it on the packaging. Do all cheap cables support 10+gbps? I mean, I've read sites that say that the technology uses half that speed, but no one says what that speed includes? Are they including the new audio formats?? A lot of the sites seem to be old and don't account for this. So while it may have BEEN true that cheap cables were comparable, I need to know what the new audio formats do to the equation.

I'd hate to buy a cheap cable and find out that it can't support the latest technology. Just like with the person who told me that it was dumb to pay more for the more expensive USB2 cable - but, I was glad I spent the money on that USB2 cable because the 'cheaper' cable wouldn't have allowed me to transfer video or move files as quickly as I can.

Thanks

 

[marcIs]

can someone tell me if the 800 seires will do dd true and dts master audio, prt number is 127957, as i just bought two of thies, and monster said they woud. putting the cables on a sony bdps 500 and onkyo 876 need them to do 1080p and deep colour. if you can help that would be good, thanks. marc

 

[marcIs]

i have my answer

 

[Jon Martin]

Just what is the difference between the different HDMI cables? Why are the prices so all over the place?

While I'm not high def yet, over the weekend, I was helping someone set up their TV. We went to Circuit City to get cables for it. They had HDMI cables from the $30 to $130 range. We bought the last of the $30 (on a clearance rack) and it set up fine.

Looking online since, I saw this one for $3 at Amazon.

Amazon.com: HDMI Cable 2M (6 Feet): Electronics

With over 800 5 star reviews, I guess it is a pretty good cable.

Are those $130 cables just a scam, sold to gullible people at Circuit City (along with extended warranties) by sales people who say they are needed? Or is there really that much of a difference?

 

[RAF]

Sorry about not being more active in this thread over the past few months. With the lack of activity here I totally missed MarkHastings' posting and just happened across a few of the later ones on a general pass through the various sections.

The bottom line to me is that the only thing of real significance in an HDMI cable (other than once you get past 25 feet or so you might have do deal with a possible weakening of signal due to length) is that it is well constructed. That is to say, the connectors should be solidly made and the wires should at least be of a sturdy quality. There is absolutely no need to spend upwards and over $50 (sometimes much, much more!) for a standard 6 foot HDMI cable. There are plenty of companies who offer great HDMI cables in the $10 range (and even cheaper if you shop around.) I personally use monoprice.com for most of my cabling needs and I see no reason to go for the expensive stuff. I have no affiliation nor any other relationship with that site other than being a satisfied customer. I'm sure there are many other reputable sites where one can buy equivalent products.

All this talk about cable "speed" and other such stuff is just that - talk. While it might be true that some of the expensive (overpriced?) cables can carry signals with higher frequencies or whatever else they claim is important I have yet to see any real world evidence that it makes a difference at all. In my experience every available source (and those on the horizon) can be adequately carried by cables that are built well and "speed" has little if any effect on anything. We can argue this all day and I'm sure that some "experts" will pull out the charts and diagrams in an attempt to prove that their cables produce smoother response or some other such stuff. My answer to them is that I watch images and listen to sound, not to graphs and charts. I trust my eyes and ears as the final judge of what's good and what's superfluous.

And the final advice - as I've stated many times before - is that if you wish to take the plunge with the high priced cables, just make sure that you get a try and buy deal. Use both the high priced cable(s) and the more sensibly priced one(s) to see if you discern a difference. I have yet to find an example where paying more in the digital domain for cables gets you superior performance (dismissing shoddily made cables, of course.) If you are honest with yourself you will be returning the high priced spread.

That's my 2 bits on this.

 

[MarkHastings]

Thanks Robert, I've learned a lot.

But I'm still not willing to give up my Monster cables. As long as men are willing to spend 1,000% markup on diamond rings for their wives, I guess I can't feel too stupid about overpaying for a cable.

 

[John Dirk]

Jon;

I've had my Onkyo 805 for over 6 months. I did eventually add a small cooling fan, but not because the receiver ever showed any signs of heat-related failure. I just wasn't happy with the surface temp being hot to the touch. With the fan, this unit runs as cool as any other I've owned, and feature-wise, I don't believe there is a match for it out there anywhere near its price.

John

 

[RAF]

You're welcome Mark!

And if you feel comfortable with your Monster Cables I won't try to rain on your parade, especially after the Diamond ring story. I had a real awakening many years ago when a local store was going out of business and a friend was able to get me a bunch of Monster Cables "at cost." This translated to 10 cents on the dollar so I was paying $10 for $100 cables and stocked up on a bunch of them at that price. And that was in the "analog" days where cable specs may actually have had a bit more to do with performance. They were very nice cables for the price (that I paid).

The big box stores are very competitive on sales of TVs. It's the accessories (and service contracts) that brings in the real profit and that's why they push their biggest margins. Can't say that I blame them but when they start claiming, "You'll definitely see and hear the difference" with certain HDMI cables that's when I draw the line.

 

[Chris Lockwood]

Interesting reading- I didn't know you had a doctorate. Is it in home theatology?

 

[Chris Lockwood]

I just ordered one- that should add 7 cents to the HTF maintenance fund.

Beats the $20 cheap ones I saw at Walmart.

 

[RAF]

Actually, quite close. Computer Technology. Today's HT products are essentially computers with a (sometimes) singular purpose.

 

[Nomad]

Not always as Ive just discovered. Im a novice so my understanding of the technical aspects are minimal at best.

Quick run down:
Equiptment consists of A 1080i plasma tv, Yamaha V663 receiver and a non HD DVD player.
Toslink from DVD to Yamaha
Component wiring from DVD to Yamaha
HDMI cable from Yamaha to tv
Heres the rub...apparently the Yamaha doesnt have audio pass through.
I dont get audio from tv unless I also hook up an analog audio cable.
I do get a digital signal when viewing a DVD.
Im still getting 5.1 of course and quite frankly its damned crisp so Im not unhappy but I do feel duped on the not 100% HDMI compatibility issue when viewing high def channels on tv.

 

[Mike Frezon]

RAF:

I am potentially close to getting a new TV with HDMI capabilities--to go along with my Blu-ray player and Satellite TV box. So, this would be the first time I would be able to use HDMI connections (for video, at least). I'll still be using some low-tech analog 5.1 connections for my audio!

I had tucked your article in the back of my mind and have come looking for it tonight. But, alas, the link in the OP is not working. Does the article exist somewhere on the "new" HTF?

Thanks.

Mike

 

[TheBat]

I have a complext set up for my home theatre. I am using the HDMI for everything.. however I was having problems with a couple of the HDMI.. they would sound low. I would have to turn up the receiver.. but then I got a new 2 foot cable. it was a big difference.. the old cables that I was using was 3 ft. can an HDMI cable go bad? I use the onkyo 605. with the new HDMI cable.. I have it set about 50. the old cables I would have to turn it up a bit sometimes at 60. the music and action would be loud but not the voice. but when this new cable.. it was more balanced.

Jacob

 

[Mike Frezon]

I was just going to come back this morning and bump this...hoping to find a link to RAF's article.

Let me throw this question out there for anyone.

As I get closer to the purchase of a new display--with HDMI connectivity...my plan to is connect my Panny BD-10 and Dish Network box directly to the TV via HDMI for video and still run audio (analog 5.1 for the BD player and optical for the sat. box) to the receiver. My receiver is an older Sony with no HDMI capabilities.

The Panny and sat box will understand that that they are only sending video via the HDMI, correct? I wouldn't want to spend the $$$ on the cables (my cart is already set up at monoprice) if it wouldn't be the smart way to go.

 

[Martino]

"The Panny and sat box will understand that that they are only sending video via the HDMI, correct? "

I believe that they both will send video and audio over the HDMI....what you decide to do with the audio coming out of the cable is up to you. You will just have to mute your TV, or if you wanted to bypass your sound system the TV speakers will work...

"still run audio (analog 5.1 for the BD player and optical for the sat. box) to the receiver"

That will work, unless there is a setup in the devices to turn off those audio outputs....

 

[Mike Frezon]

Martino: Thanks for the response.

Originally Posted by Martino

That will work, unless there is a setup in the devices to turn off those audio outputs....

I guess that's what I'm worried about. Since what I've read is that the HDMI caries both video AND audio, I fear (probably needlessly) that the source devices might "think" they shouldn't need to send audio through other means once an HDMI cable is attached.

If that was the case, I guess I'd have to make sure I have enough composite video inputs to the TV.