HD-DVD Titles Announced for 4th Qtr Release- (1 Viewer)

[Al (alweho)]

Thanks to DirecTV and the various HD movie channels (HBO, Showtime, HDNet Movies) I've watched more than a few movies in both HD broadcast and was able to compare them switching back and forth to their DVD editions.

Is there a $1000 difference (the cost of a new player) between the two? Simply, no. Even Shrek with all its CGI detail didn't look stunningly different in HD - the DVD does an outstanding job in 16x9 format on my line doubled 50" Toshiba.

Is there a $200 difference (the cost of the inevitable lower end combi Sony/Toshiba HD player) plus a thousand bucks (the cost of replacing some DVD titles I already own that might benefit from an upgrade)? Maybe... but if I do upgrade to an HD DVD player a lot of the DVDs I have now will probably not be repurchased (especially the older TV show collections).

I was going to wait anyway to see how things play out - the format war only will add to my biding my time. With SACD and DVD-A I benefited from waiting, I finally got an inexpensive combi player and the software prices dropped quite a bit. No matter what format the hi-rez audio title comes out in, I can play it back.

I've also learned to keep my hardware purchases inexpensive - buying top of the line Pioneer amps and DVD players, as opposed to Elite top of the line for example - which lets me upgrade equipment more often, at a pace set at my leisure as opposed to my budget.

 

[Dan Hitchman]

Well, to be fair to both new formats they are using superior compression codecs than MPEG-2 (which is what HBO and all other broadcasters are using)... and much of the time HBO, Cinemax, and Showtime are only using standard definition sources and upconverting them. Also, these channels tend to be bit starved due to space constraints, and many 2.35:1 movies are cropped or zoomed rather than OAR.

However, the name of the game is ultimate quality and that's not what 15 GB HD-DVD's can give you without compromises to the video and audio bitrates (talk about bit starving if they intend to put long movies plus extras on one single layered disc). They also output a max. of 36 Megabits/sec. Blu-Ray is at least 54 Megabits/sec with 27 of that relegated for audio alone!

HD-DVD has now mandated MLP compatibility with their players (minimal requirements is the ability to read the 2 channel downmix-- probably for budget players). Full output is up to 8 channel discrete at 24/192 kHz resolution. MLP could go higher (up to 16 channels and above), but they probably stopped it at 8 for budgetary reasons.

Now, on the Blu-Ray side they have mandated both 8 channel uncompressed LPCM at 24/192 or DTS-HD (no word on channel and resolution limitations yet). There is not enough data and listening tests on DTS-HD yet, but the claim is also bit-for-bit lossless encoding and decoding, including a lossy backwards core on one bitstream.

I'd still like to see MLP included in the Blu-Ray specs.

Dan

 

[WillG]

This just seems like textbook on how not to roll out new technology. A format war, having to buy a new HDTV even if you already have one without HDMI. It just seems very ugly. It just burns me that I bought an HD ready monitor anticipating the HD equipment on the market in the future and now where are we? Still relatively little HD broadcasts and HD-DVD equipment that will be useless because I don't have the HDMI connection.

What really worries me, however, is how the HD-DVD rollout will effect the SD-DVD market. Will we still get SEs of catalog titles, or will they go right to HD. Will studios cut back SD-DVD output in general. Will OAR still be supported on DVD, or will it be phased out like on VHS when DVD became popluar.

 

[Peter Svensson]

A bit off topic, but I´m just curious, can you buy a Plasma/LCD screen with "real" (1920/1080) HD resolution in the U.S. today? If so, what does a normal screen cost? In Sweden we´ll have to wait several years before we get any HD film editions, but now it´s way to expensive to but any HD equipment.

By the way, what resolution does these HD-DVD titles have?

 

[Vader]

I don't think so, as the market penetration for HD will probably be severly limited for all of the reasons we have been talking about. Until the powers that be come up with an compromise acceptable to the masses (who obviously control the market), I suspect that HD-DVD will be little more than a niche market. This, in itself, is not necessarily a bad thing: When SD-DVD became mainstream, the "dumbing-down" of the content for the masses became common, but LaserDisc (which never exceeded "niche" status) was geared for the HT crowd (for the most part).

 

[Grant H]

I said it in the other thread and I'll say it again here:
There is only one man who can end the Format War.


Think about it.

You know who he is.

That man, the Chosen One, if you will, is:

George Lucas.

If Lucas announced TODAY that the Star Wars saga would be released in HD exclusively on Blu-Ray, the war would be over in the blink of an eye. He wouldn't even have to say when, just "some day" or "in the future".

Maybe if we're all really nice and leave dollar signs out of his name, he'd do it.

Lucas is no slouch when it comes to digital technology. Is it inconveivable that he would view Blu-Ray as the superior format? Perhaps he is the man we should plead to. He is the only one with the power to end this destructive conflict.

Also, Paramount is putting out HD-DVD titles, but Lucas owns his movies. If he plays favorites, that means no Indy on HD-DVD.

Plus, it's possible he could pursuade Spielberg to release his films on one format only. Together they'd have a lot of clout. Which way is Dreamworks tilting these days?


That said, many have asked about the PQ improvements; don't forget about sound. It's possible, if not extremely probable (especially with Blu-Ray looking the way it does) that a HD format will sound much, much better than what we have on DVD. Don't forget all those HD broadcasts are using plain vanilla Dolby Digital (and likely a low bitrate version at that.)

If all those titles come out on that low-bitrate hybrid, the HD-DVD titles aren't much to get excited about. I have this sinking feeling the early releases will carry over the exact same DD tracks their counterpart DVD's have. In Warner's case you're talking low bitrate too. And I doubt we'll see any new transfers where needed either.

If Master George has taught me anything, rushing your product out to beat a certain deadline (or competitor) doesn't give you top-notch quality.


I'm not getting too up-in-arms yet about having to buy a new TV for the prevailing HD optical disc format. I'm guessing my TV will die within its 5 year contract, and since it's been discontinued since I bought it, chances are my replacement contract will have to replace it with a new TV with the connection I need. Of course, if I bank on that the TV will outlive me.

 

[Harold Southard]

What about PJ?

 

[John H Ross]

If George Lucas decided to release the ORIGINAL untampered-with Star Wars trilogy on Blu-Ray then, I'd say, the format war would be over, yes.

But with all those controversial changes, and if Lucasfilm sticks to their claim that flipping the rear music channels was intentional and retains the same mix, then sod Star Wars quite frankly.

And I adore Star Wars.

I'd like to echo the concerns raised above with regards to the future of SD-DVD. I'd like to think that Hollywood will be too scared to kill its cashcow by migrating SEs over to HD exclusively. But you never know...

John

 

[Grant H]

Ahh, the general public doesn't differentiate between the multiple editions like we do.

I've never cared THAT much myself(until the problems with the DVD's came up anyway), not enough to get truly upset about. They're still Star Wars. And (most of) the super-fans will buy them no matter how much they complain about them.

PJ doesn't own LOTR. How much do you want to bet the reason they're not on that list for New Line releases is because they're too damn long to compress onto those hybrid HD-DVD and yield acceptable results?

Warner Bros put its Holy Trilogy out there fast enough and they've already double-dipped on them (2 within a year) on the exact same cuts of the movies!

 

[Michael Elliott]

But weren't a lot more titles released open matte/P&S on LD than DVD? A few years I looked into buying a LD player and the majority of the titles I looked at were open matte.

Again, perhaps I'm wrong or naive but I don't think HD-DVD will be anything but niche. We're all HT freaks here but I'm going to guess we're a small percentage of those making the format go.

In all seriousness, outside of myself, I don't know a single person who can use progressive scan. I don't know anyone with a projector or a widescreen set. I know of only a few people who own 5.1 systems and they haven't even heard of DTS. I think these people are the majority so are they going to go HD just for a better picture when they aren't even taking full advantage of the current DVD?

 

[MikeMcNertney]

They have a right to fight theft. And we, as the legitimate paying consumers, have a right to complain when their poorly thought-out "anti-theft" measures inconvenience us.

 

[Adam_WM]

I heard some player manufacturers are working on HD-DVD / Blu-ray combo decks. Is this true?

 

[Grant H]

If the studios are going for a lot of "upgrade" purchases, they won't be too concerned with a lot of extras.

Think how much bonus material is shot on video and is pretty well maxed-out quality-wise on DVD? If you have the extra features on DVD do you really need them again on another format? Obviously if you want to get rid of your old discs it could be a problem if the feature and bonus materials are on the same disc but otherwise a lot of money and time could be saved by not doing the full-blown special editions. Whether that savings will be passed onto the consumer with lower-prices I don't know.

Might actually be nice to have a choice of bare-bones or special editions actually. Buy the movie itself cheap, and pay more for the extras like some DVD releases do now. I hand down my old DVD's. Most of the people I hand down wouldn't ever look at bonus discs.

 

[Vader]

Yup. To my knowledge, LD heralded the birth of OAR awareness among the HT crowd. In the early days (before, say, 1988), most titles were released cropped. Then, as people became more educated on OAR, many of these films were re-released in their un-edited form (as far as I am concerned, a cropped movie is an edited movie). By the time DVD rolled around (and with the advent of 16:9 TVs), OAR already had a large foothold.

 

[Tim_C]

With my relatively small television sets I still have no complaints about the picture quality of most DVDs, so I think I'll wait a few years, when I get a bigger set, to get into higher definition movies. Hopefully by that time there'll be a clear "winner" in this format war, and some great special editions of my favorite movies. Even then I'll probably only update the ones that will really benefit from the format ("Star Wars," "The Lord of the Rings" Trilogy, "Twelve Monkeys...")

 

[Grant H]

Ron hit a really good point earlier. We're breeding a lot of hold-outs, and if WE'RE going to hold out....

I'm thinking universal players might be the only hope for either format. Do you think Toshiba and Sony are working on them?

I wonder how it would go if univeral players became the norm fairly quickly. Would the superior format eventually win out or would the 2 formats co-exist? With all those non-exclusive agreements would studios release on both formats or "upgrade" to Blu-Ray OR would they save money and stick to the side they started with regardless? If Blu-Ray established itself as being truly superior, would the studios WANT to be seen putting their films out on the inferior format or leaving titles there? Could HD-DVD become the next VHS and be sold along side high-bitrate Blu-Ray?

The mind boggles. My head hurts.

 

[Nick Graham]

Seeing as I just stumbled upon a returned Samsung HD-931 for $79.99 while away for the holidays, I think I'm gonna pass until the studios wise up and stick to one format.

Besides, take a look at DVDs from late 97-99. Almost every title I own that came out then, especially the really early ones, look horrible compared to discs (of both catalog and recent films) released within the last couple of years. Anyone who takes the plunge this fall ends up screwed, either because they got something that ended up as this generation's Betamax (if Blu Ray wins), or because eventually they'll have to double dip all of their initial titles if they are a stickler for image quality.

I'm sure I'll be dazzled when these HD-DVDs come out, but thankfully the players will be priced well out of my range, thus my temptation will only go so far.

 

[Paul_Scott]

oooooh.
I can't wait to hear Johnny Williams score flipped and drowned out with lossless compression.
i'm with John.
if it were the originals, i would bite.
but this is the first and last time i'm buying any revamped, remodeled, rebooted versions.

but its a moot point anyway, as i don't expect it will be an issue for a few years at least.

looking over those lists of titles, i'm breathing a big sigh of relief as i don't see anything that compelling to warrant even bothering looking into the technology later this year.
Grease would be cool to have and i would be curious to see how the Music Man looks (if its the original), but i don't want to be buying first generation anything.
its probably good that more good films aren't being released right away.
let em work out the kinks with the Steven Segal stuff.
last thing anyone wants is the HD equivilent of Outland or Blade Runner, or any of the other early Warner titles that are all but unwatchable now.

of course, on the other hand, some of the earliest New Line titles still hold up remarkably well.

anyways, its gonna take me about 20 movies i really want/must have on any given format, as well as a sub $500 retail price before i bite.
probably 2007, i'm thinking.

 

[Lars_J]

Get real... SW is no longer the phenomemon that it was. The recent movies have grossed no more than the usual big movies gross every year. Nothing exceptional.

Odds are that Lucas would not immediately release the films in HD anyway.

 

[Grant H]

I'd kill to have a HD version of Dune (especially as how the DVD isn't even anamorphic). Dark City is another GREAT film.

I wouldn't be too harsh on a lot of the films listed there.
Some there that quite a few will go ga-ga over, Matrix Trilogy, Braveheart.

For a handfull of initial releases on a fledgeling format it's pretty nice. I really scraped at first with DVD.

And in regards to Star Wars, nearly 2/3 of the existing release is okay and would be an easy upgrade to HD.

Let's try to leave the antiquated OOT stuff out of this because it really will not be a sticking point in the end. Star Wars is Star Wars in the end to the majority. Announcing the OOT would be included in the set might countersink the nail, but that's about it.

Besides, you caved last time, Paul.