HD capability, but what about 16:9? (1 Viewer)

[Ryan Wright]

First, I know very little about the current crop of gaming systems. My last system was a Nintendo 64, which I sold because I hadn't played it for so long. So, I apologize for the ignorance of this post:
1. From reading another post today, it looks like XBOX will have 1080i capability. That's all fine and dandy for me. What other systems have HD output (1080i or even 480p)? Gamecube? PS/2?
2. Do any of the current or upcoming systems support scaling to 16:9? I have a widescreen TV and refuse to use it in "boxed" mode. At the same time, I don't want to crop the top and bottom of a game. If any systems DO support 16:9, will they work with *any* game, or only specific games?
I want to buy another gaming machine, but the next one I buy absolutely must output a high def, 16:9 signal to my TV. If that means I have to wait 3 more years, so be it, but it looks like the systems are coming along quickly so I figured I'd ask. (As a side note, I've been playing GT3 on my buddy's new PS/2 and am officially addicted. If I could play that game in 16:9 I'd be in heaven)
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-Ryan (http://www.ryanwright.com )

 

[ChrisV]

You can play GT3 in 16:9.
Turn this feature on in the options menu.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

X-Box and GameCube will have HD output, and X-Box will have 5.1 output in real-time. Some games for PS2 have 5.1 during FMV sequences (The Bouncer, Final Fantasy X) but not in real-time. PS2 doesn't have HD output, and never will since there is no port for it. It does 16x9 for some games (GT3:A-S, SSX) and the menus for the interface for the console can be viewed in 16x9. The XB and GC will probably have similar features on future games. Even the DC had some 16x9 games.
As a side note, you might want to wait before you decided which console to buy. The XB and GC both do HD output, but that means diddly-squat in the gameplay department. The PS2 has some good games out for it (PSX and PS2) and has a lot of good PS2 games still coming out. The GC is made by Nintendo, which means Metroid, Mario, and Zelda, which are 3 of the best videogame series ever. The XB has games from PS2/GC/PC, plus a few original ones that will end up on other consoles anyway.

 

[BrianB]

I want to buy another gaming machine, but the next one I buy absolutely must output a high def, 16:9 signal to my TV.

Unfortunately, it's not really a hardware issue - the games themselves must be coded to support the highres output & the widescreen output. A lot of PS2 games are now supporting widescreen.
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Nothing In Particular

 

[Peter Loan]

I wouldn't say a lot of PS2 games are supporting 16x9. I'd say less than 5% easily. From personal experience, I know that SSX, FIFA 2001, and GT3 do. I think someone mentioned a couple more and that's about it. I think Sony truly lacked forethought when it made the PS2 non progressive with lackluster support of 16x9. I believe that in Japan, widescreen sets are very popular? Out of all the consoles, I believe that the X-Box will have by far the best HD and 16x9 support due to it being in the specs for the machine. I know it's all about the games but I also like bleeding edge technology=).
[Edited last by Peter Loan on July 24, 2001 at 04:48 PM]
[Edited last by Peter Loan on July 24, 2001 at 04:49 PM]

 

[Adam Nixon]

Sony reportedly has a progressive scan adapter due out sometime around Christmas, and I've been hearing rumors that Madden 2002 will also support 16:9. If you want to go FAR back, Goldeneye on the N64 has a 16:9 selection option, amazing as it may sound.
On paper, nothing touches the Xbox. The amount of technology alone is way ahead of both Sony and the Big N. Unfortunately, I haven't seen anything offered yet that takes advantage of it. With all of that graphical hardware, you'd at least think that SOME games wouldn't look like enhanced PS2 titles.

 

[Ryan Wright]

Thanks for the replies. Wow, GT3 in 16:9... I'm tempted to pick up a PS2 just for that. I think I'll wait, though - I'd really like to have a choice of more than a handful of games that play in 16:9. Maybe I'll steal my buddy's PS2 for a few hours tonight...
I'm going to start monitoring this forum now on a regular basis. Hopefully XBOX or GC will have a nice flood of good 16:9 games. I grew up on Nintendo and IMHO, you can't lose with them. A lot of people bitched about the N64 but we had a blast with 4 player Starfox & Mario Kart. My wife & I bought each other controllers for our wedding gifts to one another and spent most of the "bachelor party" playing those two games with the bridesmaids & groomsmen. Then we didn't use the console for 6 months and I stupidly sold it; now I wish I still had it. Although it wouldn't do me much good in the 16:9 area, it had some emotional value. When N64 was released I preordered it, an extra controller, and both games that were available (Mario 64 and Pilotwings). When I heard that Toys R Us was breaking the release date, I went and picked mine up a full 3 days early. I got the first one from the Toys R Us in Bellingham, Washington - I sat and watched as the manager broke down the freshly arrived pallets. They checked my receipt no less than 3 times.
When I left, there was a small mob outside trying to get their hands on one, but alas, if you didn't preorder months earlier, you didn't get one. I was afraid someone was going to jump me in the parking lot; everyone stopped and pointed as I ran to my car while balancing 5 Nintendo boxes. I tore out of there as fast as I could.
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-Ryan (http://www.ryanwright.com )

 

[Morgan Jolley]

I know many people will doubt this, but the X-Box is outperformed by the GC (GCN, as Nintendo calls it). The GC can use more textures, run smoother, has lower loading times, has more average polys per game (of the ones demoed), and it also is made by Nintendo, which means there won't be hardware or software problems, like there are with some other consoles, plus it will have some of those stellar Nintendo games (Super Smash Bros. Melee, Zelda, Mario, Metroid). Also, a lot of games for N64 did 16x9, like GoldenEye 007 and Perfect Dark, and the DC had some of its own, like Toy Commander. Also, there is a driver update for the PS2 that will update the DVD drivers to do progressive scan output. The GC and X-Box have HD output, and you need to buy the DVD remote (I think it comes with a driver update) to watch DVDs on the X-Box.

 

[Adam Nixon]

Boy, I wish you could provide me a way to verify that. Nintendo has really been conservative about making claims of the GC's ability, in sharp contrast to the PS2's ridiculous-non-applicable capabilities. As far as I know, there hasn't been any solid evidence as to what the Xbox can do -- just hardware theory.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Athttp://www.videogames.com they have a section about the X-Box and a section about the GameCube. I read it, and the GC is capable of displayed more textures at a higher size and a larger resolution than the X-Box. I will admit that the GC is inferior to the X-Box in the audio department, but it graphically outperforms the XB. Also, since there have been no actual X-Box games demoed for the public on complete hardware, nobody can tell what the true polygon count is and at what fps it can be displayed. The GC can run more polys than the X-Box in real-time at 60 fps in HD. I am able to say that because the X-Box games have all had low resolutions, low poly counts, and have been running at low speeds due to the lack of incomplete hardware for them to run on. Some GC games have already been demoed with specs that outperform the demos of all the XB games so far, combine the fact that the GC is supposed to have literally no load times and that the games are guarenteed to be fun, why would you buy an X-Box?

 

[Camp]

Athttp://www.videogames.com they have a section about the X-Box and a section about the GameCube. I read it

Oh, you read a non-technical comparison of each company's propaganda and suddenly you're a hardware expert?
You barely use hardware and graphic terms correctly so don't hate me if I tend to doubt your judgement.
The likely scenario is that PS2, Xbox, and the Cube will probably be so evenly matched that 98% of consumers will not see a difference. Which is why it always goes back to the quality of the games.
BTW, I wouldn't put too much stock in anyone's HD claims until we see actual games on store shelves with that feature enabled. In other words, I'm not convinced this upcoming generation is the generation that will lead the way into HD gaming. I think we'll see the initial inroads with Xbox and Gamecube but it'll be the next generation that really embraces HD.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

While I didn't put the exact links, there are sections for the GC and X-Box where they list the announced launch games, all of the technical aspects, a history behind the console, a list of some developers, and some other information for the 2 consoles. The 2 articles aren't comparing them, but rather just giving information about them. Before you doubt my opinions, you should have read the articles I read so you can see why I have those opinions. From what I have seen, the GC outperforms the XB, but we have yet to see the XB actually in action.

 

[Camp]

Exactly.
You have yet to see them in action. We should all keep that in mind when comparing announced and rumored specs.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Actually, there are games for the GC that have run demos on complete hardware at different times (eg: E3) and they have announced the number of polys in the demo versions, which might actually go up in the final versions. I don't have any actual links or numbers, but I read something about Rogue Leader in a magazine that was pretty exciting.

 

[Sean Oneil]

The GeForce 3 derived GPU in the X-Box is far and away the most powerful consumer grade GPU yet to be released. If you go to http://www.tomshardware.com and look around a bit, you can find some honest to goodness real world numbers and articles on just what the GeForce 3 is capable of doing.
Also keep in mind that the GPU in the X-Box will be even more powerful than any current iteration of the GeForce 3 for PCs. This is because Nvidia (who manufactures the GeForce3) signed a deal of exclusivity with Microsoft which states that the X-Box GPU must be the most powerful chip available from Nvidia until 6 months after the X-Box release.
I think the X-Box is going to blow a lot of minds this November. Look for DOA 3 to be appearing in playable form at X-Box kiosks in retail outlets begining this September/October.
[Edited last by Sean Oneil on July 30, 2001 at 02:58 AM]

 

[BrianB]

Also keep in mind that the GPU in the X-Box will be even more powerful than any current iteration of the GeForce 3 for PCs. This is because Nvidia (who manufactures the GeForce3) signed a deal of exclusivity with Microsoft which states that the X-Box GPU must be the most powerful chip available from Nvidia until 6 months after the X-Box release.

Care to back that up with a suitable press release - it's the first I've heard of it.
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Nothing In Particular

 

[Camp]

I agree...that's news to me.
The difference between Geforce 3 and the Xbox GPU varies upon where you get your info. If you want to believe the Xbox version is more powerful there are certainly specs and sites that can give you that data. Conversely, if you want to believe the two are virtually identical (save for the fact that Xbox is designed for use with NTSC and doesn't have some of the limits DirectX 8 places on the Geforce 3) you can certainly find data to support that as well.
Keep in mind that Nintendo still hasn't given full disclosure on Flipper.
Myself, I could care less. The differences between PS2, Xbox, and GC are going to be so subtle. That, to me, is great news because it'll mean the systems will be judged by the quality of the games released and we can stop all this nutty hardware comparisons.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Since some of us are speculating on the power of future consoles, I figured I should comment.
Of course the X-Box and GC will be more powerful than the PS2. Its a given because of the release time between them. The GC will probably be more powerful than the X-Box, and Nintendo has made sure to give it an extra special feeling. The lack of information on the GC's launch lineup of software for america and japan, combined with the lack of info on some components of the hardware has just made people want to know more about it. Right before the console's release, they will give out all kinds of info and people will be psyched about it and want one. That is a business strategy that doesn't require a $500 million budget. Also, the GC is supposed to have no loading times because of how fast it can move data in and out of memory. Imagine playing SSX or Final Fantasy X with absolutely no loading times. And if there are loading times, by some minor glitch, they would be so small that you wouldn't consider them to be loading times. The X-Box has loading times, I assume. The HDD for the PS2 and XB can be used to reduce loading, but the GC is so fast that it doesn't need a HDD to reduce it. Also, the GC is more of a pure gaming machine than the X-Box (Microsoft pulled out a web browser and chat to make it more of a gaming machine) because it doesn't have a HDD or a built-in modem. Nintendo is going to cash in on the fact that people play games at home with their friends, and then play games online with their friends (the modem will be released soon enough, but nobody knows how much). Compare the values of the 3 consoles: X-Box is $300 for an X-Box with ethernet and a HDD, PS2 is $300 for a PS2/PSX/DVD/CD, and GC is $200 for GC. Since the GC is a full $200 for just the ability to play games and nothing else, that means you are getting a better value for your money. The X-Box has 3 components: ethernet, HDD, X-Box. Pull out the ethernet and the HDD, and maybe it would be $200, maybe even less if they removed every function but the ability to play X-Box games. I don't need to go into detail with the PS2 since its the same case as with the XB, but this just proves that the GC is more worth it for your money.
If you want to speculate about the power of future consoles, hows this: I heard Sony is looking into cell technology for the "PS3." This would mean no loading times, beyond ultra fast calculation, and pretty much blowing everything ever created out of the water. It is just speculation that I read in a magazine (not a cheapy crap one either), but I guess speculation is OK since everyone else is doing it...

 

[Adam Nixon]

Morgan, I'll help you out:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/bus...00/1216551.stm
That is a link to a BBC article on the PS3 and IBM's involvement in design. Allegedly, it's being targeted to be more powerful than IBM's Deep Blue supercomputer but I'll believe that when I see Metal Gear Solid 3 (or 4,5,etc.) running on it.
One more thing for discussion -- I've read rumors that the next GF3 PC card from Nvidia will match or exceed the Xbox's modified GF3 (I'm thinking GF3 Ultra will be its name). However, as powerful as the specs are for the Xbox, why the hell haven't we seen ONE game which fully takes advantage of its hardware? DOA3 looks great, but a machine with those alleged capabilites should boast titles that look a level above its competition. I have yet to see anything scheduled for an upcoming release that looks as good as Rogue Leader, GT3, or Final Fantasy X. If any of you have seen footage of the upcoming Doom 3 engine, you'll understand why these Xbox titles should look better. Just a thought.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

I would like to add that Hideo Kojima will no longer direct MGS games. Key word being DIRECT. He said he will produce, and hopefully he will write the next game or so. Maybe he will make a new game series that is as good as Metal Gear and longer than ZOE.
The problem with the X-Box is that everyone is talking about how powerful it is, but nobody has seen it in action like it should be. All of the games demoed so far are incomplete or running on incomplete hardware. I wonder if they will get enough consoles shipped for the launch. I just read at GameSpot that the GC will have about 1.1 million consoles at launch for America. I doubt X-Box will be able to beat that.