HBO True Detective (2 Viewers)

[Brandon Conway]

I don't see Rust's conclusion at the end as "spiritual" (and definitely not remotely "religious"), but rather as humanist - that despite all the darkness and awfulness in humanity there is something that connects us all, that allows for the light to interrupt and become the focal point, to break through the darkness. Even its just a biologically encoded perception of our species it can bring an optimistic perspective.Sent from my VS920 4G using Tapatalk

 

[Brandon Conway]

Edit: Double post

 

[joshEH]

This was the plot-summary on Wikipedia right before it got deleted:

 

[Brandon Conway]

 

[joshEH]

I'd happily read that guy's Wiki summaries for the other seven episodes.

 

[TravisR]

This was the plot-summary on Wikipedia right before it got deleted:

"the end" is what takes that summary to a genius level.

 

[Sam Posten]

Word:http://io9.com/what-the-hell-kind-of-ending-was-that-true-detective-1540629251

 

[Josh Dial]

In the grand tradition of LOST and Battlestar Galactica, this seems to be another show where the approval of the finale is split 50/50 between love and hate. Interestingly, critiques for all three shows seem to fall in the same general category.

Also, I have to note that many of the website critiques I've read fail to acknowledge the show's (really, Rust's) tracking with Nietzsche and Schopenhauer, and how the finale clearly fits into their philosophies. While I don't wish to deny someone their interpretation, I think missing the Nietzsche/Schopenhauer link is a pretty big miss (I'm looking at i09 here, among others). To have a show so greatly pay homage to a specific school of philosophy (and other writers, but that's another topic), but to then refuse to give a charitable viewing of the finale in the light of that view is unfortunate.

For me, the ending is a clear homage to the Übermensch (among other things).

Here's an interesting exit interview with Nic Pizzolatto. While he clearly doesn't want to commit the moral sin of explaining everything to the audience, I think his response to the second question (at the bottom of the first page) is particularly informative.

 

[MarkMel]

I liked the ending. Sure is wasn't as elaborate as some of the theories thought it was going to be but it was still good.

And as Rust said, we didn't get them all. He knows there was way more involved in that craziness and they didn't get all of them.

If you look at his light and dark speech, that ties in with that. There will always be darkness, (bad guys) but the light (cops) will keep breaking through. In it's simplest, like the classic black hat/white hat western.

Now you could extrapolate and then start to tie that into religion if you want good/evil or God/Devil and go from there. But you don't have to.

The ending also allows for the continuation of the story in the next season. I had also thought that Woody and Matt had said that this will be a 1 season thing for them, but the plot line could continue with other actors. I kind of hope that if the show continues, they find another mystery/plotline.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I think next year they'll be going in a different direction in another part of the country with new detectives.

 

[Sam Posten]

What was more interesting to me is that both these men are left in a place of deliverance, a place where even Cohle might be able to acknowledge the possibility of grace in the world.

Theism. The atheist was wrong and accepts a higher power exists. Case closed.

I don't mean that in a religious sense. Where we leave Cohle, this man hasn't made a 180 change or anything like that. He's moved maybe 5 degrees on the meter, but the optimistic metaphor he makes at the end, it's not sentimental; it's purely based on physics.

Bzzzzzzt. Not buying it. Even if he DOES genuinely believe that the vast majority of his audience takes it as a religious experience as presented. Physics? Hogwash.

And yet he protests too much. I think he does. I would refrain from some of the questions about some of Cohle's psychology and beliefs. And this is a necessary part of the format, but it felt that chapters of a book are being reviewed before the whole book has been revealed. I don't think Cohle is ever lying. I just think he wants that ultimate nullity to be true in the way that a born again Christian might want the transubstantiation of Christ to be true, right? It's the kind of thing where if you know this, then you don't have to go around saying it all the time, do you?

spoiler for religious content:

Spoiler

Spoken like a true religious devotee who has no idea how an antheist really thinks of the world. I don't think he's being genuine here or he is REALLY off on the subject. Quite clearly there ARE atheists who want to spread the word about the "Nullity"

 

[ScottH]

I might be the only one kind of on the fence about the finale. I didn't mind how the case was wrapped up and that they didn't get the church people that helped cover it all up. I didn't mind the closing sequence either. I think my biggest beef was just that it seemed like all those clues they dropped on us throughout the season ultimately ended up being meaningless.

Theism. The atheist was wrong and accepts a higher power exists. Case closed.

I didn't see it that way at all.

 

[TravisR]

I didn't see it that way at all.

I can see how people have interpreted it as such but me neither. I've read virtually nothing about this show so I don't 'pollute' my own viewing and thoughts with what others (even the writer or cast) think or with interesting yet ultimately silly theories but I'd be curious if Nic Pizzolatto has commented on the topic. He had to know that it would be a highly debated element.

EDIT: I found an interview over at Entertainment Weekly

[EW] You said there was no conversion in the story. But was Cohle suggesting he now believes in some kind of afterlife when he told Hart about his near death experience?

[Pizzolatto] It’s not a belief – he’s talking about an experience. And he’s not talking about a reconciliation with loved ones after death: If you listen to what he says, he says, ‘I was gone. There was no me. Just love… and then I woke up.’ That line is significant to the whole series: “And then I woke up.” The only thing like a conversion that he has is when he says, “You’re looking at it wrong. To me, the light is winning.” And that doesn’t describe a conversion to me as much as it describes a broadening of perspective. The man who once said there is no light at the end of the tunnel is now saying there might be order to this. I don’t think it says anything more than: Pick your stories carefully.

http://popwatch.ew.com/2014/03/10/true-detective-post-mortem-creator-nic-pizzoletto-on-happy-endings-season-2-and-the-future-of-cohle-and-hart/

 

[Sam Posten]

He wants to have his cake and eat it too. As I said I don't buy it and I find it entirely disingenuous. I've said my piece on it and anything further is probably going too close to P&R. Ultimately I found the final fifteen minutes a total failure that for me, put a huge stain on the season, but meh so what, there were still 7 and 3/4 hours of great TV before that happened. I get that some people like the ending and I don't want to take that away from any of you. Good on you and keep thinking that. Carry on.

 

[Walter Kittel]

Ultimately I found the final fifteen minutes a total failure that for me, put a huge stain on the season, but meh so what, there were still 7 and 3/4 hours of great TV before that happened. I get that some people like the ending and I don't want to take that away from any of you. Good on you and keep thinking that. Carry on.

While I disagree with your opinion of the final episode of True Detective (I enjoyed it quite a bit and thought it did a fine job of wrapping up the first season) as someone who invested six years in the series Lost and absolutely hated the two hour finale - I get where you are coming from.

- Walter.

 

[mike caronia]

Don't worry Sam, the two detectives who were doing the interviews are going to be back next season and take down the rest of 'em!

 

[Sam Posten]

If you want a treat, go on twitter and search for #TrueDetectiveSeason2, the pairings there are awesome.Another good wrap up, with more damning (heh) evidence that it's Theistic:

Why is the finale called “Form and Void”?It’s a reference to Genesis 1:2:And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.This also ties back to Rust’s closing speech. Rust reminds Marty, “Once there was only dark. You ask me, the light’s winning.” It isn’t until the following verse that God says, “Let there be light.”

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2014/03/10/true_detective_faq_the_hbo_series_finale_s_biggest_questions_answered.html

 

[Hanson]

I agree with Sam (which isn't something I write every day ) -- it was quite disappointing to set up Rust as an Atheist's Atheist and then pull the rug out by "moving the needle a little". No, they didn't imbue Rust's revelation with a commonly held theist name, but it is clearly an acceptance of a divinity and is therefore theist. It's too bad, as it slides back into the mentality that every atheist is just someone who will eventually find god. Feh.

 

[Josh Dial]

I agree with Sam (which isn't something I write every day ) -- it was quite disappointing to set up Rust as an Atheist's Atheist and then pull the rug out by "moving the needle a little". No, they didn't imbue Rust's revelation with a commonly held theist name, but it is clearly an acceptance of a divinity and is therefore theist. It's too bad, as it slides back into the mentality that every atheist is just someone who will eventually find god. Feh.

I strongly disagree with Hanson (which is something I don't write...ever?). The finale is so plainly existential nihilism/pessimism, as influenced by Nietzsche and Schopenhauer, that to see any close relationship with theism is objectively wrong. To then effectively deny the assertions of the show's creator is just strange (and let's not go down the whole path of Barthes' "Death of the Author").

 

[ScottH]

To then effectively deny the assertions of the show's creator is just strange

That's exactly what I was thinking (and I'm glad you posted it before I did).