Has Robert De Niro "Retired?" (1 Viewer)

[Louis C]

Good thread. "Midnight Run" is my favorite Di Niro comedy. I enjoyed his performances in "Meet the Parents" and "Meet the Fockers".

It certainly wasn't Ben Stiller that attracted me to those films.

Look at Gene Hackman and the body of work he's done. He's done some real stinkers (hard not to when you're in that many films), but it doesn't diminish his reputation as a top ranked actor. Same goes for Mr. Tribeca.

 

[Seth Paxton]

And Nicholson has had a nice second (or tenth) wind making the most out of emphasizing his adjustments. It can and is being done.


George,

After hearing the story of how Steve Martin refused to do the Cheaper by the Dozen project till the script was fixed, only to have a change of heart the second he was offered more money than he'd ever been paid for a job, I stand a firm believer in the sell-out theory with actors.

The problem in defending De Niro here is that generally these aren't clever comedies. At best they're a cute premises, a twist or play on his typecast image. This isn't Bill Murray doing Wes Anderson stuff here. (or Gene Hackman for that matter since he was mentioned)

And his dramas have become fewer and honestly weaker efforts.


This leads IMO to a debate between sell-out/retired or just-lost-it. I can't believe this actor just lost it, so I strongly agree with Chris' "retirement" angle. He's done it, now he's getting paid and keeping busy, like a retiree working as a Wal-Mart greeter.

There are "paycheck jobs" in H'wood and probably every moderate star is doing them, probably more so once they make it big in the critical circles/awards.

I can't fault them for it, but I don't have to like it either.

 

[george kaplan]

Seth,

I haven't heard the Steve Martin story before, but if it's true, that might make Steve Martin a sellout in that case. I don't have a problem with calling someone a sellout who goes against their principles for money, but to assume that De Niro or anyone else is doing comedies just for the money, and is violating some self-integrity requires assumptions about them that I am unwilling to make without further proof. And how do we know that Tom Hanks wasn't a sellout for doing Philadelphia? Maybe he only did that for the money. But no one ever assumes that someone doing a drama is selling out, only someone doing a comedy. That's my point.

But that's just a matter of taste. I HATE Bill Murray in Wes Anderson stuff. Those are atrocious films in my opinion. I find Meet the Parents and Analyze This infinitely funnier and better than Rushmore or the Royal Tennenbaums, two pretentious films I'd rather poke my eyes out than ever see again. And speaking of Bill Murray, how come he isn't a sellout for playing Polonius in Hamlet? Maybe he just did it for the money.

 

[Joe Karlosi]

I've enjoyed DeNiro as a comedian for the most part but feel he'd better pass on the next "MEET THE..." sequel if he doesn't want to become branded. It's great that younger viewers are getting familiar with him through his comedies with Ben Stiller, but if he's not careful there's a possibility that it will be tough to see any of his older movies without laughing unintentionally at some of his serious facial expressions. Much in the same way it's impossible to watch Leslie Nielsen in any of his early "straight" roles (did you ever see Nielsen in his "serious" screen tests for BEN HUR? They're unintentinally hilarious).

EDITED TO ADD: After I wrote this I went to the movies and saw the upcoming trailer for HIDE AND SEEK. DeNiro looks good in this.

 

[Holadem]

George, I am well aware that your opinions regarding the lack of respect for comedies. Well, I never said or implied that Deniro sold out because he was doing comedy rather than drama. While comedy is by far NOT my favorite genre, there is some excellent stuff out there.

As a matter of fact, I prefer his comedies (I love Analyse This and like both Fockers) to the crappy looking thrillers he has done lately. No I haven't seen them, but they look so derivative and by the numbers that I won't bother. Even The Score was pretty good, but the experienced-burglar-on-his-last-job character is SO old... What's next, the cop whose partner gets shot a week before his retirement? :rolleyes

--
H

 

[Seth Paxton]

Actually I think there are sell-outs in big budget crap dramas too. However, I think its the fact that drama are about critical acclaim more than money that causes them to be viewed as vehicles for serious efforts.

However, many thrillers, sci-fi, horror, crime and other types of dramas are terrible and feature people who you can only assume either have bad agents or needed the money.


Doing a dud once in awhile is either a mistake or getting paid. Doing a bunch in a row is either terrible taste (or agent with bad taste) or selling out.


Plus there is such a thing as the types of comedy. I don't expect everyone to like the dry humor of Anderson, but at least its different and interesting in its attempt. De Niro has been working the high-concept, one-gag schtick comedies for some time now.

I'm not against him doing comedy, or even a couple of films like that. But when it becomes a trend I think Chris Farmer is on to something.

 

[Mike Broadman]

Because William Shakespeare was a genius, and most modern popular cinema comedy writers/directors are not.

I may enjoy a comedic film, but they are simply not on the same level of artistic merit as the greatest English of all time.

That's not to say that being a comedy or not automatically means something will or won't be of high quality, but we can also enjoy films that are cheaply done and not really that great but we enjoy anyway.

And yes, in a more objective sense, classical music is "better" than rock 'n' roll, because it takes a hell of a lot more skill, sensitivity, training and knowledge to compose a Mozart's 40th Symphany than to write Blitzkreig Bop. Just because I like both doesn't mean I can't recognise this.

 

[george kaplan]

Actually the word you're looking for is subjective. And thanks for proving my point.

 

[Mike Broadman]

I used the word I wanted to use, thank you.

 

[george kaplan]

Well in that case you're just simply wrong. There is NO objective sense in which classical music is greater or better than rock & roll. Is a particular Beethoven symphony better than a particular Sex Pistols song? Maybe. But I could easily name a Beatles song greater than a particular Miaskovsky symphony. Nothing in the classical music arena itself is better than the rock music arena. Now you can have a different opinion, but it's just that - a subjective opinion, not something objective that could be proven.

 

[dany]

I guess everybody forgot Ronin.

 

[Michael Elliott]

Perhaps the problem is that millions are going to see MEET THE PARENTS and ANALYZE THIS when they should be seeking out THIS BOY'S LIFE or A BRONX TALE.

 

[george kaplan]

Why? Maybe the problem is that some people simply think Meet the Parents and Analyze This are great films, every bit as good as This Boy's Life or A Bronx Tale.

 

[Michael Elliott]

I know people who think WAYNE'S WORLD is better than RAGING BULL. Our opinions on what's better really isn't the issue.

I've enjoyed Robert DeNiro's "comedies" as much as anyone else. However, if someone thinks he should stick to drama then I usually bring up recent films like A BRONX TALE or THIS BOY'S LIFE. When we enter the "DeNiro is done" talk, most people point to the comedies but when some of these dramas are brought up, it appears no one has seen them.

Next to Brando I'd say DeNiro is my favorite actor and I've defended him on these threads throughout the past four or five years. Brando got burned out after LAST TANGO IN PARIS so perhaps DeNiro is burned out and simply wants to do easier work. I'm not going to fault him for that or fault him for making cash.

DeNiro might not be the DeNiro of 73-80 but how many actors in history has had such a stretch? Not too many so I don't see the point in people getting upset that DeNiro hasn't matched his performances from TAXI DRIVER or RAGING BULL.

This debate could go back to the "small" vs "mainstream" films. I enjoyed MEET THE PARENTS and ANALYZE THIS but I agree they are safe films. For some reason, Nicholson is doing safe work but no one really says too much about it. It seems both actors are having a good time having fun with this stuff so I see no reason to complain.

However, if people think DeNiro has been washed up over the past ten years due to these comedies, I'd certainly suggest they watch something else. There are many underrated gems from the 80's and 90's that no one ever talks about. MAD DOG AND GLORY is a comedy that's never really gotten any respect. Even here, DeNiro is getting laughs playing against his own image. Much like what he's doing in PARENTS.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Not me. That was that last great effort IMO.

It was right after that with Flawless that it began. Since then only the Score was reasonable De Niro.

Now, if he had simply intermixed Meet the Parents and Analyze This with some quality films, or if he had done comedies on par with stuff by the Coens or Wes Anderson (sorry George, a lot of people find him very funny) then I would have a different view.

But you put me through Showtime, 15 Minutes, Rocky and Bullwinkle, Flawless in the meantime and you aren't getting it done anymore. To top it off he dropped Analyze That on us which didn't receive the same joyous response that the first film did.

I don't mind him doing comedy, I mind him doing lots of very unchallenging work. Maybe I don't even mind, as long as no one minds me agreeing with the idea that he is "working retired" now.

 

[Anthony Neilson]

Funnily enough, just after I read this thread, I turned on the TV and there was Bobby, advertising American Express !

I don't feel that judgemental about what DeNiro's up to, but the simple fact is that the guy's been in several of the greatest films of all time. It's hard not to be disappointed by his choices in recent times. He must get better scripts than the ones he chooses to do. I'd love to see him do a real quality comeback - a one/two punch like Brando with THE GODFATHER and LAST TANGO IN PARIS or Kietel with RESERVOIR DOGS and BAD LIEUTENANT.

 

[MatthewLouwrens]

From the IMDb, 20 January 2005 Hope it's not true. I just don't see what the point would be.

 

[Holadem]

Well there. If this isn't a move to reboost his (artistic) career by returning to sure thing, I don't know what is.

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H

 

[Ocean Phoenix]

While Scorsese is a great director and De Niro is a great actor, I doubt they can make a great movie from that premise. A Taxi Driver sequel is completely unnecessary and could potentially tarnish the legacy of its predecessor. I hate when amazing directors talk about going back to the stories/franchises they did earlier in their careers and adding to them with new movies. They should just show some courage and maturity and move on to new stories. I hope Sam Raimi never does another Evil Dead movie, and I'm glad Ridley Scott recently said he wouldn't do another Alien movie. It's cowardly and horribly uncreative to go back to one's old movies for a premise.

 

[David James]

Why doesn't Woody Allen make funny movies anymore? Don't you just hate it people have the audacity to behave in ways inconsistent with our expectations.