GR or Adire? (1 Viewer)

[Greg Monfort]

>That is what I thought about the 3ohm rating also, but I did notice the 3ohm rating is for the (front) only and so is the 4ohm rating. The all channel rating is 6ohm. Maybe I'll just risk it.
====
True, though I view it as how much time will all channels be driven simultaneously and why even list a 3/4ohm dynamic headroom rating if it didn't have a 'stiff' enough power supply to handle the occasional difficult load? Add the fact that historically, Onkyo builds bullet proof power supplies, it seems a reasonable risk.

Still, DR has to know his own speakers, so if he thinks they'll present too tough a load for that particular receiver in a multi-channel system........

GM

 

[Chris Tsutsui]

This Saturday night you should get a few reviews posted.. I'll remind Anthony to make a good comparison as well.

I'm bringing my acoustic panels for the room as well so well hear more of the speakers and less of da room.

 

[Brian Tatnall]

Chris,

That is awesome. I look forward to the review. Will you be taking any measurements also?

Brian

 

[Chris Tsutsui]

What type of measurements would you be interested in?

Basic SPL from different distances and off axis.

How loud each one gets before music sounds compressed

What is the frequency response (in-room).

Actually those would be very nice to have, I don't know if I'll have the time though. Maybe somebody will have an RTA there.

 

[Brian Tatnall]

Those are exactly the type of measurements I was thinking of

SPL at 10 feet would be really nice to have along with frequency response.

An RTA would be very nice indeed.

You still have the best speaker measurements even without that stuff though.

What are all the speakers that are going to be there?

 

[Gary Joe]

Here's what Adire had to say about the 3 way's their developing:

"Gary,

Thanks for the e-mail! The kits are designed and ready to go; we're waiting on receiving the last few crossover parts (inductors were backordered from Solen), and then we can start selling and shipping them.

Thanks again,

Adire Tech Support"


I then inquired about pricing:


"Hi Gary,

I'll have to get back to you on pricing. I do know that they will be less expensive then the Kit 281's though.

Thank you,

Adire Tech Support"

 

[Brian Tatnall]

WOW!

There is a lot happening right now with these two companies.

GR Research:
Getting the new M130/16's in for the new A/V-3 floorstanding and A/V-3C sealed.

Also the new GR-T2 is coming out with the GR-T6 version.

A/V-3 kit is $329.

Danny,
When is the GR-T2 going to be in any of the A/V line?

Adire:

New three way coming. Also the Exodus line of speakers that are XBL^2.

Adire three way less than $369. Come on 8ohm

With all this I think I'm going to need to wait at least a little while for things to release so I'm not outdated by the time I build.

 

[Brian Tatnall]

Danny,

I noticed over at Harmonic Discord that the A/V-1+'s had just been to Chicago a few months ago too bad I missed to by such little time. Are theranman and Jackman thinking about getting them again or anything? If they are I should be checking up on the forum over there.

Thanks,
Brian

 

[Brian Bunge]

Brian,

I seriously doubt that Randy (theranman) will be getting the A/V-1+'s (now A/V-2's) any time soon. He's a good buddy of mine so I think I can speak for him pretty confidently by saying I think he considers them too big for his personal tastes. Size and performance are his two biggest criteria and he's hoping to find the performance he's looking for in a smaller package.

 

[Brian Tatnall]

Thanks Brian.

He talked about auditioning something else from GR on the other forum.

I have opinions of each of the products, but would some of you do if it was your money?

Thanks

 

[Michael R Price]

An Adire "2851" kit at under $369? I would think it would be up in the $400-500 range. Unless they reduced the cost of the AV8, which is a serious woofer (and it's overpriced probably just because 99% of them are sold as part of 281 kits with big discounts).

That one should sound great, but I'd be more excited about the XBL speakers.

Brian, do you mean "what would we do if it was our money?" If I was building speakers now, I would probably have done HE12.1s because they would save me from so much trouble with amplifiers to get close to the sound I want. But if I was you and it was my money (heh...) I would wait a little bit for more details... and deciding what speaker to buy is mainly a question of priorities, since for their respective purposes they are all great. Although, knowing Adire, sometimes a short wait can grow a little longer.

 

[Danny Richie]

Danny, When is the GR-T2 going to be in any of the A/V line?

Late July to early August if all goes as planned.

theranman and Jackman auditioned the Criterion up there.

 

[Chris Tsutsui]

Just got back from the DIY 2003 Bass liste meeting. I had a great time there and got to chat with some serious audiophiles.

There were about 10-15 people who got to demo the Kit281s vs the AV-3s. They were powered by the same high end BEEFY solid state amp and CD player, and both positioned the same. There were many agreements with the way they sounded and it all came down to taste in the end.

The Kit281s (said to be preferred over the HE12.1s) have a forward presentation. A hint of grain in the highs that could easily be ignored. There was a slight boom in the bass which a few people agreed that it was cabinet resonance. One audiophile suggested to plug a port, but we left it alone. The Kit281s sounded fairly effortless in the big room and had depth. The sound reminded me of Anthony's ushers a bit in that they would sound good for rock music and movies and not "just" jazz.

The AV-3s did a remarkable job at producing vocals with a very realistic and natural midrange. The mids exceled vs the Kit281s while one guy noticed a slight hump around 100hz. This was very subtle compared to the kit281s which had a bigger bass hump during the demo. The highs are on the laid back side, one audiophile mentioned that the tweeter didn't feel like it extended to 20khz. Someone also mentioned that the Av3s had a better off axis response than the Kit281s, and how they were both designed with different crossover points. I felt the 281s had a forward "studio" feel, while the AV-3s had a smoother pleasing sound. Great for jazz and instruments, but not so great at cranking out heavy metal. The woofers/bass on the AV-3s didn't seemed to lose some detail at higher volumes to me but never were they fatiguing. The Kit281s, because of the more forward presentation, gave ear fatigue to the guy sitting next to me. He said it was something in the midrange that he could listen to.

Were talking very critical listeners at this meet, some of them professional designers, and others that are just serious enthusiasts.

If I may add, that I recall that a few people preferred the AV-3s, while some said it is simply a matter of taste and can't decide. I found it hard to decide as well since they are 2 different flavors. :frowning:

I love the type of sound the Kit281s produce, and how they can play loud and clean, but the vocal on the AV-3s are pretty hard to pass up on. I wish the highs on the AV-3s were a bit more forward and then it would be an easy decision. If I was choosing a home theater speaker, I'd pick the Kit281s. If it's a 2 channel speaker for musical enjoyment I'd get the AV series.

Oh and the AV8 cones don't look curvilinear to me. I got some compliments on how the AV-3s sounded which should be directed to Danny. Your AV-1s were also there, and I think overall they were a hit. I definitly liked them better than some of the other DIY speakers there.

One speaker of them all stood out the most though...

I have to crown the Linkwitz Lab Dipole Phoenix and Peerless Dipole 12" subwoofer as the best full range speaker there. It was quite possibly the best setup I've ever heard.

The only speaker there with a sounstage and depth that could be mistaken for live. The speakers were SOOO transparant, that I couldn't tell what driver was working. The sound was so easy on the ears, dynamics were incredible, and the speakers literally sounded like they had no "boxy" sound. Some of the tracks I herad on it were just magical. I used to be neutral towards dipoles like Martin logans, but the phoenix has made me a dipole lover.

So I guess that makes me a bass reflex, dipole, horn, and line array lover now.

It just blew the other custom dipole (Raven R2/Focal + DPL12) dipole out of the water. The only thing I really loved about that other design was the highs. I'm a big fan of the Raven R2 now.

Sorry if I went off topic.. I suggest that you wait on the Kit281 and AV until at least the next generation. Boy I never knew what I was missing in the lower budget kits until today.

 

[Michael R Price]

Chris thanks for the comments and I hope you had a lot of fun. Your impressions are similar to what I was expecting.

BTW, it's the AV5 midrange used in the "large center channel" and hopefully the upcoming 3-way tower, that is a curvilinear cone. The AV8 midwoofer is not supposed to be. And there was a bass hump? Well, good thing I overdamped my speakers to -10db at tuning. The amount of bass depends heavily on placement and almost as heavily on the amplifier.

I can see why you like the Phoenix... but don't the drivers cost way, way more than the other kits? You might as well make a RD75 based line array! I wish for that "different realm of quality" sound, too. I'm not sure which type of exotic speaker (dipoles vs. horns) has the right tradeoffs for me, though.

 

[Dan Wesnor]

The forwardness that you here with the Kit 281's is the 6dB bump at 2kHz which I mentioned before. You can see it plainly if you look at the AV-8 graph on Adire's page. Dan knocked it down a bit in the crossover, but it's a resonance which hangs in the air even if you lower its magnitude.

I tried a 3-way with the AV-8, but no matter what I did with it, it had a rumbly sound that isn't found in other 8" woofers in the same price range.

 

[Brian Tatnall]

Micheal,

The new Adire 3 way could be "851" instead of "2851" which would explain the lower price and probably make more sense for a three way that is DIY. It wouldn't directly match the LCC, but I don't see how they can do the "2851" for cheaper than the current 281 unless they just slash prices completely.

Chris,

I don't know if that made the decision any easier, but thank you very much. I like that you could say good things about both speakers so that I can be more confident either choice won't leave me extremely dissapointed.

I listen to a lot of rock and hip hop and not so much jazz. The not just jazz speakers are ones I tend to enjoy also.

Do you think something like blackhole 5 could be put in the Adire kit to get rid of the cabinet resonance in the bass?

I think I'm going to take your advice and wait for the next generation.

 

[bruin]

Can anyone say anything about Tony's Ushers? I had to leave before the Ushers were played.

 

[Jonathan_D]

I wish the highs on the AV-3s were a bit more forward and then it would be an easy decision.

I don't know the crossover topography of this system, but it seems like it shouldn't be too difficult to modify the high pass a bit to bring the highs "forward". Danny would probably be happy to recommend some mods to make this an "easy decision"!

 

[Michael R Price]

Dan,

There's a rumbly sound? Do you mean some sort of harmonic distortion, or cabinet resonance, or a frequency response problem, or something? If such a thing exists, I'd like to fix it if possible in my speakers. I have noticed the Kit281s bring out a "texture" in the bass that I haven't heard in my limited experience, but I thought that was good, not a defect.

Speaking of defects, I found I had to *really* mess with the woofers (meaning heavy low bass for a long time) to get them to really break in and sound smooth. The break-in time on the AV8 is so absurd (playing bass tones for awhile improved the sound even though I'd had the speakers for 6 months) that it could be called defective. I just think it's important to say that once the speaker is truly broken in, the midrange problem is small enough for some people not to worry about it. After all, lots of commercial speakers have similar breakup issues, and many don't have as steep a crossover as the 281. In the measurements by Joe D'Appolito, the breakup mode does not create a noticeable peak in the overall frequency response.

Brian,

I agree that your decision is compounded by the voicing of the GR speakers and your type of music. You could ask Danny R about a crossover mod to bring up the treble, or *gasp* use a tone control. Or, you could wait for some more interesting speakers.

 

[Brian Bunge]

Danny has said in the past that it would be easy to modify the tweeter's response to tip it up slightly and that he would be willing to do that if a customer wanted it. Als, we compared our pair of A/V-1+'s to a pair of Paradigm Studio 100's, which have metal dome tweeters, and only noticed that 100's were slightly brighter than the A/V-1+'s.